Petrine Doctrine of Papacy...Authority as God’s self appointed church exposed

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

It is regrettable that Christianity is so heavily associated with the Catholic church in the general public's mind. The Catholic's, through this false appointed authority, have drastically altered Christianity from what the Bible teaches to the point that really blurs the line of whether it should be called Christianity at all. At least when the general public hears of things going on in the Catholic church I just wish it was better understood just how far removed and apostate they from scriptural teaching.

It ain't just Rome that has gotten away from the Apostolic church, much of christianity has gone it's own way, compromising morality and teaching to win proselytes. Literally no church or establishment is free from the guilt of doing this, no matter what denominational affiliation. Fingerpointing at others doesn't solve the problem.

Right now christianity is pretty well fractured into thousands of tiny little pieces, each with their own particular teaching, the only thing tying any of us together is belief in Christ and the shedding of his blood for our transgressions and his resurrection and ascension and that is the core message of Jesus' admonitions in the letters to the 7 churches in Revelation "to return to your first works".

His law was just one: Treat others the way you would want to be treated. It was this one command that fulfills all the law and the prophets.

Yes Rome is in the spotlight, Jesus never commanded us to get involved in politics or the way of the world and he never told us to rule this world, so Rome is being punished for stepping outside the bounds of what he taught. As part of the body of Christ you should act like Christ. Jesus didn't play games with people, or play politics, the things he criticized the pharisees the most about was they would go to extraordinary lengths to be in the spotlight and then they loved being in the spotlight, and getting the attention and being peacocks.

The only way back from this madness is to return to the first church, to the first century and go back to our roots and back to the Apostles and thats why i declared nondenominational. There is only one church, the church of Christ. If you declare anything other than the church of Christ, then you are of that and not Christ, so there can be no "roman catholic church", no "baptist church" no "assembly of God", no "methodist church", no "SDA church", if you're a christian then you are a christian and of nothing else and that is how it needs to be. One Shepherd, one people.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

go back to our roots and back to the Apostles and thats why i declared nondenominational.

It is a wise move to have the pursuit to got back to the roots of Christianity. Much can be learned from this studying. I have to admit though that I really know nothing about what is taught at a nondenominational church. My uninformed opinion in this area is that they would have to decide what areas to teach and what not to teach on so as to remain denominational neutral.

Do they teach on prophetic understanding of Daniel chapters 7, 8 and 9 and Revelation at all? Or do they offer a range of ways of interpreting what it means and just say that it is up to each person to decide (leave people hanging in the air)?

What do they teach about the creation story....is it emphasized that it was a literal 6 days and that the Earth is only approx 6,000 years old and do they provide scientific evidence for this or do they not teach on how to interpret this story (so as to remain neutral)?

What do they teach about a person's need to repent from sin, the doctrine of hell, the immortality of the soul, the purpose of our creation in relation to the battle between Satan and God, the millennium period, and what commandments of God to follow?

My impression of what a non-denominational church would be like would be one where they would talk much on the concept of justification but not on sanctification. Where you would get a lot of emphasis on basics like personal prayer but on issues that require investigation and interpretation they would be very lacking in what they could teach people.

From my understanding of what you follow now it seems to be more Calvinistic in approach and with no need for one to repent from transgression or to have a law to follow and a stronger emphasis on Israel being the beast power of Revelation (unless my memory fails me and I mistaking you for someone else). I don't know if this is what is taught at a non-denominational church but for me this would not be characteristic of a neutral position (in fact I think all of those positions are scripturally wrong).

Although advocating for a non-denominational church would be a good move for many, to concentrate on the basics of Christianity....I don't know if I would go as far to say that what they teach is theologically correct in light of the whole Bible and what the apostles taught.

I would personally feel unfulfilled being in a non-denominational church (if my assumptions about what they teach, and the depth of their teaching is correct) and if I grew up in one, it would be hard to say whether I would even have decided to remain a Christian into my adult years as it was my church's material on proving the truth of God's word through the evidence of science, archaeology, and geology...being able to see God as in control, powerful and knowing the end from the beginning by the material my church has on prophecy fulfilment...being able to understand our purpose on Earth and why Satan still exists here (by reading Ellen White's books Patriarchs and Prophets, or The Truth About Angels)...and the catalyst for being able to connect with Jesus deeply at a personal level (in reading The Desire of Ages).

