ADHD Doesn't Go Away

I wonder. Somewhat rhetorical question... How many of those that posted in this thread who have been diagnosed with AD/HD, (who do not take medication for it) found that it often takes 30 minutes to 2 hours or more to post a simple multiple paragraph response addressing certain points, not including researching links to back up or refute claims?

reply to post by nomnom


Sorry.. your video is just flawed.

I agree that people are so quick to push drugs as a solution.

But to say that drugs are never a solution? Is just as dangerous as always pushing them. Probably more so.

It's un-realistic to compare pre-1950s psychiatry to today, since psychiatry had no foundation in research then. The research that allowed proper treatments.

reply to post by Philippines

However, it is not natural to take any medication/pills at all. They should not be needed if you eat properly and exercise.

Got to disagree with you here. Think of a diabetic....if they don't take insulin, they will die.

There are a lot of medications that people do need.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
reply to post by Philippines

 

However, it is not natural to take any medication/pills at all. They should not be needed if you eat properly and exercise.

Got to disagree with you here. Think of a diabetic....if they don't take insulin, they will die.

There are a lot of medications that people do need.

Yeah, and they didn't become a diabetic through proper diet and exercise.

They became diabetic through diet mostly. Humans aren't meant to eat grain every day, nonetheless GMO grain and other poisoned food/water.

Even then, grains back in the day were not GMO, dwarf wheat, and other forms of commercialized monocropping. Then bring in refined/bleached/fortified flours/grains used today and it's no wonder diet is why people are messed up in the West....

Combined with all the other pollutions / chemicals inhaled / ingested / vaccinated on a daily basis.

It's like being poisoned and told everything is fine, it's for your health.

I have seen people in their 80s+ walking around mountains (steep ones) carrying 20+ kilos up and down. They live naturally and avoid chemicals. Maybe they're right.

reply to post by smyleegrl


ADHD actually is diet, pollution and chemically induced. I know first hand as I have it as does my grown daughter and grandson.

It's an absolute necessity we all eat whole, organic, non-processed foods without sugar, including artificial sweeteners and dyes. Just real, organic food that you cook. We can absolutely 100% control it this way. The minute we eat anything processed or sugary, it's terrible. My grandson becomes a different person. I cannot even eat bad food or my hands swell and my mind gets foggy and irritable. Same with my daughter.

Without diet modification and exercise, it's out of control. With the above, and with tricks we do to control it, we actually excel well above others. What we have to do is make sure we don't make hasty life decisions same day we think of them. We wait a day or two. We that the the very fast thought process and work on things that add positively to our lives. I've been able to perfect my racing thoughts into a pro rather than a con with this approach and I make the ADHD work really well for me, same with my daughter and grandson. All of us as a result skipped a few grades. I was the youngest executive in my field and my daughter graduated at 16 yrs old.

So, without knowing what a tremendous impact eating right and exercising can do for people, not just those with ADHD, it would be hard to live with, but I think it's been a huge blessing as I can do 10 things at once and I'm able to finish them all. I've trained myself to do this and anyone else with ADHD can do the same.

reply to post by Philippines


Thank you for debating this in a ration context, firstly.

Natural is an incredibly nebulous word. I think that the only way we can define the word natural in an empirical context is to qualify it with the term processed.
It might not be natural to eat anything that is processed, or take anything that is processed, but where do you draw the line.

Cooking is a process and because of cooking meat we gain the ability to more readily digest protein.
Do you want to eat raw meat?

Aspirin is made from willow bark and it has been shown to drastically decrease the likelihood of heart disease if taken in small doses regularly because it thins the blood reducing clots and plaque build up in arteries.

The natural debate can also be taken in the context of allopathic versus homeopathic medicine.
I personally have been in a life threatening traumatic motorcycle wreck and if it were not for the level one trauma care I received that is the direct result of allopathic medicine, then I would be dead.
If they had just bandaged me up and fed me a macrobiotic diet, which is still processed to a certain degree by the way, then I would have surely died.

We are in a time where of which there is no historical parallel, so it is easy to criticize things that seem out of place, but the empirical data backs up the use of stimulant medication for treating the symptoms associated with ADHD.
Here are definitions for the terms allopathic and homeopathic for those who do not know what I am talking about.

Allopathic medicine is an expression commonly used by homeopaths and proponents of other forms of alternative medicine to refer to mainstream medical use of pharmacologically active agents or physical interventions to treat or suppress symptoms or pathophysiologic processes of diseases or conditions.

link to source

Homeopathy is a system of alternative medicine originated in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, based on his doctrine of similia similibus curentur ("like cures like"), according to which a substance that causes the symptoms of a disease in healthy people will cure similar symptoms in sick people.

link to source

It is interesting to note that the entrance in wikipedia goes on to say this...

