I figured out how to possibly debunk the Theory of Law of Attraction (aka. how to win a free holiday

I have decided to start a new thread (my first) instead of tagging on from a recent similar thread posted by another ATS member. I think this particular opposing view should deserve its own thread to serve as a caveat emptor. Besides, it just doesn't seem right that anyone arguing against the theory gets less than flattering rebuttal/image.

Well, we have often come across the idea that if we believe something "strong" enough, that something will will be attracted to our lives and materialize - ie. The Law of Attraction. It is indeed a seductive notion and I must admit, I was intrigued too initially (but not smitten enough to buy the book. Sorry, Rhonda.).

This post argues the possibility of no such force of attraction ever exists. If it does, every person suffering from delusion and mental illness will actually be experiencing the very reality they believe in, thus are in no real need of treatment. And the reverse may also be true...every individual experiencing the reality which they believe in maybe mentally ill. Therefore, on the bright side, you should probably be glad if your reality isn't perfect or is just plain lousy.

So why do people claim that the "law" works? I have previously posted the two videos of experiments (re-posted below). If you had no time to watch them, one video showed an entire town duped into believing the existence of a lucky dog statue. It suggested that for people who were optimistic, petting the dog heightened ones' inclination to look for and actively participate in opportunities which subsequently augmented their chances of succeeding or being "lucky". This then prompted them to further support the idea that the lucky dog was real and more participants would then ensue, increasing more "lucky" incidents. It would become a false self-fulfilling prophecy with odds getting better through increased participation. The second video showed a woman who won horse racing bets multiple of times in a row. It explained how the system worked. I will not spoil it for you, but I think most will be surprised by the video. You might want to try and prove the system for yourself too.

People who peddle the idea of the law of attraction, use similar techniques like those peddling religions or spiritual beliefs. If you do not experience "miracles", "awakening" or "enlightenment", it is your fault...you do not have enough faith/patience/effort/passion, your consciousness is denying it, you do not give enough, not in the right frequency/vibration or just not ready, there are other plans for you, etc, etc. You have probably heard it all, and it could make you ashamed or embarrassed, thinking you are not good enough. So you keep quiet about your own "failure". To an extent, you could even make up a false/embellished stories that helps claim your sense of "worthiness" and acceptance by others. Blame it on our herd mentality and the need to keep with the Joneses.

Well, if any of these guys want us to subscribe to the Law of Attraction, why don't they just use the very same law to better humankind as some have correctly suggested? I'm pretty sure no one will refuse a ten million dollar check....Not me. Trust me, I'm all ready - conscious, super-conscious and subconsciously- and I am clean mentally, spiritually, morally and physically. Seriously, I bet they will make a bunch of excuses to deny my rightful ten million$ (which I strongly believe with all my heart they should give me, by the way ). I will use the money to buy their books, donate to their living expenses and get them a holiday package too, if they want me to. I promise I will also become a firm believer of the Law and help them promote it. On top of it all, I will use the law to help attract USD16.5 Trillion dollars for starving children across the globe. Hopefully, the USD will not be like Zimbabwean Dollar by then...

In most situations, although it's a good start, merely believing one can have something will not guarantee that he/she will have it (you can tell that to my ever jealous brother. I tried ). There must be active participation or hard work, good attitude and it wouldn't hurt to have an attractive personality too. Of course, if you don't believe, I wouldn't think you are doomed, either, given all other factors exist. In any case, avoid scamming others as it only hurt your own soul.

The probability of the Law of Attraction proven "valid" increase with the number of people knowing about, believing and participating in it. That is because someone, sometimes is bound to be "lucky". Likely, that was why "The Secret" had to be released with a big bang to work effectively and to render higher probability/leverage. Of course, the chances of the Law being proven a sham/hoax also increase with more people not believing it. There bound to be higher percentage of disbelievers who will still get "lucky". And Rhonda probably hates that to happen so she needed to increase her odds by aggressive marketing...I mean enlightenment process, using well-known actors...I mean spiritual gurus.

Anyone who wishes to debunk this debunking of the Law, please feel free to attract that ten million dollars to me (directly or indirectly) in the next 10 days...well, let's make it 30 days and not a day longer. My arms are open wide as my mind is and full of true optimism. I shall post an update once the time frame is up, and if I receive the USD10 million, I shall post a retraction to this thread. Please get to work immediately and start thinking about one holiday destination (beaches, white sands, coconut trees...this visualization might just help in your reaffirmation process).

PS. If I were you (anyone) reading this post, I will take up the above challenge. You'd lose nothing and a free holiday to gain...yeah, I may just get that ten million in the next 30 days. Who knows? One thing, I promise I will not label you derogatorily as a pessimist of my debunking theory. Que sera-sera.

Always,
Kurius


Video 1 - Derren Brown: Secret of Luck



Video 2. Derren Brown: The System

reply to post by Kurius


What do you think about this though?



