I want to be a CHEMTRAIL DEBUNKER

reply to post by clairvoyantrose


Looking at your link I found something very interesting...

Carnicom Institute is by far the most involved in a true research of the so called "Morgellons condition". For people interested to learn more we highly recommend his website and particularly its research pages.

You may want to contact Mr Carnicom as he says he has a cure for Morgellons...

Originally posted by Painfulhead
I find that websites that debunk chemtrails have much more expensive looking web pages. Why is this odd? I don’t know for sure. Seems right that the people that would want to keep something like this quite would have more money at their disposal. Also seems right that grass roots whistle blowers wouldn’t have as much capital.

So NASA, FAA/EPA, NOAA, MetO, RMetS, and other sites that embrace science and explain that what people see and call chemtrails are actually just aircraft contrails (but nonetheless, something we should perhaps be a little concerned about for other reasons) have expensive looking websites. And you find that odd?

( the only specific chemtrail debunking website I know of is contrailscience and - no disrespect to Uncinus - I wouldn't call that an expensive looking website.)

reply to post by AndyMayhew

( the only specific chemtrail debunking website I know of is contrailscience and - no disrespect to Uncinus - I wouldn't call that an expensive looking website.)

Your right it doesn't look expensive, but it gets to the meat and bones of the chemtrail hoax.

reply to post by AndyMayhew


You make a good point.
I realize that this is a very small and more then likely easily explained observation. I could see this being a by product of internet commerce.
Thanks for posting…………Painfulhead

reply to post by Painfulhead


How do you think it might be possible to continue discussions on this subject when the very core of the subject is so dynamic?

The problems I see are as follows:
1. cannot define what constitutes a "chemtrail" (starts off as white line behind planes, but then obscures into agent orange spraying, cloud seeding, crop dusting)

2. Cannot decide why they might exist. (anything from killing humanity, to hiding Niburu, to fixing global warming)

3. Cannot decide who is doing the spraying. (only military, only civilian jets, it's both of them, it's aliens in cloaked ships that look like planes)

I can appreciate your position and was once there myself as I wasn't sure if there was something to all the stories or not. And I don't expect to make your decision for you. I am still open to the idea that somewhere, someone might be testing their theories on the geo-engineering aspect of spraying something to deflect sunlight, but when you look at history, it's impossible for me to attribute anything to the visual aspects of contrails. Contrails look the same and act the same as they always have from any source I find, be it a library, or the internet.

If someone was going to spray something to deflect the sun to cool the planet, my common sense tells me that the only logical place to start would be over the ocean. Global temperatures are influenced by oceanic temperatures before any other aspect comes into play. (my thinking, not necessarily science proven, I might be very wrong about that) So if the ocean plays a big part in temperature, why spray over a desert, the mountains, the valleys, or anywhere in between?

I just get frustrated when you can start a discussion, feel like you have a grasp on the subject, only to have the definition completely changed every time. For example of this, please see ANY chemtrail thread.

Good luck with your search.

reply to post by AndyMayhew


One very telling thing I have noticed is the donation button. It's almost always on the chemtrail proponent sites, and almost never at the chemtrail debunking sites. Things that make you go Hmmmm.............

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by Painfulhead

 

Here's how to be a chemtrail debunker...

1) Have some common sense. (and be sure to know the difference between chemtrails and contrails...as that's the kicker)...

2) Realize that IF someone was really trying to dose the populace, they'd also be doping themselves, their kids, their loved ones, etc.

3) If number 2 wasn't enough to convince you of its absurdity, then go back to number 1. If you did that, and still get back here to number 3, then go to number 4.

4) Realize that the amount of personnel who would have to be in on it is so vast and enormous (from ground and flight crews, to every paper pusher in the entire industry, that applying the rule of number 1, should then convince you how absurd the chemtrail argument is. If you're really determined then go to number 5.

5) If you STILL think we're being dosed, then face it, you're screwed, and there's nothing you can do about it anyhow, so lock yourself in the basement, secure your tin foil hat, and type up a manifesto or two....

edit on 4-3-2013 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)

#2 is where i have the problem and can see where most of the confusion comes in. Do chemtrails have to mean, they're doping us? Couldnt chemtrails be used, just to change weather patterns? i seriously doubt they're spraying poison in the air, as some kinda plot to kills us all. They have other means to do that, like war, poverty, and diseases. They hardly need to spray us like cockroaches, when they can easily inject us with toxic waste!

Originally posted by Painfulhead

Websites.
I find that websites that debunk chemtrails have much more expensive looking web pages. Why is this odd? I don’t know for sure. Seems right that the people that would want to keep something like this quite would have more money at their disposal. Also seems right that grass roots whistle blowers wouldn’t have as much capital.

I bet the thread has been over this already but, what websites? Contrail Science looks like a simple blog compared to, say, ATS.

All I can think to offer is that sites like that are not trying to attract conspiracy theorists, they are trying to help conspiracy theorists. Different emphasis, I suppose.

ATS
This might bring the heat but wouldn’t it be smart to head off any interest in the topic before people start to dig. My own story shows how effective this would be.