Scientific research has found homeopathic remedies ineffective and their postulated mechanisms of action implausible. The scientific community regards homeopathy as a sham; the American Medical Association considers homeopathy to be quackery, and homeopathic remedies have been criticized as unethical.

It seems like empirical science does not back up the idea that "natural" is good in this case, but that is because "natural" is effectively impossible to define universally.

reply to post by curiouswa

ADHD actually is diet, pollution and chemically induced. I know first hand as I have it as does my grown daughter and grandson.

Actually... You know that whatever was causing your daughter and grandson to be symptomatic was diet, pollution and chemically induced.

You cannot state this universally and the research also does not back you up.

I applaud you on finding a solution for your family, but it is irresponsible to tell other people that your anecdotal evidence validates your belief.
This is why science and research exists.

reply to post by smyleegrl

Got to disagree with you here. Think of a diabetic....if they don't take insulin, they will die.

There are a lot of medications that people do need.

Agreed 100%. I really tire of seeing "big pharma" get blamed for everything.

People want to blame them for every ill in society, but yet they appreciate the fact that small pox and polio have been eradicated.
Or they appreciate the antibiotics that have probably saved their life without them knowing it at some point in their existence.
Hell... At the very least imagine fighting a fever with no fever reducing agents.

Yes... Pharmaceutical companies have engaged in less than ethical behaviors.
But that is the result of them being a corporation under US commerce code.
They are mandated to produce the largest profit for their shareholders.
It seems to me that the rage toward them is misdirected.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Back in school, teacher would be up there giving her lectures and whatnot. I would be off in lala land not paying attention. I guess that's what there claiming ADHD is nowadays, kids who can't pay attention and follow orders like machines and who are overly hyper. News flash majority of all kids are hyper because they have tons of energy and want to explore the world.

I was a good student too I got A's and B's and never paid attention really. If you ask me I don't think ADHD even exists, its just an excuse to shove pills down your child's throat.

Originally posted by nomnom

Not saying that people don't have issues. We all do. I have problems filtering out sensory information and it can get overwhelming. I do not this ADHD is a legitimate disease. I think each case is individuated, and trying to shove speed down their throat is not the answer. Find out why the brain seems to be misfiring, else adapt in another way. Often times when we seem to be at a disadvantage, it also brings advantages. No gift without curse kinda deal.

I am also one of those folks who was diagnosed late. 37 now, and I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was about 32. I honestly could not say whether it's a real thing, either. What I can say, though, is that the medication approach, for me, has had the effect of taking the writhing mass of worms that was my thought process, and neatly arranged them in order of length.

I do know for sure that all people are different. Some have laser-sharp focus, but lose out on the big picture. Some see everything going on, and can draw correlations between seemingly unrelated things... but could not read an entire textbook even when given a ten-year timeline. There's really no normal. Everyone has a different level of attention. Some of us just get bored much faster, and move on to other stuff.

I think a gift that is overlooked in ADHD is the ability (need?) to explore all the little side-paths. I think that one is a great benefit of this thing. I can't study... and can't memorize things... but when I analyze something, it stays analyzed.

I rocked exams through my entire school life, but did the barest minimum of homework. My notes from college look like scrapbooks upon scrapbooks of doodles, but based on those doodles, I could remember what we discussed in class each day, and how the related concepts work.

I realized years later that it all stemmed from the same place, and was my own coping mechanism for an inability to focus on one thing. Don't just remember the calculations, or the dates, or the chemical interactions... Pay attention until you understand it, and you'll never need to study it again.

Originally posted by nomnom

Originally posted by kyviecaldges

I am not surprised at your belief. It is human nature to want to discredit that which we do not understand.

I understand it better than you realize. Please don't talk down to me like this. It's just arrogant.

But what do you say to the many people who receive relief and life improvement from these medications?
Do you deny them access because you simply lack the empathy to truly understand their predicament?

Look, people get depressed, and they may have attention difficulties. I'm not going to say that some don't generally have issues. I'm saying that pumping them up with speed is ridiculous, and the procedure for issuing these drugs is disgusting, and highly unethical.

You realize how many normal kids take speed for high school or college? What are you going to tell them? That they have ADHD?

I want evidence that speed is the best way to improve their performance. I want to know exactly WHY their frontal cortex may be messed up.

Are you aware that a chunk of people with this so-called ADHD, get well with simple diet changes? Are you aware how sleep deprivation may affect the frontal lobe? Do you know what percentage of people with ADHD have sleep issues? Why are they having sleep issues?

