Do you agree with bike LAWS?

Here in Michigan a bicyclist is considered a pedestrian, as are people on horseback or in a horse drawn buggy. The law here says that a pedestrian has the right of way in all circumstances. But it also says that bicyclists must obey all the same rules as motor vehicles where they apply.

As a bicyclist, I believe that the laws are for the courts after you get the "Easy Rider" treatment while cycling in full compliance with the laws. I've been using a bicycle as my primary transportation for about 4 years now and have gotten bad treatment on the road before and in one instance I flipped the bike because of it.

In any event I agree that a (growing) population of cyclists are using bicycles as a primary form of transportation.

Also, I'm sure most people, in cars or on bicycles, know the damage that could result from carelessness. It would be much like hitting a deer.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by franklin555

 

Riding a bike against traffic is not the best idea in the world. If one figured even a slow bike pace is ten to fifteen MPH - a head on collision with a car going anywhere from 25-55 would be exponentially more dangerous than if that same care clipped the biker from behind. One way adds to the impact inertia - the other way detracts from it.

Solid logic, but not the actual reason for the law. The law requires bikes to ride with traffic because of vehicles attempting to enter or cross the flow at minor side streets and driveways. If you're a driver who is turning right onto a roadway, you're going to primarily look to your left at oncoming traffic for an opening. Now, if you're a bike and you're riding against traffic, that guy will never see you because he's not expecting to have any issues with traffic coming from his right side.

As to the OP, I agree with *some* bike laws. I agree with the flow of traffic and must obey traffic signal laws because they are protecting the drivers on the road as well as the cyclists (a bike can jack up a car pretty good and body work isn't cheap). I couldn't care less about helmet laws, though. If someone wants to crack their dome, that's their business... not the legal systems'. Bike taxes I support IF your primary means of transportation is a bike. Face it, if you don't own a car and don't buy gasoline, you're riding your bike on a system built for you with other folks' money... that value may be in line with America's tax system of the middle class paying for the lower class, but in line doesn't mean fair. Everyone who uses the system should have to pay for it equally.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

As to the OP, I agree with *some* bike laws. I agree with the flow of traffic and must obey traffic signal laws because they are protecting the drivers on the road as well as the cyclists (a bike can jack up a car pretty good and body work isn't cheap).

No mention of the fact that the "body work" needed for the cyclist after getting jacked up isn't cheap either, provided they even survive the encounter.

I couldn't care less about helmet laws, though. If someone wants to crack their dome, that's their business... not the legal systems'. Bike taxes I support IF your primary means of transportation is a bike. Face it, if you don't own a car and don't buy gasoline, you're riding your bike on a system built for you with other folks' money... that value may be in line with America's tax system of the middle class paying for the lower class, but in line doesn't mean fair. Everyone who uses the system should have to pay for it equally.

The road tax issue is a big deal around here because of the Amish population and their use of horse drawn buggies. They are required to have rubber over the iron ring of the buggy wheels to prevent road damage, however, I see the damage all the time, not to mention the piles of road apples. They have to follow the rules too, but every few years there is another car/buggy accident that takes an Amish family's life.

Originally posted by MichiganSwampBuck

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

As to the OP, I agree with *some* bike laws. I agree with the flow of traffic and must obey traffic signal laws because they are protecting the drivers on the road as well as the cyclists (a bike can jack up a car pretty good and body work isn't cheap).

No mention of the fact that the "body work" needed for the cyclist after getting jacked up isn't cheap either, provided they even survive the encounter.

I couldn't care less about helmet laws, though. If someone wants to crack their dome, that's their business... not the legal systems'. Bike taxes I support IF your primary means of transportation is a bike. Face it, if you don't own a car and don't buy gasoline, you're riding your bike on a system built for you with other folks' money... that value may be in line with America's tax system of the middle class paying for the lower class, but in line doesn't mean fair. Everyone who uses the system should have to pay for it equally.

The road tax issue is a big deal around here because of the Amish population and their use of horse drawn buggies. They are required to have rubber over the iron ring of the buggy wheels to prevent road damage, however, I see the damage all the time, not to mention the piles of road apples. They have to follow the rules too, but every few years there is another car/buggy accident that takes an Amish family's life.