Folks forget that ATS has its roots in debunking stuff like 'chemtrails'. The group of guys here that get accused of being here as shills for this or that agency, are simply here because they know that they can catch the best flys on the Geo-engineering forum.

They are here, because 'Chemmies' are here. It's biology, really. But totally disturbing for those that think they will come here and gain ground with their chemtrail theories.

If the powers that be know something we don’t then keeping every thing running till the last second would be desirable. I have always felt that more important then money is knowledge, and who would have first bibs on knowledge? The rich. These crazies don’t think short term they think long term. If I was one I ,while no one was looking, would build underground bases for my bloodline, build an ark of all the seeds and animals. I would even store some seamen and eggs so a hundred years from now I could go back to a purer blood line from days gone by. (I know crazy talk)

See there? Now it's not just 'chemtrails' but TPTB and 'arks' and 'bloodlines' and all that. You have a story that you are running in your head and you are looking for stuff to pin it on. It's the way that the chemtrail narratives spread and attach to other conspiracy narratives that makes the 'chemtrail' thing so hard to deal with.

You are sort of setting yourself up for a bunch of 'yeah but!' posts.

The debunkers love that, you know, and will take down those 'yeah buts!' like a pack of wolves taking down a rabbit.

Ever since that day in February I have watched and shook my fist at the sky. The sudden stop or sputter of the ’trail’. some jets leaving a trail and the next not. Two jets flying in close flight paths one with one with out. The crazy way that these trails fan out or apeir to cascade down like slow rain.

That is one of the hallmarks of the phenomenon as well. Chemmies wax very poetically when it comes to 'Chemtrails'. That's because they are disturbed by what they see happening in the world, and they want to help. Chemmies, have the biggest hearts, and I have always thought that it should be recognized.

They know in their hearts that things are not good, and 'chemtrails' seem to provide obvious 'evidence' of this, that all can see. The chemmies want to reach out and save humanity, and that is a very laudable trait.

But there are no 'chemtrails' and that's where the 'craziness' sets in, and the 'yeah buts!'.

And the circular madness continues.

HAARP
Wtf. All I can do is look at the floor and shrug my shoulders

I know that all of this add up to nothing and therefore is utter speculation.
I know that science has the upper hand when it come to FACTS
I know there are photos from years gone by of lingering contrails
I know I am inviting reticule and laughter
I know I will probable disappear again, maybe this time humiliated.

I can only hope to reemerge as a stead fast mind made up CHEMTRAIL DEBUNKER.
Thanks and yes I will take my medicine now……………… Painfulhead

It's because you love the world so much, and the people in it. You are a good person for taking it all on to your shoulders like this. That's the only medicine you should be taking: You are a good person that is trying to understand and help.

Now, if you want to get real good at debunking 'Chemtrails', just hang out here, and begin to spend more time at ContrailScience.

Just remember to be gentle on those that come after you.

I'd still like the chemtrail proponents to answer this one question...

Why would anybody behind the chemtrail conspiracy support such a thing (spraying any kind of harmful substance), when there is no way to prevent the same substance from affecting THEIR family and loved ones also?

Seriously, if you can't answer that one question, then you've realized the ridiculousness of the idea.

reply to post by Bybyots
Maybe, people feel that way regarding the conspiracy behind chemtrails because we all know, and history has shown us, tptb's capability and thirst for controlling mankind. Everyone wants to rule the world. Unfortunately, for us, tptb have the means to do so.

The other side of the coin is that what are called chemtrails are nonetheless something to be concerned about. If they are not causing problems because [insert favoured chemtrail explanation here] there are still contributed, even if just in a small way, to global warming, and reducing the number of days of clear skies across much of North America and Europe - and increasingly elsewhere as well.

So, IMO, it's very right to be angered about chemtrails/contrails and demand something be done about them - though has to be said that science agrees, and is doing its best. And the military have the same ideas, though for slightly different reasons. Maybe in 10 or 20 years chemtrails/contrails will be a thing of the past?

www.wired.com...

reply to post by BrainWasher

Maybe, people feel that way regarding the conspiracy behind chemtrails because we all know, and history has shown us, tptb's capability and thirst for controlling mankind. Everyone wants to rule the world. Unfortunately, for us, tptb have the means to do so.

Yes, you are absolutely correct.

After all we have been through, why should anyone be expected to believe anything, really.

I join you all here on this thread in good faith. In my 'time' (97'- 2006) I was the King of The Chemmies.

I would stop people on the street, I scared the crap out of my entire family, some are still on the fence over the issue; do you know what kind of damage control I have had to do? Lots, I'm still doing it.

I could hardly look at the sky, it was horrible.

Then one day things began to change for me and soon I was able to just lay my whole bag of crap out, much like the OP has done here. I got direct help in understanding the science behind it all from members on this site; some of which are gone and sadly none of you may be able to meet them. Then I went to ContrailScience and got help there too.

What I did not do is come back to ATS to dog 'Chemmies'. I vowed not to do that. I see the crew of Chemmie debunkers on ATS as sort of like entities that one might meet in one of Dante's circles of hell. I don't approve of their methods, but I came to appreciate their place in the scheme of things.

