The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by AshleyD

 

that should come as no surprise, of course. Some of it was legend, oral tradition, etc., and we don't really know for sure.

Exactly my point.
I think it's important to us, as a species, and stewards of the planet and our children, to dissect it and determine what is legend, what is oral tradition, and what is fiction.

We don't really know for sure.....
thanks for chiming in.

edit on 2-3-2013 by wildtimes because: fix quoted bit

some people have common sense and when they read all about the worship of saturn they can put 2 and 2 together and realise that the ISRAELITES better known to you in the shortened down version as ELITES are taking the pee out of everyone as god is the planet Saturn.

So everyone who believes in religion is actually worshipping a planet but try telling that to someone who has just believed the word of another human who wrote a book saying god is this thing that created the universe and watch the thing they have called pride kick in. fcuk the elites are clever such wasted imaginations how on earth did pond life become so good at fooling everyone else

humans dont like to look stupid especially to themselves once they realise they have been fooled.

im going to get into so much trouble if i keep on putting this info on here lol pick any website out of these

www.google.com.au...=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=worship+of+saturn&oq=worship+of+saturn&gs_l=hp.1.0.0l2j0i5i30l2.8206.11526.0.14768.17.1 6.0.1.1.1.674.4668.2-1j3j5j2.11.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.5.psy-ab.kpUXEkk6lBI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43148975,d.aWM&fp=606cbf7a05f368d5& biw=1680&bih=882

but please wake up forget your pride and just accept the truth and enjoy your life stop worrying about the future.

reply to post by jinni73


Not sure to whom you meant this post...
but thanks,
I, for one, am enjoying my life.....curiosity is a fabulous part of being human.

edit:
Oh, and, I'm not worried.

reply to post by jinni73

the ISRAELITES better known to you in the shortened down version as ELITES are taking the pee out of everyone as god is the planet Saturn.

And your evidence for this is???

Go to this post for my evidence

24 ancient civilizations that pre-date the Roman empire (who are the ones who named the planet Saturn) keeping the 7th day, the rest day, before people even discovered Saturn shows your whole argument line a waste.

get back on topic

reply to post by adjensen

Actually, I need to retract that statement and apologize -- you didn't say it

I thought it a bit strange, because I had been reading from various sites about how many were killed during this period or that and I did not think the evidence was backed up enough for me to post on it.

This is something you have dangled over me about 3 times now as a chief reason to discredit the worth of what I have written on. It is not really appreciated when I am accused of something I didn't do and you have held it against me for a long time.

I accept your apology

How early are of Christians are we talking about here? As late as 1553 Christians were still being burned at the stake by other Christians for alleged heresies. One example is Michael Servetus for proclaiming the Catholic church was in error with false doctrines. One in particular is the false trinity doctrine. Here is a link to the Wikipedia page which describes in more detail this particular Christian who was martyred for speaking the truth by fellow proclaiming "Christians" who ascribe to anything the Catholic church puts forth. en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by mplsfitter539

The author is talking about the first three centuries after Jesus' crucifixion.

One thing I've noticed throughout the thread is that people bring up how Christians persecute each other relentlessly.
It's demoralizing, for me at least.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by mplsfitter539

 

It's demoralizing, for me at least.

I agree it has definitely caused some Christians to be demoralized. Some Christians choose to not base their faith on what past generations have done in the name of Christianity. I rarely define my faith as Christianity because of the past behavior of others who proclaim that name. This is the reason why I identify with Michael Sevetus on the defining basis of Christian faith. Even today if one publicly admits to the restoration of all things instead of eternal torment it is grounds for excommunication.

