I Can Believe the Bible and that the World is Older than 6K

Gap Theory is a popular belief among many Christians. In the original text there is a paragraph break between
Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. People interpret this to mean that God created the heavens and the earth and then some time elapsed and then the earth was without form and void and a second creation began. What happened during that "Gap" or what happened to cause the earth to be without form and void is up to debate. But if you're looking for Biblical evidence that the earth is older than 6,000 years then Gap Theory makes the most sense to me.

If people want to believe in a god then i am happy they have something in their lives that makes them happy.

The thing with the bible is that god didn't write it..its a bunch of ideas put together by humans. I know people claim it was inspired by the christian god but they would have to say that to get anyone to take it seriously.

All in all i think trying to make sense of what those men wrote in that book (that contained mostly stories pieced together from much older non christian religions) in relation to any real events that might have happened in a time where humans didn't exist (so had no way of knowing the exact events that took place) seems a bit pointless.

So if you are christian and you find things in the bible that don't make any sense then just don't worry about it. The bible wasn't written by god so there's no need to have your faith rattled by its mistakes. But at the same time please don't try to judge me or make me live my life by anything that is written in it either

Originally posted by semperfortis


I don't "interpret" anything.. I read and I understand

Of course you know I fully expected replies like that

thats the most stupid and ignorant thing i ever heard.

In fact you don´t do anything else than interpreting it...

"
pah..which typical christian arrogance.."i read and i understand.

jajaja

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by semperfortis
God created humans on the 6th day and then after resting some time could have elapsed, say many thousands of years, THEN and only THEN did God create a man from dust and breathed life, think SOUL, into him. Why else would the creation be mentioned and described twice?

This is because it meant that the gods created humanity first then that Yahweh fella came around and created Adam and Eve. Different gods, different times, and different people.

The thousands of years in between the two creations would explain why there were entire cities for Cain see when he was exiled. When Adam and Eve come into the story, the god that's featured is the Yahweh one who created Yahweh's people. I would even go so far as to say that all of the laws and stories from that point on does not apply to anybody who is not direct descendants of Adam and Eve.

Mind you, I am not of your faith so I am giving you a straight and objective perspective with no agenda other than the spread of reading comprehension.

"The thousands of years in between the two creations would explain why there were entire cities for Cain see when he was exiled. "

Excellent point Cuervo. Many people miss this issue in Genesis. There were Adam & Eve, they had 2 Sons Cain & Abel. Cain killed Abel. Cain was shunned by God, so he fled to a far land, AND GOT MARRIED!!!
TO WHO??? There was only 3 people in the world, and EVE didnt go with him.!

I have proposed this question to pastor's before, most could not answer the question of Who Cain married. But, a smart pastor told me that there were other books of the bible not in the bible that explained this as well as mentioned all the females(daughters) , since the bible does not give the daughters names, only the sons. So being a wise human being I then asked well Why arent those books in the bible then? They were seperated out or removed or changed by the church during the "Dark Ages" because they did not match what they wanted people to believe and did not want certain knowledge to be known by the people.

So, when I see these type of discussions about what the bible says, or how do you interpret it.... I kinda get pissy about it. Because everyone is argueing about an INCOMPLETE BOOK. So for any person to say they KNOW what God wanted or meant is truly insane because we've only been told part of the story!
AND until I see ALL of the bible in it's Entirety, I personally do not read it, and do not believe in it.
I do believe in a higher power that created everything in this universe, at the snap of it's fingers or with a single thought- thus the big bang - and there is a reason for all of this and we do have a soul for some apparent reason, which i think is to be reincarnated multiple times until you can be trusted to be allowed to roam the universe and enjoy it's beauty and not try to change things or be involved with peoples lives.
But, thats just me. lol

So I dont expect anyone else to believe what I do however. But it would make things much simpler. lol

I simply think it can be broken down to this....
You have a good heart, help people, dont take advantage of people, give what you can and do unto others as you would have them do unto you, will allow you to move on once you die. GOOD KARMA. But.....
If your a bad person and hurt people and take advantage of people and situations to benefit only yourself, then you have bad Karma and you will continue to be reincarnated until you get it right, and if by some chance you never do, then you suffer for eternity on the planet Mercury, or one like it. lol

If there is no reincarnation, well then.... you better hope like hell that youve done way more good than bad by the time you die!! lol

reply to post by semperfortis

Sirs;
If you search Genesis and research the meaning used in the original Hebrew, you will find that there has been
much "lost in the translation". It nowhere says that the Earth was created 6000 years ago. Just to mention one
little word used, the word Earth used in Gen:1 is the Hebrew word "Erets" which means dry land. But in the next
verse (2) we see the Earth covered with water and no dry land. Also the Hebrew word used 'darkness" in verse 2
means destruction and misery. So one can see that something happened between verse 1 and verse 2.
Just sayin.., there are many more like these throughout the Bible both in the Old and New Testaments.

reply to post by borntowatch


As a former science teacher, scientific research quite simply is on the side of an old Earth. People who try to fit physical data into a young Earth are really stretching things.