This is not just ONE person doing this. People over youtube were doing it, and almost ALL of them had the same results. There are only a FEW that did not have any results. Even some atheists (non-believers) tried it and it still had an effect [1].

On the one hand, it seems like it does not work, but on the other hand, why do experiments like this work affecting PHYSICAL?

At 30 minutes in Tom Campbell explains here how the Law of Attraction works, but then you also have to believe in his theory that we're living in a simulated reality...

reply to post by KBadger


I was listening until he said that we shouldn't be making requests on Law of Attraction for "Ego". We are human beings. Humans are gonna be human. It makes sense. They want to get rid of the "Ego" so that they can be easier to control. Notice all of these New Age people claiming they have no "Ego" living in the "Moment" and letting anything happen.

reply to post by arpgme


I just think it's a harmless experiment to see if soaked rice could understand Japanese.
Seriously though, this experiment could be redesigned to prove or debunk "The Law of Attraction" by altering the words to "sweet" and "sour" instead of "thank you" and "idiot". Anyone care to try and tell us know if you get sugar or lemonade by the end of the experiment? If that works, we should test "gold" and "diamond" as the next words!

reply to post by KBadger


Tom Campbell conducts workshops. Does he render his services free of charge? Is Monroe Institute free? Why would anyone/institution charge people money if they claim they can attract it (without Ego)? And what could be more ego-less thing to do than to use the supposed law of attraction to bring harmony, peace, happiness to the universe and all the beings? If you ask them, you will probably hear more reasons why it can't be done. Could the limit of the law be only to increase enrollment to their workshops and squeeze money out of the weaks? But wait...aren't the promotional materials on Youtube free?

Common sense would also question why Rhonda Byrne should sell "The Secret" books. Why didn't she give them away for free or make them digitally downloadable, after all she should use the law to attract unlimited riches without preying on the needy, shouldn't she? She probably would reason that when it was free, people wouldn't appreciate it or take it as seriously. My argument is if something really works, you don't need to subscribe a dollar/fiat currency value for it to be appreciated. Why not try and see?

Anyhow, I'm quite certain the digital version of "the secret" must already be circulating free on the internet, much to the author/publisher disapproval and dismay.

reply to post by arpgme


I am not out against "new age" movement or any religion. There are positive aspects to everything and I cannot generalize everyone in one group based on some (mis)-representatives that tend to be more outspoken/visible. The point of this thread is just to highlight that it is always commendable to be enlightened with some logic and common sense too sometimes. Leap of blind faith may cause serious fall.

reply to post by Kurius


Well neither Tom Campbell or The Monroe Institute are actually anything to do with the law of attraction, they research altered states of reality. In Campbells theory of our reality being a simulated one then the law of attraction can be explained, as can so many other weird and wacky things. He also encourages complete and total skepticism in anything he says.

reply to post by arpgme


Could you explain how a lack of ego would make someone easier to control? If anything fear based ego is what makes us easily controlled.

reply to post by KBadger


In that video, Campbell asserted he believed the Law of attraction actually worked, which possibly implied he(they) had proven it so. If that is the case, and he is part of Monroe Institute, why not just use the law to attract their primary income from other sources (like from the too rich and powerful, for example) and provide their services free to others in order to help humanity as a whole advance? Anyone who publicly endorses the Law of Attraction should certainly be viewed with complete and total skepticism.

Just visited their website...C'mon, US$1995 for mental, emotional, and spiritual growth in a six-day in-house workshop? One can only question if they are mentally, emotionally and spiritually that evolved to have such a program. It implies that you must be of certain financial standing to learn to grow in their institute, I know most people in the world can't afford it. And is there a money-back guarantee if you don't think you grow as you should? How do they empirically measure mental, emotional, spiritual growth before and after, anyway? I bet if they manipulate someone/small group to proclaim (loudly) he/she benefits tremendously, awakened or is "healed", the rest of the participants would also follow and claim the same. It is unlikely you will openly confess you do not grow as it will only make you feel more inferior than you were prior to enrolling in the workshop.

reply to post by KBadger


Personally, I think Ego could serve in positive and negative manner. Nothing is ever exclusively one way or another.
Having said that, I can also see the positive side in selling the concept of the Law of Attraction. It could potentially make believers more focused on their aims and that's the extent of its benefit that I can think of.

**UPDATE: It's been two weeks since I posted the challenge in this thread. No one Law of Attraction "guru" or believer has taken it up yet. It only further proves that The Law of Attraction has only been about attracting riches to self-interest individuals/groups who sell books, seminars, etc or anyone related to them somehow. Or maybe I'm getting ahead of myself???...still two weeks to go before the deadline. Waiting patiently and Kurius.

reply to post by Kurius


This is proof of law of attraction. You wanted and believed it could be disproved, and you attracted the exact results that you were expecting...

You get what you focus on and expect...

You expected to prove it wrong and in your mind/universe you did...

I'd love to know what the actual mechanism is behind the Law of Attraction.

