Lakoff: Why Extreme Conservatives Like the Sequester

Originally posted by macman

I realize that not all are like this, I know conservatives, libertarians - no tea-party or fascists that I know of - but it's all one hears - all our children hear. The OTHER is bad and therefore not human. This is what I reject.

No, as you have been presented this opposite side many times here.
You are ignoring it.
It is not human to expect others to take care of themselves, without the Govt interjecting in it?
People helping people is Human.
Govt taking from one person to give to another is not. It is theft.




Government does not take from one person to give to another. Government by representation is us and we all pay taxes to benefit the whole.

That's the blindness. How can you not see that we, each individual among us, is responsible for 'the government'. However bad you may think it - it is the extension of US whether we vote or not. The government is US and that is what is truly scary.

This blaming the government, the aliens, the bankers is a denial of Personal Responsibly for the situation we are in. Blaming it on someone else is the defence of a three year old.

reply to post by FyreByrd


What is the total federal employee numbers now as compared to 30 years ago?
Regardless if it is in proportion or not, the Govt has grown, and is bloated to say the least.

Originally posted by FyreByrd


Government does not take from one person to give to another. Government by representation is us and we all pay taxes to benefit the whole.

Sorry, but the money stolen from my paycheck does not return to me as a welfare check. It goes to someone else who did not earn it.
Welfare does not benefit me.

Originally posted by FyreByrd
That's the blindness. How can you not see that we, each individual among us, is responsible for 'the government'. However bad you may think it - it is the extension of US whether we vote or not. The government is US and that is what is truly scary.

No. The govt quit being of the people for the people when politicians were able to vote themselves raises and people voted themselves money.
It is was of and for me, then I would not be robbed every 2 weeks and told that I should not only give more, but I should be happy with the situation as well.

Originally posted by FyreByrd
This blaming the government, the aliens, the bankers is a denial of Personal Responsibly for the situation we are in. Blaming it on someone else is the defence of a three year old.

I did not vote in the people doing the things going on in govt I bare no responsibility for that.
You want me to except blame for something I went against.
Ain't going to happen.

reply to post by macman


It's all about you - and what you get. Well all you will get is PITY. I'm done.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Oh I get it. I should be living my life and working to benefit others.
That is a crock of crap.

He who lives only to benefit himself confers on the world a benefit when he dies. ~ Tertullian

If the human race wishes to have a prolonged and indefinite period of material prosperity, they have only got to behave in a peaceful and helpful way toward one another. ~ Winston Churchill

Our greatest duty and our main responsibility is to help others. But please, if you can't help them, would you please not hurt them. ~ Dalai Lama

"You have not lived a perfect day, even though you have earned your money, unless you have done something for someone who will never be able to repay you." ~ Ruth Smeltzer

Originally posted by Bilk22

A better question is why are libs against it? After all it was Obama's idea. Now it's not a good idea?

Oh another question is why does $85billion make a difference in a "budget" (I use that therm loosely as there is no budget) that exceeds $1.5trillion? This is a scam but I can't figure out what it is yet.

edit on 26-2-2013 by Bilk22 because: (no reason given)

I am a lib and I am ok with the sequester. Too bad Congress couldn't be adults and work out sensible cuts instead of across the board type stuff.

That said, I think it is outrageous we have a deficit at all. We pay interest on money we should be creating ourselves and instead let private banks reap the benefits. We pay taxes so we can pay interest to the government retirement funds - use them instead to fund the mortgage market. We refuse to negotiate with drug companies, device makers, etc to lower cost of medicare. We get ripped off on everything we buy for the armed forces and government. We let for-profit corporations drive all our policies. The list goes on and on. The fact that we argue over raising spending a little less is a pretty silly discussion in view of all the above. It should show that there very few in Congress that care one iota about fixing anything.

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical

Originally posted by Bilk22

A better question is why are libs against it? After all it was Obama's idea. Now it's not a good idea?

Oh another question is why does $85billion make a difference in a "budget" (I use that therm loosely as there is no budget) that exceeds $1.5trillion? This is a scam but I can't figure out what it is yet.

edit on 26-2-2013 by Bilk22 because: (no reason given)

I am a lib and I am ok with the sequester. Too bad Congress couldn't be adults and work out sensible cuts instead of across the board type stuff.

That said, I think it is outrageous we have a deficit at all. We pay interest on money we should be creating ourselves and instead let private banks reap the benefits. We pay taxes so we can pay interest to the government retirement funds - use them instead to fund the mortgage market. We refuse to negotiate with drug companies, device makers, etc to lower cost of medicare. We get ripped off on everything we buy for the armed forces and government. We let for-profit corporations drive all our policies. The list goes on and on. The fact that we argue over raising spending a little less is a pretty silly discussion in view of all the above. It should show that there very few in Congress that care one iota about fixing anything.

