Cardinal O'Brien Sorry for Sexual Misconduct

reply to post by KyrieEleison

Sorry, I keep dbl posting. It only happens at ATS?

reply to post by trysts


Just purchase a term paper on the subject for yourself, since you seem to need things spoon-fed to you.

reply to post by merkins


You know, as an adult, I thi k I've been able to deal with the physical aspect of being beat up as a kid and teenager, but I can't come to terms with what was done to me sexually and psychologcally and emotionally...how do you come to terms with being raped as a kid and a teenager and having your mind so f***ed up? I just really never see a way to ever find peace. I know how to function like a normal human being by Burying all of that stuff deep down and pretending like it doesn't exist but that only works for a while.

I was only apologizing for the misunderstanding...but you're right, his post was insensitive. "Hot under the ecclesiastical collar"?

reply to post by jcutler12888


The biggest problem I have in my personal circumstances is how do you forgive someone for things they deny ever happened? And this is exactly what this predator cardinal did for years and years.

In a kind of twisted way I'm lucky that the sexual abuse was outside the family and nothing to do with them. As for physical and psychological abuse, well my parents, brother and sister, deny it ever happened. Phantom memories my arse. Do phantom memories leave physical scars?

Unfortuately despite being a tall and strong male, the phys, psych, & sexual abuse followed me into relationships and other areas of life, and has forever coloured my life with darkness. And trust? That's alien to me for the most part. I trust some ATS members more than I would people in real life and I've only been a member a few months.

How these priests can remain in that church that protected this predator is mindblowing to me? And you just know there are others who for many reasons have not come forward prseumably due to adverse affects on their careers and personal lives.

I behave very differently in every aspect of my life than I would have if I had ever been valued by others as I grew up.

reply to post by jcutler12888

Hey, silo. I think that we might have been unclear in our conversation...we were referring to this guy as a sexual predator, which is a term that applies to people who prey on adults and people who prey on children. He is in a position of power and acted sexually "inappropriate" towards his subordinates and used his power to keep the people who were casualties of his "misconduct" quiet.

True - and you find me agreeing - a sexual predator is repugnant - but still not a pedophile. At least as adult can do something (in most cases). I’m not giving a thumbs up to the guy I was just skimming through the replies and it sounded like far too many people were putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5.

Sorry if we sounded like we were going all vigilante and "hang him from a tree for being a pedophile", we probably should've been more clear about it.

Oh hun, don’t be sorry - If he were a pedo I’d supply the rope.

peace

reply to post by merkins

"So he got wasted and a little hot under the ol' ecclesiastical collar. Oh well. Not like it hasn’t happened to some of the best of us. Let’s not hang him from the wrong tree. "

That statement is belittling the suffering and trauma of the victims. I have to assume you've never been a victim of sexual abuse.

The article led me to believe ‘all’ the man/priest did was 'come on' to three other priests over the space of a few decades. Not that he touched them, forced or coerced them - simply made a pass while under the influence of alcohol.

Did he do more? I don’t know - the article didn’t say. If he did? It’s my opinion he should be defrocked and face charges - no sympathy.

I've seen many of your posts over the years and to be honest I thought you were a better human than that. Very sad.

If you’ve read my posts ‘over the years’ than you know I am a staunch advocate of children and adults who’ve been sexually abused. Remember - I’m the one that (still) wants sexual predators branded.

I’m sorry you couldn’t have had a little more faith in me after ‘all these years’ instead of jumping to conclusions.

peace

reply to post by silo13


Yes I too am an advocate of branding paedophiles. The forehead is the best place. I wonder could that be why your post was in such poor taste, inappropriate, lacking in empathy for victims and mildly offensive.

Your opening statement:

"Whoa! Down with the pitchforks folks! There’s nothing in the article (that I read) stating anything about this guy being a pedophile."

You brought up the word paedophile no one else did. So YOU were the one jumping to conclusions and you haven't yet acknowedged that fact or apologised for it. It was your own prejudice that caused that.

Your final statement.

"So he got wasted and a little hot under the ol' ecclesiastical collar. Oh well. Not like it hasn’t happened to some of the best of us. Let’s not hang him from the wrong tree."

That is offensive to at least one person I know who as been sexually abused as an adult - me.

Your final statement in subseqent response to me:

"I’m sorry you couldn’t have had a little more faith in me after ‘all these years’ instead of jumping to conclusions."

