American Student Punished for Refusing to Salute and Recite Mexican Pledge

Originally posted by tadaman
reply to post by blupblup

 

when losing an argument people often resort to grammar corrections....

thanks!

No probs man

You said you wanted me to be silly, to not take it seriously.

Right...


What are your points, questions... lay it out and we'll try again.

Originally posted by tadaman


Or type out a defense for a member of MAMBLA. Make it funny. I dont care.

Also... what's MAMBLA??

You're having some difficulty in actually typing and writing coherently, I suggest a little nap, calm down and then come back and try and discuss.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
So I'm a bigot? Against WHO? I dare you ... I REALLY dare you ....

I think you're misunderstanding what Bigot actually means.

Bigot

a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

noun
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Someone who is pigheaded and thinks that they are right no matter what and damn what anyone else says.


I'm not talking about racism, xenophobia or anything like that, so perhaps understand a word before getting all bent out of shape.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Don't be obtuse. I didn't get on the Mexicans for using it. I described how it looked. It looks exactly like the NAZI salute. that's the truth. BTW your continued deflection attempts and insults are off topic. How about you TRY to stay on topic. American STudent Punished for Refusing to Salute and Recite Mexican Pledge.

What??

So you're allowed to spout on about how they look like Nazis (Completely OFF TOPIC) but if anyone challenges you on it you start saying that THEY are off topic??

Have you heard yourself??

Oh wow


Almost everything you've posted is off topic... your constant snipes and sly digs... constantly mentioning Nazis, which is NOTHING to do with the topic.

How about YOU try and stay on topic, eh?

reply to post by blupblup


en.wikipedia.org...

sorry, NAMBLA

I suggest you stop being so anal and stop avoiding actually responding to what I post.

Dont think no one noticed that you didnt.......we did.

Again, THANKS! its good for you to show us from time to time how you are fairing in the conversation grammar NAZI......

Now that thats out of the way, will you respond to the post in earnest?

reply to post by tadaman




Yeah... uh huh.


I asked you... what are your points and questions and I'll happily respond, you just ignored.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by blupblup


Read the thread. What do you like want an outline or something?



and I said that you WERE being silly. That you only take your criticism of opposing views as being serious.

but you know that.

*sings...dances.....

for my argument.

1. the girl was never forced to recite or pledge loyalty to another country
2. conscientious objections to reciting mexican or american pledge of allegiance were acknowledged.
3. the girl was given an alternative assignment on the independence of mexico, to which she received an F.
4. without knowing or seeing the alternative assignment, we dont know whether the F was given without merit.


admittedly against my argument.

1. teacher was born in mexico. bias?
2. school did not go about the situation in a fair manner when they removed her from the class and made her sit in office during that period.

at this point in my opinion, the crux of the matter has to do with the alternative assignment and how she did or didn't deserve an F on it.

if she in fact didn't deserve the F and the teacher failed her out of spite and her own loyalty to mexico, yes i have a problem with that.

if in fact the girl did deserve the F, i see no problem with what occurred. the assignment was for a spanish class, and anyone thinking that it was in some way to indoctrinate the children to be loyal to mexico as opposed to the U.S.A are taking this way too far in my opinion. this is politically correct madness at its craziest!!!! the fact remains that refusal of reciting the mexican and or american flag is acceptable and acknowledged by the school district sounds fair enough to me.

reply to post by blupblup

Describes you perfectly.
Now how about you stay on topic ... and we aren't the topic.

ON TOPIC -
Fact - The half-Mexican, fluently speaking spanish student with a Mexican mother, was given an assignment to memorize the Mexican pledge and anthem. She was to perform it with a salute in front of the class.

Fact - The school policy is that no student has to perform the American pledge nor do they have to recite from historical American documents if they are uncomfortable doing so.

Fact - In the spirit of the school policy, the hispanic student did not want to say the pledge or perform the salute. She was punished for not doing it.

Fact - The hispanic Spanish teacher is in her first year teaching Spanish 3 and it was the very start of the school year when this happened (mid september).

What is in question - Did the new Spanish Teacher punish the student and give her a failing grade out of spite or because the student really didn't understand spanish and/or Mexican Independence?