For example, in mid-ocean volcanoes along plates, lava comes up and then hardens. It slowly "drifts" or moves away from the volcanic ridge. This can be measured going back millions of years as one can find hardened lava that clearly came from that ridge but is at a very far distance away. If scientists every year measure the rate of movement of the rock and it comes to something like 1 inch per year, then they can extrapolate the time it took to move.

Young-Earth folk will try to insert something called "Catastrophism," the idea that we can't extrapolate present rates into nature or use these to decide age because there may have been some massive catastrophe that suddenly moved these rocks 1000 miles or so. Similarly, Young-Earth religious folk will assert that its possible that the laws of physics and measurement have changed over time, that our present analysis is illusory in relation to the past. This also is a logical and scientific cop-out. In both cases, the person is making up hypothetical extreme cases. The evidence, however, and extrapolation, does NOT require some huge leap of logic and hypothesis.

The truth is, you folk are trying to fit world we exist in into the outline of an ancient book, one that we really don't know all that went into it, the veracity of the statements, if it was really from God, if mistranslations occurred (both modern and ancient), etc.

As the Bahai religion states, first review all religions, science, and philosophy, THEN choose a belief system, i.e. the one that matches best with ALL available evidence.

Those who are born into a religion or tradition and try to avoid evidence contrary are just operating on cultural download mode.

A scientist is never supposed to, ever, come up with an idea and then force evidence to fit it. They are supposed to find data and evidence and THEN fit models to it. If a model exists and data violates it, then the job of a scientist (or any rationale person) is to update or change the model.

reply to post by semperfortis

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made

I have no idea why people think that "God" has a 24 hour day cycle. Unless he lives on the earth.

maybe the laws of time were different before the creation of man. its possible a day was actually a millennia

reply to post by tzdub


See my post below.

"Young-Earth folk will try to insert something called "Catastrophism," the idea that we can't extrapolate present rates into nature or use these to decide age because there may have been some massive catastrophe that suddenly moved these rocks 1000 miles or so. Similarly, Young-Earth religious folk will assert that its possible that the laws of physics and measurement have changed over time, that our present analysis is illusory in relation to the past. This also is a logical and scientific cop-out. In both cases, the person is making up hypothetical extreme cases. The evidence, however, and extrapolation, does NOT require some huge leap of logic and hypothesis."

Originally posted by dc4lifeskater
reply to post by luciddream

 

If there are other bibles that are older, and you say the christian bible has "borrowed" things from other bibles then how could the bible be true. Because that would contradict what the bible says itself in why/who wrote the bible.

The bible does not say.. This is the christian version, we borrowed some things from other bibles and the world really is older but we decided to say its not and also we added some of our own things in...

The bible was written by MEN not god and not jesus which is clearly stated in the bible itself. Men cannot be trusted, the bible was written as the first forms of law to keep people in line and give them a moral code to live by that the people who wrote the bible felt was the right things to do in life.

Good one. Never thought of it in this light. The fact that.. No celestial being has written anything in the book. Man did it. Interesting. Kind of makes you think..

You can believe anything you want.

reply to post by MamaJ


Where does it state that a day is equal to 1000 years? I was raised a christian, went to christian elementary school, and church every sunday for at least 12 years... Don't remember anything about a day being 1000 years. I've thought about it to myself before, and while my personal interpretation of a "god" is a lot different than most, I also feel that a "day" could be a representation of any amount of time. I really don't think it's supposed to be a literal interpretation... but even if it is, "god" is an infinite being - so a single day to "god" could be trillions of human years to us.

I personally do not buy into the idea that the earth is around 4.5 billion years old though either.. but that's another topic and has been discussed on the boards already in various places.

Age of the Earth

The truth is that many people, even those who are supposedly qualified to teach religious doctrine, grossly misinterpret scripture. It would serve these people well to study all of the literature from around the 1st century AD, if studying New Testament scriptures, and ancient Hebrew literature if discussing Old Testament scripture. Doing so yields great insights into what was influencing people at those specific times. It becomes apparent through studying these writings that there definitely was a specific literary style, or specific style of writing, and that both literal and figurative types of ideas were used. The hard part is determining one from the other, literal from allegorical, etc.

Much of the confusion stems from the fact that people are interpreting everything in the Bible literally. This is a huge mistake. Personally I highly doubt that that the 7 days of creation was meant literally. But here is the thing...It could have been, but that still does not pose a problem. The Bible never states that the creation story, or other stories in Genesis, was directly given by God. Therefore it stands to reason that the ideas could have literally been "made up" by Moses, who is generally accepted as the author of Genesis. Or maybe he had certain knowledge that he misinterpreted. Or maybe, like I said before, the days were not literally "days." Obviously there are inconsistencies in the creation story with what we know about the creation of the universe today.

Even if the Bible's creation story is inaccurate, this does not mean that all or even most of the Bible is inaccurate. I think some make that logical leap, and they would be highly incorrect in doing so. So not only do we have the problem of deciding what is literal and what is not, but we also have the problem of figuring out which parts of the Bible were inspired and written by man, and which were inspired by God and written by man. I do not think anyone actually believes that God really wrote the Bible, although it would not surprise me. From a Christian point of view, I think doctrine leans toward the divine inspiration theory.