Christians in the first few centuries were martyred for much of the same reasons. The Jews like Paul killed them until Paul had a one on one with the Lord. The rest of the zealous Jews continued killing them after that. Then later the zealous Christians killed anyone who would not assign to their creeds/doctrines just like the Jews did. Like they say history repeats itself.

reply to post by mplsfitter539


Yep.
And btw, welcome to ATS!
I'm going to read back to your earliest posts, since you've responded to two of my threads with thoughtful posts. Glad you've arrived!

checkin' in to see if anyone has this book yet.

observation; this religion thing seems to be dividing us quite a lot.
perhaps we're all wrong?

reply to post by tinhattribunal

Yeah, perhaps.
I was looking at the website "nderf" today, after listening to a Coast 2 Coast interview with Dr Jeffrey Long -
the founder of nderf (also oberf, and adcrf)......

reply to post by wildtimes


ahh!
i think i see where you are going with that.

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by jinni73

 

the ISRAELITES better known to you in the shortened down version as ELITES are taking the pee out of everyone as god is the planet Saturn.

And your evidence for this is???

Go to this post for my evidence

24 ancient civilizations that pre-date the Roman empire (who are the ones who named the planet Saturn) keeping the 7th day, the rest day, before people even discovered Saturn shows your whole argument line a waste.

get back on topic

LOL

well common sense would be a starting point

Egypt was clearly based on astrology and so was Greece

google Worship of Saturn


and how is educating people what the religion is really based on off topic on a topic about myths about the christian religion

Even the jews changed the last day of the week to Saturday to get back at the egyptians who drove them out of egypt because they were warmongering all the time all through history jews have started wars even recent history jewish banks backed hitler the cold war was between two jewish controlled countries and the war on terror was also jew backed but the word jew only relates to a few elites not the good people who get suckered and brainwashed into a religion, although I think most of the Jewish people know judaism is based on the worship of saturn.

oh and your chart is based on what another persons view mine is based on fighting these elites and bloodlines and them showing me stuff that if you haven't got a reference point you wont believe

check out this website then read other websites and see what your intuition tells you
www.whale.to...
The Holy Sabbath is actually the worship of the planet Saturn. If you "keep the Sabbath," then you are carrying on the ancient worship of this pagan god. That is why he is worshipped on Saturn's Day -- which today we call "Saturday."

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by jinni73

 

Not sure to whom you meant this post...
but thanks,
I, for one, am enjoying my life.....curiosity is a fabulous part of being human.

edit:
Oh, and, I'm not worried.

edit on 5-3-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

I was just sort of carrying on what you were talking about.

I like fitting in the pieces of the jigsaw as i find them and when you get the elites letting you know they are around I always use that as a further guide as to what i'm talking about at that time is the truth. so I talk about it even more

I'm glad your not worried the key to this life is being happy

Many people have been persecuted throughout history, next they will tell us that the Jews were not really slaves, just underpaid migrant workers. I have read some very liberally narrated history books, and they seem to have had the wool pulled over their eyes as well. Isn't the mere accusation this book makes some kind of persecution? Aren't modern day Christians persecuted in parts of Africa and in the Middle East, or even 19th century Japan?

reply to post by jinni73

well common sense would be a starting point

Egypt was clearly based on astrology and so was Greece

How about dealing with my evidence which already trumps and predates your own before telling me what to search next.

how is educating people what the religion is really based on off topic on a topic about myths about the christian religion

The topic is early christian martyrdom not Sabbath keeping is Saturn worship. Post your 'argument' on my thread relating to the beasts mark (in my signature). There I will respond properly

mine is based on fighting these elites and bloodlines and them showing me stuff that if you haven't got a reference point you wont believe

Yours is based on brainwashed scapegoat front-man tactics of the Satanic NWO...a subject that I have most likely researched in greater detail than yourself.

see what your intuition tells you

My knowledge of scripture and prophetic insight from Ellen White tells me that the Sabbath was kept by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, that knowledge of the commandments was pasted down from Adam to the generations that followed from the very begining

If you "keep the Sabbath," then you are carrying on the ancient worship of this pagan god.

I keep the Sabbath, it was made to be a memorial to the Creator (Jesus) and to designate His people as His own forever Ex. 31:17; Ezekiel 20:20 (in Heaven as well Isaiah 66:22,23)

the egyptians who drove them out of egypt because they were warmongering all the time

What do you mean 'drove out', they were let go because of the plagues...here is the Egyptian chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea, dislodged from the chariots as per Biblical description.