I just want you all to know how bright the future is and I want you all to be able to smile at the sky once more.

You can get there by denying ignorance, with the full force of your being.

The world needs you now more than ever.

Originally posted by Gibraltarego
reply to post by Phage

 

Have you ever been outside? Try it. When one of those 'high clouds' moves overhead it is instantly COOLER on the surface.

Ever notice how it's warmer at night when there's an overcast?
High clouds do keep it from getting as warm during the day but they also trap the heat at night. The net result seems to be warming effect.
news.sciencemag.org...

reply to post by network dude


I love your post and think your 1,2,3, is spot on and illustrates the very core of the discussion from both sides. Good one Network Dude.
It was the inability of these threads to have ‘good’ and ‘friendly’ debate that put me off.

So lets dive into the Painfulhead and hear some of the voices…..

What if…….
Chemtrails are connected to HAARP tech in the following way. One of HAARP’s ability has to do with radar and mapping. We know that it uses electricity. People say that “Chemtrails” have aluminum in them and we know that that would help conductivity. so you draw lines that connect city’s and spray grids or blocks over city’s. This would create a highly electric infrastructure for mapping tech. you would need to redraw these line and grids often enough to keep that high level of conductivity. all the other topics could be byproducts of this technology or side effects. Now I remember hearing that this tech, HAARP, was used during the first Gulf War and may have been responsible for all the Gulf War Syndrome, but was used for mapping(this may not be true). I think it was said in “Angel don’t play this HAARP“ that this tech has some mind control aspects.(this may not be true)

Any way I am kind of a dumb sh-t but the whole thing gives me the creeps.

Great post ‘Dude’…………… Painfulhead

reply to post by Gazrok


The majority of wealthy people live most of their lives in climate controlled environments. If there is a small group responsible, they are not concerned with their children; their children are resilient. They are choosing the lesser of two evils; either harm themselves now or the future generations later. When average temperatures raise 1 degree, thousands more elderly die. I doubt if there is a group in control that they are in their 20's. Besides, what would happen if temperatures suddenly increased an average of 10-15 degrees. The masses would panic, it's better to use short term solution; like most solutions dealing with major issues these days. It wouldn't be too far fetched to reach a point where everyone would require breathing apparatuses, and dependent on climate controls for survival. It all boils down to control. The wealthy have the resources for any technological necessities to counteract any negative effects.

I mean, here's another question; why do corporations dump toxic waste into the environment? Are they concerned about what it might do to their kids?

Originally posted by BrainWasher

#2 is where i have the problem and can see where most of the confusion comes in. Do chemtrails have to mean, they're doping us? Couldnt chemtrails be used, just to change weather patterns?

I would not consider cloud seeding as "chemtrailing" since there isn't anything secretive about it. Cloud seeding happens in Texas every summer. It's announced in the papers, and gets the occasional television news story. Due to the drought, they try everything they can to make it rain. That actually makes sense, as they are flying in the clouds to directly effect the clouds. This is also why I would consider chemtrailing, if it were to actually take place, as poisoning or mood control, this spraying would occur at a much lower altitude.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by clairvoyantrose
Hey op!!! LOVE threads like these! I am so passionate about this subject.

I've dove deep into the chemtrail conspiracy because my Aunty is a sufferer of Morgellons. I've seen the fibers, her un-curable lesions, and seen her pain first hand. But of course, the doctors can't find anything wrong with her?

What connects "Morgellans" with Chemtrails? Its widely described by the medical profession as a form of delusional parasitosis.

www.mayoclinic.com...

If its linked - why doesn't everyone have it, if its something in the air?

And Why don't animals have it?

And that's exactly what the doctors told her. She's "delusional". If she's so delusional, why are there fibers that are creating highways throughout her body? Why are there fibers and red goop coming out of incurable lesions on her body? She noticed a fungus growing on her rain water barrel and then a couple months down the road is now crippled and turned away from every doctor because she's "delusional". Maybe if somebody close to you was suffering from such disease, you'd wonder what is going on in your skies too. It's not going to effect everybody, nor every animal. I've seen cases where people AND their animals are perfectly healthy, and then chemtrails are introduced and a couple months down the lines their animals start dying and these people get lesions, hair falls out, fibers coming out of their body, crippling pain, feelings of things moving inside of them.

It all depends on the chemical composition of what they choose to spray in an area, and depends on the immune system of the host. It is suggested that we all have a mild form of morgellons.

reply to post by Bybyots


Thank you so much for your thoughtful and well written post. More like you would help us all find our way.
Good one is all I can say, love to you brother…………..Painfulhead

reply to post by Painfulhead

We know that it uses electricity.

Yes. HAARP uses diesel generators to produce electricity. It uses that electricity to power its transmitters. Transmitters which produce radio waves, not electricity.

People say that “Chemtrails” have aluminum in them and we know that that would help conductivity.

Aluminum cables? You don't get conductivity though particles floating in the air.

reply to post by usernameconspiracy


Aye, cloud seeding is no secret - not just in the US where it's frequently mentioned by regional news outlets, but elsewhere, including Russia, China, Australia, India and SE Asia. The main issue is over whether it actually works!