What really aggravates me are those people who claim evolution cannot be true, because the Bible does not say it is true, or because the theory disagrees with the Bible. The Bible is extremely vague on the subject of creation in the first place, which to me implies that the author did not have very much information on the subject to begin with. Plus, the technical and scientific knowledge available today was non-existent at that time. And this fits with the idea that man, not God, came up with the creation story. Or there is the possibility that God described creation in this way, which was of no consequence to pre-scientific ancient man, and which would serve today to cast doubt into believers, thoroughly testing their faith. I do not necessarily believe this, but it is a possibility that must be considered.

People think God should make it easy for everyone by simply showing himself, but this would really nullify the entire point of faith. Therefore I think faith plays a very large role in God's plan for the world, because not everyone will be able to put faith into something that cannot be proven. This does not mean it is not true however. Anyway, regarding evolution, who is anyone to think that they know God and His ways well enough to say that He could not have used evolution as a tool of creation? I think that a true God would have created intricate systems, like we understand today, instead of something inherently simple. Our world is the epitome of complexity, yet is extremely simple. It truly seems like the work of an almighty being.

So I think people put way too much faith in the Bible, and not enough faith in God. The Bible, in my opinion, is simply chock full of misinterpretations and inventions by man, whether there was nefarious intent or not. Probably not, but who knows. Most of the history portions of the Bible are trustworthy to a large extent, while some of the OT doctrine is an invention of man, imo. I think that the teachings of Jesus found in the NT are much more accurate and indicative of the true nature of God. If you really research the NT and Jesus' teachings, you will find many similarities with modern day beliefs, which are more scientifically based, like OBE's, the existence of an all powerful Father being, etc. I say scientific, but what I mean is that more easily verifiable today than in ancient times, since we can get accurate 1st hand information and reports, and then test these various reports for consistencies and inconsistencies.

To wrap this post up, as I'm running out of space, I believe that no one should hold steadfast to every single thing the Bible says or teaches. This would be different if the Bible were ever said by a true authority to be the word of God. But the Bible in its current form was non-existent during the times of the OT and NT. Something to think about...

reply to post by semperfortis


Feel free to interprut your fairy tale anyway that makes it comfortable enough for you to believe it. But ultimately, a fairytale it will remain. Only a fool would agree the world was even a few millions years old, let alone only a few thousand and the more "Intelligent" Godslaves have figured this out and all the inconsistensies which come with it, so they do stuff like this.

Christians will eternally push back the goalposts of "What the Bible REALLY meant by this was..." until one day, they run out of field.

... and to give you an idea of how long it took to create the earth, our sun is a 3rd generation star. Meaning, there were 2 stars before it, each larger than the previous and they both went supernova after a nice long lifespan.

Originally posted by Time2Think
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Where does it state that a day is equal to 1000 years?

Age of the Earth

2 Peter 3:8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

- King James Bible "Authorized Version", Pure Cambridge Edition


The idea is creation took 7 days so 7 thousand years. This i believe is the wrong way of looking at it, and that it is refering to gods lifespan. God, is very old, and is not limited to 120yrs as humans which is again pointed out by the tree of life. which luckily eve didnt eat, or we would have ran out of space long ago all being immortal

Originally posted by hisshadow

Originally posted by Time2Think
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Where does it state that a day is equal to 1000 years?

Age of the Earth

2 Peter 3:8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

- King James Bible "Authorized Version", Pure Cambridge Edition


The idea is creation took 7 days so 7 thousand years. This i believe is the wrong way of looking at it, and that it is refering to gods lifespan. God, is very old, and is not limited to 120yrs as humans which is again pointed out by the tree of life. which luckily eve didnt eat, or we would have ran out of space long ago all being immortal

See, this is exactly what christians do!!
I will take a verse from somewhere in the bible that says what I need it to say to make my point! That verse in peter is talking about how being with God and in heaven, there is NO TIME scale really, a day can be a thousand years. It's not establishing that Gods days are 1000 years long each!!
Man that kinda stuff right there pisses me off to no end!!

This is why I cannot be a christian or believe in the bible. its a we'll make it say what we need to say for what we need today religion!

I don't care if a person chooses not to believe in a higher being, God etc. It's your personal choice and because of my experience in the past nothing you can say or do will sway my belief. If you want to ride that non-belief horse, go for it, no skin off my ass. I don't care

Yes, religion can be a terrible thing in the minds of the ignorant that try to force their beliefs on others (i.e. believe this or die etc.) I am a peaceful person and do not force my beliefs on others, I live my life as I choose, you live yours as you choose to...If you choose to harm me, my family or others I care for, I will fight you with every fiber of my being and with every means at my disposal. I don't care

If you ask, I might give some guidance to find peace... otherwise, I don't care.

Interpret...LOL...

Religious slang for fudging words and idea's to make it work..

Sorry, its a work of fiction, a fantastical story used to control...

reply to post by semperfortis

I am convinced that both creation (by God as a superintelligent first/last cause) and evolution are true. Don't have time to prove it, but I do believe it's possible to prove using the unique earth-moon-sun configuration.