The label is ridiculous, and entirely unscientific. You're a speed head.

Are you serious.. ? You keep saying speed, but the medication acts total opposite in a person with ADD.
___

I do feel that Drs are too free with the Dx of ADD or ADHD, and the label may not sound appropriate (though we have labels for medical reasons that are necessary in order to treat) ..but make no mistake, it is a real medical issue and a person can have great parents and eat a wonderful diet and yet still have ADHD.

My son is grown (26) & no longer takes medication to treat his (severe) ADD, but he sees a therapist and still needs to work on himself daily. I thought he was growing out of his many issues, but soon realized that he was only stepping into more. The smaller the child the issues can be handled at home, but the older your child gets the bigger those concerns become for the parent. And I can't even imagine the struggles within the minds of those with ADD and other neurological disorders.

Originally posted by zeeon
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

I find that ADHD is a benefit when learning subjects you enjoy - I learn them extremely fast and excel at them - when I'm interested. When I'm not interested...it's a serious struggle to learn them at all.

Are you Sure you DO NOT HAVE ASPERGER'S by mistake

Yours sounds more like Asperger's Syndrome!

Our brains are constantly on on a scale of speed out of 1 to 10 our brains are revving at an astronomical rate of about infinity out of 1 to 10

Here it is You MUST READ THIS!

www1.freewebs.com...

All about Asperger's Syndrome!

Thanks for bringing awareness to this problem. I do not have ADD, but I do know people who do.

Strangely, the 3 people (all adult males in their 40's) whom I know well that have been ADD diagnosed many years ago also have Narcissistic Personality Disorder and I was wondering about the connection (comorbid) since the symptoms of ADD/ADHD and NPD are really very different, with very little overlap. Anyone know?

I didn't read through all of the posts so sorry if this was mentioned already.

Also, Brain Scientist and Medical Doctor -- Dr Daniel Amen of 'The Amen Clinic' has a high success rate for improving/curing patients with all sorts of brain disorders (but, not brain damage) including ADD/ADHD.

He has a cure if one is willing to pay the price AND do the work that involves a long-term nutritional program (no processed or fast-food and can't eat out) and take a certain type of a daily supplement -- also listening to his tapes everyday and following through with the entire program. People have said it works if you stick to it and do the work.

Originally posted by kyviecaldges
I am just about to turn 30 and I was diagnosed with ADHD in 07 and began taking medication. It has 100% changed my life for the better.
It is not a cake walk...still... and I have spent this time repairing a lot of damage that I did and learning how to not create more damage, but I can say that for those who genuinely have this disorder, it can and will destroy someone.

The biggest toll it took on me was in my social interactions.

It is real and people who say that it isn't are the same people who say depression isn't real or generalized anxiety disorder isn't real.
These people do not suffer from any type of mental dysfunction, except perhaps monumental narcissism, and they judge the rest of the world by their limited perception.

I still go to therapy and will continue to do so.
Best of luck to your brother.

edit on 4/3/2013 by kyviecaldges because: (no reason given)

I'm 50, had ADHD like issues at age 10 and remain very high-energy and not into sitting still even still.

HOWEVER, unlike your post, my POV on the drugs and tharapy concept is they're just zombification like the rest of the stupid people in this world (sorry if your IQs are below 200). Of course my EQ wasn't so high till I studied that concept, started playing music and using mathmatics to sing my songs.

The point is whatever most people consider negatives of ADHD are actually positives except for the hateful envy of the zombies.

Regarding drugs... coffee is more like a depressant and beer more like a stimulant... MJ more a relaxing 'relief' w/o the sleepy of coffee/stims. Coke in HS was useless, and too many hallucinogens was just scary. So mild drugs like coffee, pot, beer are easy enough to manage and 'enjoy responsibly' while the stronger stuff is/was just crazy. And theropy is just a paid for friend - analogous to paying for sex.

So if I have any advice its to avoid Dr Pushers, paid-friends, paid-sex, and anything stronger than MJ/Beer/coffee while ENJOYING your brain. Hard to sit still? Then stand up! If that's not socially possible then 'isometric exercises" also work.... for that "Restless Legs Syndrome" concept (another drug pusher scam). The hard-to-sit-still is simply a lack of exercise.

I have strong apprehensions.about these things.

My life is a long and tiring thing. Sad thing. Confusing thing.

How can I sum it up?