Well my friend, I couldn't agree more. I think we've both been had by politicians from both sides of the aisle. So what do we do about it? Or is it hopeless?

reply to post by FyreByrd


So my work and life is there to be taken from to give to others?

Nope, not biting into that pile of crap you are pitching.
My family depends on me and my work.
Maybe you and others should start worrying less about my money and property, and more about your own.

Originally posted by Bilk22
Well my friend, I couldn't agree more. I think we've both been had by politicians from both sides of the aisle. So what do we do about it? Or is it hopeless?

Only thing we can do is to keep proposing solutions to fix what is wrong. Write the politicians, talk to people, post on forums. etc. and keep doing it, don't relent. Ultimately, control of our monetary system has to be done in such a fashion that best serves the average American. I think we need the below:

Ban fractional reserve banking - deflationary

Print new non-debt based fiat to pay off the current government debts - inflationary
- align currency creation with productivity of the nation

Fund future governemnt spending with same new fiat - inflationary

Have social security fund / government pensions fund mortgage market going forward - deflationary

Refinance existing consumer debt on a non-profit basis (1% rates?)

In sum these acts would be neutral on inflation, government spending would be cut in half(eliminate deficits), and enough currency would be available for people to stash some away each year. The more savings we have the more the banks would be able to lend.

It is simple ideas that would bring in change. However accepting those new ideas would require us to adopt a new paradigm. i think it could be done pretty pain free if that's what we decided we were going to do.

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical

Only thing we can do is to keep proposing solutions to fix what is wrong. Write the politicians, talk to people, post on forums. etc. and keep doing it, don't relent. Ultimately, control of our monetary system has to be done in such a fashion that best serves the average American. I think we need the below:

Ban fractional reserve banking - deflationary

Print new non-debt based fiat to pay off the current government debts - inflationary
- align currency creation with productivity of the nation

Fund future governemnt spending with same new fiat - inflationary

Have social security fund / government pensions fund mortgage market going forward - deflationary

Refinance existing consumer debt on a non-profit basis (1% rates?)

In sum these acts would be neutral on inflation, government spending would be cut in half(eliminate deficits), and enough currency would be available for people to stash some away each year. The more savings we have the more the banks would be able to lend.

It is simple ideas that would bring in change. However accepting those new ideas would require us to adopt a new paradigm. i think it could be done pretty pain free if that's what we decided we were going to do.

edit on 3-3-2013 by sligtlyskeptical because: (no reason given)

These are all very reasonable solutions, thank you for sharing them. I'm afraid though that they are too reasoned, serve the majority, and, dare I say, anti free-market/socialist to get an open hearing in the USofA.

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical

Originally posted by Bilk22
Well my friend, I couldn't agree more. I think we've both been had by politicians from both sides of the aisle. So what do we do about it? Or is it hopeless?

Only thing we can do is to keep proposing solutions to fix what is wrong. Write the politicians, talk to people, post on forums. etc. and keep doing it, don't relent. Ultimately, control of our monetary system has to be done in such a fashion that best serves the average American. I think we need the below:

Ban fractional reserve banking - deflationary

Print new non-debt based fiat to pay off the current government debts - inflationary
- align currency creation with productivity of the nation

Fund future governemnt spending with same new fiat - inflationary

Have social security fund / government pensions fund mortgage market going forward - deflationary

Refinance existing consumer debt on a non-profit basis (1% rates?)

In sum these acts would be neutral on inflation, government spending would be cut in half(eliminate deficits), and enough currency would be available for people to stash some away each year. The more savings we have the more the banks would be able to lend.

It is simple ideas that would bring in change. However accepting those new ideas would require us to adopt a new paradigm. i think it could be done pretty pain free if that's what we decided we were going to do.

edit on 3-3-2013 by sligtlyskeptical because: (no reason given)

I always thought, or at least it's been intimated that our debt level is justified and measured against GDP. Sort of what you suggested, but obviously there's no formula or law regulating such.

SS was supposed to be self preserving and not be touched, but it became the slush fund to cover other expenditures and debts. It's how Clinton balanced the books. I'm all for "hands off SS", but that will not happen.

The last part? That doesn't serve the banks and they would balk. When their debt exceeded their tolerance levels, we bailed them out. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening the other way around.

I think we can write our reps and post until we're blue in the face and nothing will change. The corruption is pervasive and ingrained. Those that are sitting in Congress are all to comfortable and understand the power they wield. Heck, until recently the rules of insider trading didn't even apply to them. Maybe the only thing I feel Obama has done well since taking office - signing the Stock Act into law. Well maybe one or two more