When you can erase the pictures of the priests of Horus in Tutmoses III tomb throwing their staffs to turn them into snakes, or explain why Tutmoses III second son became heir and not the first (as he died in the 10th plague) then one might start to think your guesses about Egyptians driving them out for warmongering has any credence.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

How about dealing with my evidence which already trumps and predates your own before telling me what to search next.

You are one pushy dude, JG. How about you lay off of demanding that you know everything?
And ordering people 'back on topic' - and to worship on Saturdays and study "your evidence" or else...

tiresome and irritating. How many people have you "converted" and "saved" this week? I'll pray for them.

I asked you in the other thread that you're cluttering up with your baggage, and I'll ask you here, too:

What is your real fear, JG?
That you'll be all alone in Heaven because nobody else will make it there?
You'll get bored chatting up Jesus, or he'll get bored listening to you while he yawns and rolls his eyes and drums his fingers on his throne arm?
That he'll tell you you didn't do enough, or do it well, and the place should be teeming with "saved souls", except that YOU failed to get the invitations out?

Bombarding people with arrogance and pseudo-"proof" and throwing links up that are tedious and questionable and as warped as you are is not a good way to win friends and influence people in the first place. Insulting them adds salt to the wounds. Your pride is astounding, and your character is anything but "Jesus-like."

From what I can tell of you on ATS. Which is fortunately the only exposure I have to you.
Just sayin'.

You ought to be interested in how strangers interpret your manner and your methods, since you hope to reach the whole world. Think of it as helpful criticism.

reply to post by onthedownlow

Aren't modern day Christians persecuted in parts of Africa and in the Middle East

You mean like the ones who are telling people to burn their children alive because the kids are "witches" or "possessed"?
Yeah, they're being "persecuted." Thank God. They should be prosecuted for torture and abuse as well.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by onthedownlow

 

Aren't modern day Christians persecuted in parts of Africa and in the Middle East

You mean like the ones who are telling people to burn their children alive because the kids are "witches" or "possessed"?

No, I imagine the reference is to the 150,000 Christians who are reported to be killed each year for their faith. Today, not a thousand years ago.

In Nigeria, the militant Islamic Boko Haram movement has launched a religious cleansing campaign against Christians in the country’s north. It would be somewhat comforting to regard the atrocities there, which include machete-wielding fanatics attacking pregnant Christian women and young girls, as an isolated case.

Alas, that option is not available to anyone whose eyes are open. Today, Christians are by far the most persecuted religious group on the planet. As a result, defense of persecuted Christians is destined to be the defining religious freedom struggle -- indeed, a defining human rights struggle -- of the early 21st century. (Source)

reply to post by adjensen


These are the people I'm talking about. This article is from 2009. Not a thousand years ago.
African Children Denounced As "Witches" By Christian Pastors

EKET, Nigeria — The nine-year-old boy lay on a bloodstained hospital sheet crawling with ants, staring blindly at the wall.

His family pastor had accused him of being a witch, and his father then tried to force acid down his throat as an exorcism. It spilled as he struggled, burning away his face and eyes. The emaciated boy barely had strength left to whisper the name of the church that had denounced him – Mount Zion Lighthouse.

A month later, he died.

Nwanaokwo Edet was one of an increasing number of children in Africa accused of witchcraft by pastors and then tortured or killed, often by family members. Pastors were involved in half of 200 cases of "witch children" reviewed by the AP, and 13 churches were named in the case files.

Some of the churches involved are renegade local branches of international franchises. Their parishioners take literally the Biblical exhortation, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

"It is an outrage what they are allowing to take place in the name of Christianity," said Gary Foxcroft, head of nonprofit Stepping Stones Nigeria.

reply to post by wildtimes


Yes, that's horrible, though I hardly see how it justifies diminishing the fact that Christians are being persecuted in the world today. If 150,000 deaths aren't enough to describe it as persecution, what would your number be?