South African police caught on camera dragging handcuffed man behind van (Warning graphic video)

Police brutality is a global issue, people power trip and predators seek jobs where they can do what predators do best, kill things.

Cops killed my Uncle. They beat him during the arrest, and refused him medical care even though he begged all night for them to help him. He died of internal bleeding. All I remember is going to his funeral as a child.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Actually both
Thanks for the response, I wrote a paper on the moors murders in the UK and know what you mean, disturbing stuff indeed.
Outcome 2 life sentences, Grade A

reply to post by cody599


Well three were involved in the murder.

1 was given lethal injection
the other is still on death row
the other life in prison

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by cody599

I know SA police are armed
But surely in a crowd that large it was a dangerous thing to do, I'm still amazed they weren't lynched on the spot.

You know, I was thinking about that very thing as I watched the video in this thread. The CNN one cuts off before the van actually starts driving away.

I wonder... would we see that happen here in the U.S. and not also see people outright attack the police on the spot? Years ago? Such a suggestion would have been bordering on insane. Unthinkable. Now? I'm not so sure. American police may find themselves being beaten down and without mercy once the crowd understood the suspect had been cuffed to the bumper and the intent was to drive off with him in that position.

I think the rage here is actually reaching the point where citizens may over-run police who were seen to be doing anything like this here. Maybe not, too. I may be assuming too much, even now...but I think it's a distinct possibility.

reply to post by WaterBottle

Dont be so sure of that-they watch tv,have access to exercise yards,enough food,a bed to sleep in-did you not know,in my country jail is really not a big deterrent.Even drugs can easily be procured.Escapes occur often,because of the bribery of prison guards,eg since 1994-since the ANC took over the courts,police,justice system,prison system-is all in a shambles,quite a joke,if not so dismaying.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by cody599

 

I know SA police are armed
But surely in a crowd that large it was a dangerous thing to do, I'm still amazed they weren't lynched on the spot.

You know, I was thinking about that very thing as I watched the video in this thread. The CNN one cuts off before the van actually starts driving away.

I wonder... would we see that happen here in the U.S. and not also see people outright attack the police on the spot? Years ago? Such a suggestion would have been bordering on insane. Unthinkable. Now? I'm not so sure. American police may find themselves being beaten down and without mercy once the crowd understood the suspect had been cuffed to the bumper and the intent was to drive off with him in that position.

I think the rage here is actually reaching the point where citizens may over-run police who were seen to be doing anything like this here. Maybe not, too. I may be assuming too much, even now...but I think it's a distinct possibility.

edit on 28-2-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

In the UK I think it would depend on the area it happened.
In a deprived inner city area the police would without doubt have been beaten to a pulp.
In suburbia it would be more sort of "Bloody right too get that riff raff way from us in a timely manner, who do they think they are parking on the wrong side of the road and bringing down the price of my property, I pay my taxes and good to see they are being used to good effect"

We are such a bunch of hypocrites in the UK
But at least we are 'free'

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Yes South Africa has a longtime culture of violence,all the way back to the tribal wars.Then Apartheid and the struggle-and now the ANC government that cares little if at all about the atrocious crime rate.Yes,there are cases of Police brutality,but i would propably feel more nervous around American cops than our own.

During the struggle,the ANC urged all black citizens,even children,to "make the country ungovernable" Well now their chickens have come home to roost.On top of a culture of violence,a culture of deliberate lawlessness was added.Did the ANC really expect that the culture of lawlessness and corruption they encouraged,would end the moment they came to power? Well..ooops-it did'nt.And aspects of that lawless violent culture has of course its tentacles in the police force too.

There's a lot of xenophobic hate crimes and attacks too.Folks who think violence in my country is Just black against white,would be mistaken.Many nationals from other African countries have been murdered too,though propably not by the police in those cases.

I've posted a lot across ATS on police brutality in South Africa over the years.
Most of it, including the death of Andries Tatane, didn't get much interest.
See for example: www.abovetopsecret.com...