The fact that the student comes from a mixed heritage home (American/Mexican) and that she speaks fluent Spanish ... and considering it's the hispanic Spanish teachers first year teaching this class and it was at the start of the school year and the start of her career as a teacher of Spanish3 .... I think it is very reasonable to see that the Spanish teacher could easily have flunked the girl out of spite.

I look forward to seeing what the lawsuit results are.

As a parent I am concerned about students being forced or intimidated by teachers with agendas. It looks like this new teacher overstepped. Parents have to keep an eye on what is being taught in the schools. More than once we have found agenda in the schools here and have had to correct what was being taught. I applaud the student for being standing up for what she believes in. She didn't just 'shut up and take it'. Good for her. She's not a sheeple.

Originally posted by tadaman
reply to post by blupblup

 

en.wikipedia.org...

sorry, NAMBLA

I suggest you stop being so anal and stop avoiding actually responding to what I post.

Dont think no one noticed that you didnt.......we did.

Again, THANKS! its good for you to show us from time to time how you are fairing in the conversation grammar NAZI......

Now that thats out of the way, will you respond to the post in earnest?

edit on 1-3-2013 by tadaman because: (no reason given)

although i disagree w most of your posts in this thread i have to give you a star for putting nambla and anal in the same reply. also the grammar nazi comparison was pretty funny.

Originally posted by blupblup
Almost everything you've posted is off topic... your constant snipes and sly digs... constantly mentioning Nazis, which is NOTHING to do with the topic.

You just described yourself again. Go back and read your snide posts. Get on topic.

Describing the Mexican salute as being like the Nazi salute IS ON TOPIC.
That is how the salute looks ... and the salute and the pledge are the topic.

Deal with it.

I cant believe this happened in Texas of all places. Texas is known for having it's fair share of constitution lovers. I bet the local community is going nuts over this. Rightly so.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
the crux of the matter has to do with the alternative assignment and how she did or didn't deserve an F on it.

There ya' go.

- It was out of place for the teacher to do the pledge and salute thing.
- Eventually an alternate assignment was agreed on.
- The 1/2 mexican, fluently speaking spanish student who comes from a mexican-American household supposedly did such a poor job that she got an 'F'.
- As well as getting the 'F', she was made to sit in the classroom for a few days and listen to all the students recite the Mexican pledge and do the salute.

Honestly .. I don't see how this can be a Spanish 3 thing. At that level they should be learning verbs conjugation and sentence structure .. not memorizing a pledge and performing it. That's rote learning really isn't something I'd expect to see in a Spanish 3 class.

reply to post by FlyersFan


i would have to argue with your assumption that a mexican american would be automatically fluent in spanish. mexican spanish and spanish from spain differ the same way american english differs from english spoken in england. i would argue that you or i would fail an english class if taken in england.

also you state that objections are only allowed if one refuses to recite american pledge. once again not true. concsientious objections to reciting either the mexican or american pledge have been accepted in that school district.

reply to post by conspiracy nut


During this thread I have found your arguments to be concise and cordial. I can agree with what you just said.
I think most do.

The one issue I take is that the problem is not that she may have been intimidated into pledging allegiance to Mexico. It is that she was asked to do so for any other country. The actual country is irrelevant, but the act in and of itself of pledging allegiance to another country is an affront on what is her right have, which is a strong sense of national pride and loyalty. It is her right to have such a sense of national pride and loyalty and such a mind set would indeed find it offensive to recite another countries oaths.

In a similar manner a devout religious person may take issue with reading from satanic texts, or a person with a history of abuse may have an issue with reading the testimonies of other abused people. Words have a profound effect on our psyche. We need to respect people´s wishes when they say that they can not participate in an activity that compromises their personal ethos.

I agree that if she did a horrible job on the other assignment then she did in fact deserve the grade she got.

in any event it was an actual pleasure having you in this thread. A conversation is mute without a counter argument. You provided yours without crossing any lines and making the exchange unproductive. Thank you for that.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
i would have to argue with your assumption that a mexican american would be automatically fluent in spanish.

I am saying that because the article says she is.

I know that hispanic children aren't necessarily fluent in spanish. My own daughter is 100% hispanic (Bolivian) and she isn't fluent. However, the article said the student was so that's what I'm going on.

also you state that objections are only allowed if one refuses to recite american pledge. once again not true. concsientious objections to reciting either the mexican or american pledge have been accepted in that school district.

