The Myth of the Separation of Church and State

Hmmm, yes indeed very good, antidisestablishmentarianism

reply to post by adjensen


If one is free to not practice a given religion then that extends to not practicing any religion at all. You've now gone from stating the Establishment and Free Exercise Clause, to "non-religion", to atheism in an attempt to defend your position. What of the deists or rationalists that were some of our very founders? What of some spiritual New-Agers that don't subscribe to any given set of beliefs? What of agnostics and atheists? Will you next make the argument that none of these groups have 1st Amendment rights since they don't follow a religion? Non-religion clearly isn't protected under either Clause, right? I mean, it clearly says "establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Since these aren't religions this is the last remaining logical place you can go with that argument.

You bring up Blue Laws and link a decision determining that there is a valid secular reason for the law to stand which I can understand and make no argument against, though I think it requires some legal imaginative gymnastics to have it make sense. But the majority of Blue Laws no longer stand or are unenforced because they were unconstitutional.

But if I pass a bill that is predicated on my religion, but doesn't require it?

Then it doesn't matter and has nothing to do with the freedoms gauranteed by the 1st Amendment! Let's not use strawmen here. How about we use an actual example like Prop 8 which was heavily sponsored by the LDS and other religious groups to deny homosexuals their rights guaranteed by the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause? We'll see how things go in the Supreme Court starting in a month. I'm wholly confident Prop 8 goes the way of segregation and other ridiculous laws.

As a member of the Freedom from Religion Foundation I'm constantly updated on the progress and successes of the dozens of cases every year that this small organization brings to court. These aren't laws and issues of yesteryear we're discussing, but laws that are being fought, and won, in courts this very day. Court cases fighting for freedom from religion. Cases being fought on behalf of adherents of religions and those who have no religion. I bring this up because there's not an occasional need, but a regular one.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Antidisestablishmentarianism has got to be one of the most ridiculous words in the English language.

I also didn't expect to have to argue against antidisestablishmentarianism 200 years after the fact.

Antidisestablishmentarianism. (Just wanted to type it again.)