For once it seems the UN and the world are showing some concern about what is happening in SA.
Since 2010 military-style ranks were brought back to the South African Police Service, and there was open talk about making the SAPS a paramilitary force.
en.wikipedia.org...
The press (notably 3rd Degree) had already focused on one paramilitary unit called the "Amaberete" (due to their distinctive berets).
Apparently their paramilitary training was because they were supposed to handle the toughest and most violent criminals, like cash-in-transit gangs (many of whom had military training from the former liberation movements, or were rogues from other African militias).
However, they quickly got press attention for brutalizing patrons at pubs and bars, or simply doing as they pleased.
They are also fairly untouchable, and even assault other cops.
This unit was also apparently used at Marikana.

South Africans can be pretty volatile when incited as a mob (and there are usually conspiracy politics behind a lot of mob behavior, where the mob feels they have a permission from political factions to act with impunity).

However, as individuals most South Africans have had bad experiences with the police and would be slow to get involved in any scenario involving the cops.
Police brutality is a daily occurrence in SA, and it affects all communities.
It can be read from the cheap daily tabloids to the major newspapers, where it hardly still makes the first few pages.
Even when there is rioting and looting, rumors often surface of police involvement, also in cases of xenophobia, where foreign-owned shops are looted.

There's a blog titled "Crimes of the South African Police Service" (although it focuses largely, but not exclusively, on instances of where the white minority are targeted. Like many blogs critical of SA it might not be T&C friendly, and I'm still examining it, although anyone can Google it).

I'd say compared to the past, and the recent past, the crowd in this video clip is actually very pro-active.
Filming becomes an act of resistance.
Believe me when I say that I admire the courage of the people shouting and motioning in this clip.
They are very brave.

There were 8 cops involved in this scenario.
That's not a small number of armed and trigger-happy SA cops.

One common form of police torture is to simply throw members of the public into their van and then drive at full speed over a bad road.
There's nowhere to hold on in those vans, and you will be thrown around and battered with the mental terror of thinking that when they crash, you will have no escape from any flames, and you will be roasted alive.
Apparently that's quite legal (just performing their duties with a suspect in the back), and it won't even be investigated.

In communities with African foreigners many will be here illegally, and the corrupt cops will know who they are.

Nevertheless, I saw on E-News that the community was making threats indicating vigilante action if the cops were not arrested.
One cop already had the nickname "Brutal".
So some are known for this behavior.

Our current police commissioner, Ria Phiyega explained her lack of qualifications for the job with a dismissive logic: "You don't need to own a bottle-store to be an alcoholic".

At the Farlam Commission into the Marikana shootings she famously laughed as grieving widows collapsed while viewing the footage of their husbands being shot.
The clip is on p.1 of my thread on Marikana: www.abovetopsecret.com...

But then what did the world expect from a liberation movement that put its own members into concentration camp prisons in Angola and Tanzania (like Quatro, for example, which made Robben Island look like a holiday camp where conditions were held to international scrutiny and many prisoners got degrees)?
The world's liberals have been duped.

Anyway, the reaction of the ANC ministers seems so false.
Maybe arrests will follow due to an international incident over the clip.
Maybe they won't even bother.
I sure as hell know their hearts don't bleed for any of their citizens.
It's also known that innocent people are simply arrested to make up arrest quotas.
Once in the system they could await trial for months or years, and they could be raped, abused or even tattooed while awaiting trial.
We're clearly in a dictatorship already, and a cover of democracy is allowed as long as an ANC majority is certain.

I think we're meant to fear the cops and the state.

Investigative journalist clips on police brutality in South Africa.

This behavior sets the scene and context of the current clip.

3rd Degree on the "amaBerete" (part 1 from Youtube):




Some of Cato Manor's Organized Crime Unit members are arrested for alleged 28 (perhaps up to 50) murders and planting weapons on suspects.

Typically, and understandably, some commentators have sympathy for the police in the face of violent criminals.
Others might question why this specific unit was suddenly targeted.
It seems they had free reign under the police's "shoot first" policy, until they shot an ANC branch chairman as a violent criminal in September 2011 (see 14 minutes into the clip).
Suddenly the politicians changed their tune on the unit.
However, the danger to the public by "rogue cops" is becoming more dominant as a sentiment.