Sure ... accepted in the school district .. but not going over very well with the NEW Spanish 3 teacher it seems ....

Originally posted by AshleyD
[Devil's Advocate]

Reading the title caught my attention and sent me into this thread with proverbial guns blazing. But...

...Then I noticed it was for a Spanish class so it didn't get to me as much. I studied both Spanish and French and we did things like this for both. We learned their songs, special holidays, etc. I wrote a paper once about French monuments and had an assignment to bring homemade French food. In Spanish class we learned their culture as well as their language. We even had oral exams where we were to sing Spanish songs for tests/grades.

Upon the thread title, I thought this was something everyone had to do school-wide in home room during the morning announcements or something. That would piss me off- but not just in a Spanish class.

I'll have to think about this a bit.

Why is it the Mexican "pledge of allegiance" in a Spanish class? Spain is part of the European Union.

Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by beezzer
How many English classes on foreign soil make the students recite The Pledge of Allegiance?

Mexico perhaps? I doubt anyone there objects to it. In Europe English class is English class not American English Class.

English class (or English) is used in many areas & locations outside of the US (or Europe), and as such, is not called Europe English or British English. Just English.

Originally posted by rimjaja
All I can say is that Texas has some pretty fakked up school districts and you will never see a more liberal and sanctimonious bunch of teachers and administrators.

When we lived there, my kids were not allowed to get pre-k because they were not hispanic. They were not allowed to celebrate birthdays, Easter, Christmas, thanksgiving, Halloween or any other holiday because it might be " offensive" to the 33% Muslim population. Their cafeteria at school always served one meal that was dreadful but contained meat, and the "fun" meal was always vegetarian ( talk about indoctrination).

I was told that I was not allowed to send homemade cookies for snack time but Diet Coke was on the approved list of snacks.

The school district north of ours had a big fracas in the news because they allowed the Mexican kids to celebrate cinco de mayo but sent home American kids wearing US flag shirts and lapel pins. The same school district hung the Mexican flag in the school atrium but didn't allow the American flag to be hung.

I could go on and on, but needless to say, I am glad we are no longer in a Texas school district.

Nah. Texas is fine.

Your in the wrong part lol.

Go East young man, go East!

Originally posted by rimjaja
All I can say is that Texas has some pretty fakked up school districts and you will never see a more liberal and sanctimonious bunch of teachers and administrators.

When we lived there, my kids were not allowed to get pre-k because they were not hispanic. They were not allowed to celebrate birthdays, Easter, Christmas, thanksgiving, Halloween or any other holiday because it might be " offensive" to the 33% Muslim population. Their cafeteria at school always served one meal that was dreadful but contained meat, and the "fun" meal was always vegetarian ( talk about indoctrination).

I was told that I was not allowed to send homemade cookies for snack time but Diet Coke was on the approved list of snacks.

The school district north of ours had a big fracas in the news because they allowed the Mexican kids to celebrate cinco de mayo but sent home American kids wearing US flag shirts and lapel pins. The same school district hung the Mexican flag in the school atrium but didn't allow the American flag to be hung.

I could go on and on, but needless to say, I am glad we are no longer in a Texas school district.

Where the heck in texas do you live?? I lived right on the border of texas. Elpaso and juarez. I do not recall any of that which you just said you have experienced in texas.

In a nuttshell i will tell you what I experienced when I was in school in texas.

I got spanked when I miss behaved. I punched a kid in the hall way?? spanked. I beat a kid up in the play ground?? spanked I didn't do my math home work 3 times in a row?? spanked.

We had to recite the pledge of allegiance every morning and had a ceremony every morning to raise the flag in the middle of the school grounds.

The teachers would not talk to you or respond to you in spanish even if they knew it fluently. SOme kids would harass other kids for speaking spanish among themselves EVEN if they knew english.

As for the cafeteria. LEts just say sloppy joes were always a big hit followed up by pepperoni pizza. I used to pack my lunch as you still had to pay for your school lunch unless you had special needs. My mother used to pack my lunch for me since I didn't qualify for school lunches unless I payed for them.

I find any of what you say hard to believe. The only thing that was kind of odd was that we were taught hardcore Texas history. We had a whole class dedicated to that.

Given I havent' been in texas for 13yrs but that would be a HUGE change in just a decade.