Before anyone says belief,concentration,willpower,positivity I know that but how exactly does my mental state create an effect on the physical world.

Don't talk about energy please whether it's spiritual or mental/thought energy as they're just catch all phrases that mean little,they can't be disproven as theirs nothing their to disprove.

What form does spiritual or mental energy take ??

Is it radiant,thermal,electromagnetic,nuclear,chemical ?

Is it potential or kinetic ?

Don't bring quantum physics into it without explaining exactly how it pertains to this Law.Simply saying bizarre things occur on the sub atomic level like entanglement doesn't mean that the doors open to any mumbo jumbo.

Quantum physics is used as a get out for all sorts of mad disbeliefs,particles can be in two places at once or disappear and the double split experiment proves light is aware of when it's being observed therefore the laws of physics are out moded and no longer apply.

No,no,no it simply means science hasn't yet discovered the fundamental yet natural laws that fully explain certain aspects of the sub atomic world,it doesn't prove magic exists.

Also saying science can't fully explain the sub atomic means any theory is viable including my beliefs can alter the physical world is a fallacy.The sub atomic world is a real phenomena that can be observed,how can you observe the Law of Attraction in action.How can human concepts and ideas that are intangible impressions in my mind interact with physical reality ??

If the Law of Attraction works why aren't I sharing a bed with Jennifer Anniston and Michelle Keegan while playing in the worlds greatest band.

If people who believe enough make it happen then whatabout the people who have bad things happen,is that a result of negative thinking ?

Why don't the starving millions in Africa just wish and believe then they'll get plenty of food.

Now,nobody can doubt the power of being positive.It makes you upbeat,more appealing to be around so you'll benefit from more social contacts which will more often increase the likelyhood of oppurtunity coming your way.Plus popular people are more likely to come to mind when somebody is looking to offer oppurtunity.

Negative thinking,likewise makes someone less good company,social interaction is less forthcoming along with the oppurtunities.

That's as far as it goes.

the "law of attraction" is a way of describing the opposite of what is happening. First, there is no law, and second, what is really happening is projection. Energy from within is projected to create a reality to interact with. There is no outside, only in. The rest of the world would perceive that I "attracted" something when in fact I projected it.

reply to post by arpgme


Not so fast. First of all, the challenge is for you (or any true believer) to attract riches to me (I don't have to be a believer as long as you are. I am certainly open to be made filthy rich). Besides, the reason I am putting up the challenge indicates my being open to the possibility that LOA could exist. I don't believe yet it could be disproved until I see the outcome. Honestly, I would very much like it to be true and plead to people like you to attract that US$10 million to me by the end of this month (and you will definitely get that free holiday. I promise!). It shouldn't be that difficult to do, I heard? As I said and hereby declare again, I am prepared to spread the truth either way.

Seriously, if you can get that $10 million for me, I would like to understand why Rhonda Byrne and others alike should be selling their books and seminars instead of giving them away free of charge. It can't be selfishness or greed on their parts, could it? This thread only offers the theory that they are playing with the odds...the more people play the game, the higher chances of someone claiming LOA works. Never mind those who couldn't get what they want even when they practice the procedure exactly. They can be dismissed as easily you are trying to dismiss my rightful $10 million.

reply to post by fastbob72


They would probably say that you are not practicing the Law of Attraction well enough/correctly to sleep with Jeniffer Aniston. The fact that you probably don't look remotely as good as Brad Pitt is immaterial.

reply to post by crankyoldman


Sounds interesting....please illustrate by example. Are you saying if I project myself as a trillionaire, I can buy the Bill Gates' mansion plus a fridge full of Haagen-Dazs ice cream without finding myself in a straight-jacket and getting locked up?

Originally posted by Kurius
reply to post by arpgme

 

Not so fast. First of all, the challenge is for you (or any true believer) to attract riches to me (I don't have to be a believer as long as you are. I am certainly open to be made filthy rich). Besides, the reason I am putting up the challenge indicates my being open to the possibility that LOA could exist. I don't believe yet it could be disproved until I see the outcome. Honestly, I would very much like it to be true and plead to people like you to attract that US$10 million to me by the end of this month (and you will definitely get that free holiday. I promise!).

You would "like" it to be true - meaning that you really don't believe that it is. Trying to "create/attract" in another person's life, is like, trying to use mind control.

No matter how positive we are, according to law of attraction, if we are positive then WE will see it in OUR life, and if YOU are NEGATIVE then no matter how positive the person is, you will still most likely find something negative out of it.

A person trying to create/attract in your life to give you money, will still be attracting from THEIR mind to THEMSELVES. You would need to do it from your own mind as that is YOUR attractor.

reply to post by arpgme


Ok. Let's do it this way. Since you seem to be an expert in LOA please attract $10 million to you by the end of the month. Send me $9 million. You can keep $1 million as tips. And let me be generous...I shall still include the free holiday trip .How's that? I trust I won't hear another reason/excuse that can't be done?