Well, whatever the case above, in the OP clip the cops are clearly shown torturing an ordinary citizen, and their usual excuses just won't work.

A taste of things to come: 2008.
Police raid a pub in the laid-back student town of Stellenbosch, while performing several illegal acts (allegedly, including firing into the ceiling and planting a package at the bar minutes before the raid, images of which were later splattered across the tabloids).

The relevant police spokesman said on radio the following day that he couldn't watch the footage on the news because the police station didn't have a television, and thus he "could not comment".

reply to post by cody599


I saw this on the news today. What I found so shocking about this video was the total indifference of the police to the presence of so many witnesses objecting to their actions. This speaks volumes about their confidence that the system will protect them.

Well if my little voice from across the world can be heard on behalf of decent people, then let South Africa wake up and realize this kind of behaviour is monstrous, barbaric, and not at all what your country's expressed dream for equal justice was.

This police force needs a very serious overhaul.

reply to post by aboutface


Yeah it's strange isn't it ?
If I had posted the same video but with Israei soldiers and a Palastnian it would have provoked complete outrage across ATS

There's are many posters suggesting that a large group of the population in the US is ready for a civil war. They are wrong.

Unfortunately, I think that if we see a bloody civil war in the next 5 years, it's going to be in South Africa. This place currently does have the necessary ingredients for a civil war. In fact you could say that the civil war has already started, it's just that one side is winning.

The cynic in me says so what. How many people are killed in police custody in Britain. Rarely hear about that on the news.

Some people are utterly clueless as to what goes on in their own backyard. They might not get away with murdering people in the streets (although often they do) but that doesn't stop them beating you to death in your cell. Out of sight out of mind I guess

Originally posted by cody599
I'm not allowed to google during dinner

That's what happens when you marry a South African woman Gotta love them

So 8 officers have been arrested for murdering this man, it's a shame their punishment can't be bring handcuffed to a van and dragged through the streets, would seem fair I think.

Anger and emotion aside, this was a wicked, cruel thing they did and to fire at the crowd to stop them helping the man is just sick. They dragged this man through the streets in front of the public.
Just sick and attrocious behaviour.

I just found out about this today and started a forum, but luckily this one is better and has more information than the news I found.

I am just furious that this man was put in a cell after the dragging ordeal (instead of a hospital) and then even worse now to find out he was beaten even further when he got there?

This world is truly out of control.

Originally posted by halfoldman
I've posted a lot across ATS on police brutality in South Africa over the years.
Most of it, including the death of Andries Tatane, didn't get much interest.
See for example: www.abovetopsecret.com...

But then what did the world expect from a liberation movement that put its own members into concentration camp prisons in Angola and Tanzania (like Quatro, for example, which made Robben Island look like a holiday camp where conditions were held to international scrutiny and many prisoners got degrees)?
The world's liberals have been duped.

Best post i've read of yours yet, thank you.



I remember sitting at the TRC at Regina Mundi in Soweto listening to the stories of Quattro. Torture, brutality and deprivation. The only thing worse was the naming of then minister of defense Joe Modise in the TRC as a brutal guard, who had committed many "human right's abuses" at that time. While i watched the news crews filming the testimony, i never heard about it again.

Mandela's few years on Robben Island were a picnic compared to his compatriots in ANC camps, that is true. But few know that in prison mandela was also accomodated in a prison warders house of his own, where he was the functioning head of the ANC. Obviously he was monitored, but it wasn't a cell for 27 years. And frankly, he planted a bomb in a train station, that's terrorism, and murder. So yes, he deserved every single day he got. Funniest thing is, he was released in 1990 because the government was scared he would die in prison, and he's still alive. More alive than all the people the ANC has killed since then.

He also never renounced the armed struggle, PW Botha offered him freedom ig he renounced violence, he refused.

Originally posted by KaelemJames

Originally posted by cody599
I'm not allowed to google during dinner

That's what happens when you marry a South African woman

Gotta love them

Don't worry I won't make the same mistake twice

*Ducks*

reply to post by halfoldman


Worth a read

That was a great post
I missed it first time around. Thanks for linking it