It was not me that jumped to conlusions. YOU DID. You jumped to the conclusion that the evil sexual predator we were discussing was being labelled erroneously as a pedo. And yet you try to pass he buck and are unable to say sorry for jumping to conlusions and making flippant insensitive even inhumane remarks about predatory sexual abuse.

I also find it ironic that you are sorry I lacked faith in you in a thread about how evil and corrupt some 'Faiths' can be. Your statements in this thread also point towards a lack of compassion and empathy. You appear not to be sorry for your mistakes and your incendiary remarks. Your statements were categorical and not a matter of faith anyway.

I don't know...perhaps it's your ego that prevents you from admitting you were wrong and apologising for it.

reply to post by merkins

Originally posted by merkins
reply to post by jcutler12888

 

The biggest problem I have in my personal circumstances is how do you forgive someone for things they deny ever happened? And this is exactly what this predator cardinal did for years and years.

In a kind of twisted way I'm lucky that the sexual abuse was outside the family and nothing to do with them. As for physical and psychological abuse, well my parents, brother and sister, deny it ever happened. Phantom memories my arse. Do phantom memories leave physical scars?

Unfortuately despite being a tall and strong male, the phys, psych, & sexual abuse followed me into relationships and other areas of life, and has forever coloured my life with darkness. And trust? That's alien to me for the most part. I trust some ATS members more than I would people in real life and I've only been a member a few months.

How these priests can remain in that church that protected this predator is mindblowing to me? And you just know there are others who for many reasons have not come forward prseumably due to adverse affects on their careers and personal lives.

I behave very differently in every aspect of my life than I would have if I had ever been valued by others as I grew up.

.

I kinda see Cardinal O'Brien as a guy who is admitting to what he did, saying he's "sorry", and not losing a bit of sleep over it. THAT'S what makes it maddening, How do you forgive someone if they don't care whether you forgive them or not because what they've done is of no consequence to them?

Here's the problem for me with forgiveness...in my case, everyone knows he did it. EVERYONE. They know that the physical, sexual, and psychological abuse went on for THIRTEEN years. And he's a close family member. Yet no one will do anything about it, he's still free and quite smug about things and has the nerve to try to contact me to "reminisce" about everything that's he did to me in the past and talk about what more he'd still like to do to me, etc. The word atrocious simply doesn't cover it all. He doesn't deny it...he actually owns up to it and is proud of it and he wants to hurt me more. It's insane. How do you do the Christian thing and forgive and forget (for your own sake, really?) when it's shoved in your face so often? How do you let go of anger when everyone knows what happened and the person who did it talks about it like a personal achievement? You can't, you don't, and I just believe its not possible to forgive or let go of anger under those circumstances. I definitely understand what you're saying about being glad that it happened outside of your family...I actively crusade against this kind of stuff, working with charities and speaking on the matter at schools and stuff, but deep down I'm still ashamed that I was used by a family member for their sick, twisted desires. I don't care about the scars on my body fom belt buckles and pain in my bones from where they were broken time and again...I just wish the ones on the inside weren't so big.

The darkness has colored my life and followed me as well. I'm just a small weak girl and it's like being someone who was abused for almost my whole life made me the perfect candidate to be abused further...I left my abusive home only to go directly into my first rwlationship which became an abusive marriage, which I got out of three years ago. I'm twenty-four and I've only had THREE years to work on being "normal" or "okay" again, and I don't think three hundred would be long enough to achieve that. Trust is a joke when you know that the only person in the world that you can trust is yourself...and that's how I feel.

I, too, behave very differently that I would've if I had ever been valued growing up, and especially if I had never been abused. It's like abuse killed the person I was and left me as the lesser person that I am today.

The clergy stay in the Church with the justification of "I was never involved with any of that and I still believe in what the Church stands for" and blah blah blah blah blah...when we all know it's simply because they don't wanna give up their jobs or their success or their egos and etc.

reply to post by silo13


I'm glad you agree. But I don't agree that adults can usually do something to protect themselves in most cases...I know I couldn't protect myself against my ex-husband, and many other women have had the same problems with their husbands. Nah, we weren't putting 2 and 2 together to make 5...we were just saying that this O'Brien guy is no better than any other sexual predator, whether they prey on children or adults.

Thank you. I'm sorry for saying I'm sorry...I have a horrible habit of saying "I'm sorry" about everything, ugh...it's embarrassing. If he were a pedo and you'd supply the rope, I'd tie the noose and put it around his neck myself.

reply to post by jcutler12888


The things that we do in life, what is in our hearts, is what defines us as a person, not the terrible things that we are forced to endure.