Do you know of any car drivers killed? Hitting a horse of course of course is not a very good thing..I would rather take my chances in the car then the buggy either way...

reply to post by MichiganSwampBuck


Just for clarification's sake, I ride a mountain bike to and from work most of the summer (about 12 miles round trip). I do this for additional exercise, to enjoy the most beautiful summer on the planet, and because half of my trip is along a greenbelt trail next to a creek I like to fish in (I carry a flyrod in my backpack most days)... I am not anti-bike at all. I do, however, find a minor percentage of "elitist entitlement" cyclists out there who will go out of their way to ride in a car lane, slowing traffic and creating a road hazard, even though the roadway may have a fully developed bike path running alongside it. These individuals are complete asses who create a negative opublic opinion of cyclists in general.

Reply to post by franklin555

These bike law makers should look at China and learn a lesson or two from them.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by franklin555
It seems that most major cities have created traffic laws that apply to bicycles. ..... Laws requiring ...... at least one working brake.

OMG!!!!! How evil is that!


I do think (here in the UK) that all kids should be taught the cycling proficency test (I got 100% in mine when I was 10 btw and I noticed kids from a local school being taught this morning on a side street near me ) and it really really annoys me when I see adults on bicycles riding on the pavement, endangering everyone else. I'd been riding a bike on main roads for most of my life until about 10 years ago when lassitude led to me stopping (yes, I should get a bike again - it's good exercise!)

Originally posted by franklin555
It seems that most major cities have created traffic laws that apply to bicycles. ..... Laws requiring ...... at least one working brake.

OMG!!!!! How evil is that!


I do think (here in the UK) that all kids should be taught the cycling proficency test (I got 100% in mine when I was 10 btw and I noticed kids from a local school being taught this morning on a side street near me ) and it really really annoys me when I see adults on bicycles riding on the pavement, endangering everyone else. I'd been riding a bike on main roads for most of my life until about 10 years ago when lassitude led to me stopping (yes, I should get a bike again - it's good exercise!)

Originally posted by randomtangentsrme
I have seen more bicyclists have poor traffic habits than automobile drivers. I have driven behind a troupe (about 40 strong blocking both lanes) of bicyclists progressing on a busy one way street at less than 5 miles an hour.

I know in my city bicycles, by law, have full use of the traffic lanes.



Maybe you should check out the laws for cyclists also? Maybe it's you who needs to learn to share the road?

I almost hit a lady on her bike when she completely blew through a stop sign while making a left. She saw I had already stopped, and was making a right turn and she still just went for it. I just kept going and made her brake really hard and skid out. She gave me the dirtiest look and I gave her bird while yelling as loud as I could " Stop Sign, Beeyotch"

reply to post by sbc650mike


But you're in a CAR!

Give bikes a break eh? So what if they don't sometimes follow the rules, as long as you can stop then you should. I bet you don't always follow the rules yourself, do you? Don't lie, because I am a pedestrian and 99% of the drivers do not yields at intersections to peds or cyclists.

If you can't stop then it's their fault, right? What are you worried about, a dent, a scratch?

The cyclist has to worry about a lot more than that.

It's car drivers who seem to think they are entitled to use the road, and everyone else is just in their way.

I've been commuting by bike to work for almost 20 years. I've always known that bikes have to follow the rules of the road, just like a car.

I also ride for recreation. It's a great way to get exercise as well as a great way to commute as long as you live within biking distance from work.

I try to obey the laws. I live in the country where there are no streetlights so I have to use a good light when it's dark.

The thing is..... once enough people starts to ride their bikes to work, they (the government) will begin to extort them for money in the usual ways. And if I understand USA correctly, they want everybody numbered so they can do surveilance on them. They want to monitor and extort for the highest possible amount of money.

reply to post by sbc650mike


How would you feel if you actually hit her and killed her?

I try to cut bikes a break, even if the bike rider is acting badly.

I rarely ride on the roads, why use the road when theres a whole sidewalk with noone on it, but then again I dont live in a city with lots of pedestrian traffic. I also probably violate every single law you mentioned, yes even the "having at least one working brake", lol

Originally posted by Libertygal
...and zig zag through traffic like they are invulnerable.
...