I think I have something like ADHD or Aspergers or OCPD or something like that. I was never diagnosed. Maybe because my gpa was better than 3.0. My grades were always decent. Some claimed I had talents; I disagree. So maybe they thought I would work through it. You see, socially, I was a train wreck. I could barely talk to anybody at school. I got teased and teased and teased all the way up into HS. When I was in preschool it was heaven. I can remember days when I was 7-8 years old and they seem fresher than memories from years later. Somewhere along the line I became weird and closed in on myself and others would tease me because I made myself to be a target. School became like enemy territory and home was my foxhole.

Oh geez. It's getting late and I need to go to bed.

Let me sum it up what others have said about me and what I think. Somebody once told me I'm detail oriented. A different person told me I was too tight. Yet another said I was too analytical. These're the positive ones. (/laugh) The negatives ones aren't so uplifting. People have told me I worry too much. They've told me I'm air-headed. They've said I'm a perfectionist. And so on. I could list lots of things. But by and large, somehow I suck and people don't like me. I stick to myself mostly.

It's not that I can't grasp a problem; it's more about circumstances. I can focus enough to do homework, for example. I focused enough in school to get mostly A's and B's. The problem I have is when I have to do group-assignments. I hate those. I like to focus on something and have all the time in the world; time to also lick my wounds and spend time on things I'm not clear on. I can do this when I'm at home. But at school, group assignments were a big struggle. While I think that part of it might be because I'm just stupid - low IQ maybe? - the other half of it I think is how I interact with others. Essentially, I interact with others very poorly. I do not know how to read them and find it difficult to remain calm. I get nervous. Maybe it's SAD. I get very self conscious.

Ok I have to go to bed. Again, this topic is too complicated. But I'll end this by saying I plan on never taking drugs. I'll beat through the rest of my life like a fighter and die on my own terms. Besides, I'm convinced myself this life is at best a rat race and is just a collection of hunger games. I could believe this or I could believe that, whatever. I could be happy, maybe. But I don't care. I see rain. I could see sunshine, if I tried. But you know, I am always irresistibly drawn to lesser happy things.

Myself and I agree that this quote is popular and best fits our mode right now:

A "friend" is someone who comes to bail you out of jail. A "good friend" is sitting next to you in jail saying: Damn that was fun!

Psychiatry has often used the diabetic analogy to encourage its patients to take medications but there are a couple of major differences.

There are medical tests for diabetes. If someone is found to be diabetic in New York they will also be found to be diabetic in London, Delhi, or Beijing etc. That is not the case with ADD or any other psychiatric diagnoses. There is no medical test for any of these conditions - they are diagnosed on what amounts to observation. subjective opinion and the culture of the person seeking help.

Another reason why the diabetes analogy doesn't fit is that if left untreated the diabetic may die and the prescribed medication will save their life. Not so with psychiatric meds. There are many recorded cases of the side effects of psychiatric drugs being lethal when the condition they were prescribed for was non-fatal.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
I have strong apprehensions.about these things.

My life is a long and tiring thing. Sad thing. Confusing thing.

How can I sum it up?

I think I have something like ADHD or Aspergers or OCPD or something like that.

Johnny White You have Asperger's Syndrome what you said totally clicked with me and I have Asperger's Syndrome

We Like Our own company we are Loners, Yes!
We are insanely intelligent, Yes!

Johnny I want you to read up on aspies

www.dudeimanaspie.com...

Originally posted by fr33kSh0w2012

Originally posted by zeeon
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

I find that ADHD is a benefit when learning subjects you enjoy - I learn them extremely fast and excel at them - when I'm interested. When I'm not interested...it's a serious struggle to learn them at all.

Are you Sure you DO NOT HAVE ASPERGER'S by mistake

Yours sounds more like Asperger's Syndrome!

Our brains are constantly on on a scale of speed out of 1 to 10 our brains are revving at an astronomical rate of about infinity out of 1 to 10

Here it is You MUST READ THIS!

www1.freewebs.com...

All about Asperger's Syndrome!

Huh. I'll be looking at related sites for the next few days.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Well I don't know how true this is. I had ADHD when I was a kid out grew it around 19. My wife had it as well she out grew it at around 22. My 16 yr old daughter has it currently but is coming off of her meds now and seems to be doing very well. Different for everybody I guess. That being sad I know lots of people who are no longer ADHD.

reply to post by mblahnikluver


Good for you for finding ways to self control and handle your situation.

I feel the same way about the medications, surely they can help but the side effects kinda wipe that out.

Do they still prescribe amphetamines for people? I could always handle the speed but the anti depressant messed with my head. THings being all shiny and a sense that the reality I was experiencing was not real and I could almost see through the illusion. Definitely a weird experience when you start adjusting your reality and try and find the right one for you, especially when your natural reality is weird to begin with.