You should NOT feel ashamed or responsible for the evils that were done to you. It was not your choice, and it certainly does not devalue you in any way.

Yes, there are terrible people in this world. There will be many that never accept personal responsibility, and there is no possible way they will ever change as a result of external influence. The change has to come from within.

Taking this a step further, if the people in your life who are supposed to be there to not only treat you with dignity but also with patience, kindness, and love seem totally incapable of doing these things, for any or no reason at all, then what does that say about them? You decide.

You are not a "small, weak girl" as you've said in your post. You have the capability of standing on your own without the need for someone else to give you permission or approval. In fact, based on your history, I'd say it's the others in your life that should be seeking your approval.

Until they show they are ready (or even capable) to do so then perhaps it's time to surround yourself with people who do. If the others really care enough, they'll come around. If not, well that kind of speaks for itself now doesn't it?

reply to post by KyrieEleison


I'm afraid that the anger in my heart and the inability to forgive factors in in a major way as to who I am. I have good things in my heart, of course...but I have yet to master the anger without simply turning all of my emotions completely off. And I'm not proud of any of that.

I know that I'm not responsible for the things that happened (I even know that they don't devalue me in any way, even though I fight with myself over that fact because I often feel that it does devalue me)? The shame is harder to shake, especially since it was a family member who did those things and for so long when I should've run away sooner or just stabbed him in his sleep or just something, anything to make it stop.

He will never change. I know that down in the deepest depths of my soul...the man will never change and I will always be his target no matter how old I get.

I know what the inability to treat me with patience, kindness, dignity, and love says about them...it says that they aren't worth a damn or a second of my time. Unfortunately, down here and especially in this community and culture, you're supposed to stick by your family (no matter how badly they treat you)...it's expected, especially of a young unmarried woman like myself. To do otherwise would set me up for being ostracized from the community and labelled a bad or dirty girl by my own people. Walking away from people who aren't worth your time isn't as easy as you'd think in my case.

I only meant small and weak in the sense that I am only 5'5", 115-120 lbs., and I am not the strongest girl around. I definitely have the capability of standing on my own and I certainly don't need anyone's permission, but approval is more subjective. I wish others would seek my approval...but I doubt it will ever happen.

I'm surrounded by several non-family members that are my friends that love and care about me and treat me with kindness, dignity, and patience. I can't shake off my family, no matter how much I want to or how much I resent them. I'm stuck between my own rock and a hard place.

reply to post by jcutler12888


First of all I am so sorry for your suffering and pain.

The following part of your post makes me so angry. Do you still have relationships with your other 'turn a blind eye' family members? I know I'd have had to cut them off and move town and start again.

"Here's the problem for me with forgiveness...in my case, everyone knows he did it. EVERYONE. They know that the physical, sexual, and psychological abuse went on for THIRTEEN years. And he's a close family member. Yet no one will do anything about it,"

Also these following words chilled me to the bone and it's something I've heard of many times and it never fails to shock me and make we want to pick up a weapon and track 'em down.

"he's still free and quite smug about things and has the nerve to try to contact me to "reminisce" about everything that's he did to me in the past and talk about what more he'd still like to do to me, etc"

"Reminisce" so hard to believe humans (men mostly) behave this way, but I have heard it described in exactly the same words so many times from others.

I don't know about you but I can't cope with the forums that deal with these issues, and therefore find speaking out here in this place where that is not my whole identity much ess traumatic. In fact my admissions have never been so learly highlighted as I have here. If you ever want to chat off board my inbox is always open.

reply to post by jcutler12888


I know we are straying off topic but as the OP I absolutely ENCOURAGE this line of discussion.

Couldn't you move state and start fresh, but not before you learned martial arts and beaten him to a pulp.
It sounds like you've go some good friends which arevworth their weight in gold, but couldn't a move have a massive positive effect?

reply to post by jcutler12888


You really can, though.

I've heard it said that in some Native American cultures, whenever someone acts out in an unreasonable or shameful manner, that they simply turn their backs on them and remain silent.

These people know what happened. They know it's wrong. They can't seem to face it, so you've already done what you can do. You don't need to keep after them asking them to face the music. It is disempowering to you, and gives them all the control, which is probably the way they want it to remain.

Consequences.