We are invulnerable mwhahaha.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by randomtangentsrme
I have seen more bicyclists have poor traffic habits than automobile drivers. I have driven behind a troupe (about 40 strong blocking both lanes) of bicyclists progressing on a busy one way street at less than 5 miles an hour.

I know in my city bicycles, by law, have full use of the traffic lanes.



Maybe you should check out the laws for cyclists also? Maybe it's you who needs to learn to share the road?

Here, there are laws against impeding traffic. Honestly, I found the situation I mentioned hilarious, as a vast majority of drivers around me were getting quite upset, while others were asking if this was a protest etc.
There is a bike lane on that street.
I could have mentioned cycling against traffic, not stopping for traffic lights or stop signs, riding at night without lights (not to mention reflectors), or riding in the middle of the road (or zigzagging between two way traffic lanes).

www.calbike.org...

But thank you for assuming I don't know the laws.

reply to post by randomtangentsrme


But cyclists ARE traffic.

I didn't say the laws are the same where you live, but you don't know for sure do you?

Most drivers where I live don't know that cyclists are allowed full use of the lane, even with signs posted. I used to be a bike messenger, so I have a lot of experience with cars not following the same laws they try to throw in our faces all the time. Car drivers just always assume they are in the right, entitled.

reply to post by ANOK


well to be fair roads (at least our modern ones) were created for mass transit of cars not bicycles and as people who pay taxes and fees on their cars and gas and what not are paying for that infrastructure so yeah cars do kind of own the road(motor vehicles would be a better term)

so i guess until their is bicycle registration and fees associated car will continue their dominance of the roads

its also of note that laws vary greatly from state to state on how they treat bicycles so what is legal/illegal in one area will not be the same in another

bikeportland.org... seems portland and possibly washington are planing on doing just that

Every Saturday, Spring, Summer and Fall the road near my house is full of people on bicycles. I have developed an intense hatred for them. They take up the whole road and do 5mph and won't get over to allow you to pass. They always look the same. Middle aged men and women wearing spandex and little girly helmets and sunglasses.

The only safe place to ride a bicycle is on private property or a park. Period. Riding a bicycle in traffic is stupid and certain to get you killed. It should be illegal to do what they do here in my neck of the woods. They ruin every Saturday drive and feel good about it. The whole town hates them and wishes they'd ride elsewhere. I guess it is one of the drawbacks to living in the country.

My take on the laws is GOOD! We need more! Like no groups in anything but single file. Groups must pay a police officer to escort them down the road and allow others to pass them. But it would be better to ban them from the roads out in the country. The closest thing around here is 10 miles away. No one and I mean no one in this town rides a bike for anything but exercise.

Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by randomtangentsrme

 

But cyclists ARE traffic.

I didn't say the laws are the same where you live, but you don't know for sure do you?

Most drivers where I live don't know that cyclists are allowed full use of the lane, even with signs posted. I used to be a bike messenger, so I have a lot of experience with cars not following the same laws they try to throw in our faces all the time. Car drivers just always assume they are in the right, entitled.

Roadway: Bicyclists can ride wherever they want if they’re traveling at the speed of traffic. If traveling slower than the speed of traffic, they can still position themselves wherever in the lane is necessary for safety. The law says that cyclists must ride as close to the right side of the road as safely possible except under the following conditions: when passing, preparing for a left turn, avoiding hazards, if the lane is too narrow to share, or if approaching a place where a right turn is authorized. CVC 21202
Bicycle lanes: On a roadway with a bike lane, bicyclists traveling slower than traffic must use the bike lane except when making a left turn, passing, avoiding hazardous conditions, or approaching a place where a right turn is authorized. CVC 21208

This is straight from the link I provided in my last post.

Just as my mother got a ticket going 55 on the 3 lane freeway (in the slow lane) for impeding traffic (in her motor vehicle), these bicyclists were impeding traffic, going 25-30 miles an hour under the posted speed limit.

As the link I provided are state laws, yes I do know for sure. But keep trying. As an entitled car driver, I am having a blast watching you destroy your own argument.