Without my church's teaching on prophecy understanding and the three angels messages in Revelation 14 I would have little idea of what God wants me to do now, what stage of history we are up to, or how the world really operates. I dare say it that I would probably be most absorbed in the world of making money in the investment management industry as main/sole focus in life if it wasn't for the knowledge I have learnt in my church which is knowledge that is basically not taught from any other Christianity.

I don't think nondenominational is for me. I owe much to my church and see no scriptural reason that anything my church teaches is wrong...so there is no need in my mind to go anywhere else.

The only thing I don't like about my church is people with too much Biblical knowledge generally sitting on their hands and not sharing it enough with others (the poster child of the Laodicean church). I wish there were many more SDAs on ATS talking on issues of liberty and religion....then people would not just be exposed to my blunt personality (which has low tolerance for BS) so much. It would be nice to see a softer side represented.

I have come across the parallel passage in the gospel of Mark and Luke which I will include. As I have said before, if Jesus was going to include such an important doctrine as to establish a whole earthly hierarchy of his church which would have the power to alter practices away from what scripture designates He would have repeated it in ways to make it clearer.

Mark 8:27-30 English Standard Version (ESV)

Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ
27 And Jesus went on with his disciples to the villages of Caesarea Philippi. And on the way he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that I am?” 28 And they told him, “John the Baptist; and others say, Elijah; and others, one of the prophets.” 29 And he asked them, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter answered him, “You are the Christ.” 30 And he strictly charged them to tell no one about him.

Luke 9:18-22English Standard Version (ESV)

Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ
18 Now it happened that as he was praying alone, the disciples were with him. And he asked them, “Who do the crowds say that I am?” 19 And they answered, “John the Baptist. But others say, Elijah, and others, that one of the prophets of old has risen.” 20 Then he said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” And Peter answered, “The Christ of God.”

Jesus Foretells His Death
21 And he strictly charged and commanded them to tell this to no one, 22 saying, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.”

For a doctrine that would have so far reaching implications it is sure strange that it was not repeated in the two other places the story was relayed again.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


Nondenomination are just people who do not declare any particular doctrine from a specific church. I can go to a pentecostal, baptist, methodist etc. church because i make no distinguishment between brothers and sisters. I myself lean towards the Apostolic church because i believe it is important to understand our hebrew roots and to know the past and the only way to do that is through the old testament. Some may think of me as a jew, but i don't deny Jesus. I fully understand that we are close to jews, as 2000 years ago Rome and the surrounding peoples didn't make a distiniction between christians and jews, since christianity at the time was seen as a jewish uprising and we do indeed have hebrew aspects to our own religion, all you have to do is read Zechariah 4 and have a firm understanding that the feastdays represent events in Revelation.

For all intents and purposes we are the same people, when jews recite Shema the yare saying the Lord is their God, they just do not know he is Yeshua yet which means "Salvation". So when they say "the Lord is my salvation", it comes out like "the Lord is my Yeshua". Go ahead and read Zechariah 4, you will read about the 2 witnesses of Revelation 11, the 2 olive trees/lampstands and the 7 branch lampstand that is spoken of in Revelation 1 as well.

In relation to the feastdays this is what hey are and their fulfimments:

Pesach (Passover) = Christ's crucifiction
Shavuot (feast of weeks) = Pentecost
Rosh Hashana (feast of trumpets) = Rapture (calling out the Bride)
Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) = Christ's second coming (he judges the nations)
Sukkot (feast of tabernacles/booths) = marriage feast of the Lamb (into millenial reign)

Adam was a prototype of Christ, as his wife was taken from his own body, so too was Christ's bride taken from his.

The temple represents the groom, the city represents the bride. The institution of marriage is to signify the union of bride and groom, temple and city which represents Yeshua becoming the temple of New Jerusalem in Revelation 21. Hebrew tradition holds that when the groom is betrothed he goes away to build the home he and his wife will share, and the bride knows not when he will be done and return for her but she should burn a lamp for him till he returns. It is for this reason why a son shall leave his father's house and he and his wife shall cling together.

Mark 10:6-9

6 But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”


Alpha and Omega, Alpeh and Tau, the beginning and the end. The beginning is the end and the end is the beginning.

"From the beginning" says the Lord "I have proclaimed it".