I know we've already discussed our feelings regarding society and the status quo, I hope we don't need to journey down that road again. Who cares what people label you unless it's true? Is it true? If lying and backstabbing are the accepted norm, why do you want any part of it?

You may feel like a terrible person, or that you are denying yourself, but you really aren't. You need to protect yourself. People who put you in the position where you feel you need to constantly have to do so do not have your best interests in mind and it's unhealthy to subject yourself to that kind of nonsense.

reply to post by merkins


No need to apologize for things that are someone else's fault. He's responsible...he's the only one who should ever say he's sorry, along with my family for turning a blind eye.

I do have relationships with my family...not because I want to but because I'm ultimately forced to. This town is my home and I plan on having a long and happy life here, they will not run my out of my home. And if I were to turn my back on them, I would be blacklisted in this city and success would be an impossibility. Not to mention...my mother is mostly Roma and Traveller with a large bit of French and Cherokee thrown in and my father is English/Scottish/Irish/Italian(northern)...I have no siblings but I have a huge extended "Gypsy" family. My family is quite influential in the politics and high society in this area. Not only is it practically a sin to cut yourself off from your family if you're an unmarried woman in the "Gypsy" community (I'd never get to see relatives that I actually love and I'd be considered a worthless "dirty" girl by the majority of them), but I would be politically and socially ruined (which actually matters because I'm currently 2/3 of the way done with my law degree and masters and I intend on practicing here, which will become an impossibility if I'm blacklisted).

I cannot understand how they think it's okay to "reminisce" and want to do more to those they've hurt...I can't wrap my mind around it. That kind of man...I will simply never understand. It makes me sick. As far as weapons and self-defense goes, I've learned judo, karate, and systema and I have several guns of many types throughout my house...I'm always ready to defend myself if need be.

Feel free to U2U (private message) me whenever you'd like. I'd love to chat.

reply to post by KyrieEleison


I stated in my last post why I can't just cut ties. It isn't simple in any way, snap, or form.

I am definitely not after them to acknowledge what happened. They acknowledge it, but they don't care. Back whenever I was after something from them, I was told to let it go and move on. My mother in particular (who was sexually and physically abused by her father as well, along with her seven brothers and sisters [my mother was the youngest]), said that if I had any feelings about, I just needed to bury them and keep moving forward. I gave up on trying to make them face the music a long time ago...they acknowledge the music and say, "So what? Get over it, you're not the only one." I ask nothing of them, I expect nothing of them...I only maintain relationships (if you can even call them that) to maintain my social standing in the city that I wholeheartedly intend on staying in and building a life and career in...they are NOT going to mess that up for me, I will.NOT allow them to run me away from my home and ruin my future plans. They will never ruin anything for me ever again.

I only want to be successful here. If I have to put up with the lying and backstabbing for a while to achieve my ultimate goal, then I will...but only until I have achieved what is rightfully mine to have.

I know it's unhealthy to subject myself to the nonsense...but there is no other way to get what I want and to be where I want to be and to become what I want to become than to do what I'm doing.

O brien is just as bad as SIR jimmy so VILE, who raped and perhaps even murdered children for 50 years. Obrien aided and abetted him in these crimes. By allowing him to continue them by not saying anything. He must have known or suspected him of these crimes. For instance with the trips to lourdes, taking injured children to lourdes in a jumbolance.

img405.imageshack.us...

Their friendship goes back a very long way, to when he first became a priest in Scotland.
Sorry? He should be arrested and I will feel sorry if he is not arrested. As will all the children he allowed so VILE to abuse.

reply to post by jcutler12888





I have to congratulate you on your inner strength


Reading that post of yours reminded me of a recent case in the UK where a girl had been

raped by her step father and her own mother did not believe her! And either because of or

despite of this she, like you, worked very hard and got her law degree.

Then she took her molester to court and had him sentenced to time in prison.......


Now that's Karma.... I hope you get yours...

reply to post by eletheia


Thank you so much.

It sounds like she had the same motivation as me to gain the power she needed to see justice served.

Karma is a b****, but she sure is gonna be one beautiful b**** the day I pass the bar to practice in this state and have the power to force the wheels of justice to turn and crush him for what he's done.

reply to post by jcutler12888


"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

It is commendable to want to set things right that others have dropped the ball on. I'm not saying you should just let it slide or give that d-bag a pass. I'm sure you will be mindful so that it does not consume you. The positive things you've got going for you in your life are going to be healthier for you though in the long run.