Parents Sue School For Making Children ‘Religious Guinea Pigs’ — By Teaching Them Yoga

reply to post by CaptainOblivious


This is an excellent point you make. The Secular Humanists started this all by demanding to remove all traces of religion(read:Christianity) from the public schools ostensibly to maintain separation of Church and State, and now they come with a UN program of teaching yoga in the schools(and one can almost bet this is not a spontaneous addition of yoga to the school curriculum by some wise soul) pretending it has no spiritual aspects or implications. They think they can fool people and obviously some are fooled by it.
I love yoga, but it is the motive here I question. I have already posted that yoga is being taught at the level of the UN and shown pics of UN soldiers standing around. I'm sure individual teachers may have good motives, but likely this is coming from the UN and the World Council of Churches and specifically to promote New Age With the kind of control the NEA has public schools with it's communist roots, one can expect all programs to have a deliberate reason that suit their agenda of control,

reply to post by sylvie


Even if it is an optional class, the secular humanists declared that there has to be separation of church and state. They did this to remove all traces of Christianity from the schools. They did this although even to them, humanism is a kind of religious belief which does not include the Supreme Creator God, but only themselves as gods. They sought to replace the absolute values with moral relativity. And thus attempts to impose other religious beliefs outside of Christianity are acceptable to them apparently.
I love yoga and think it is a great addition to curriculum, but I do see through the agenda and the motive.

reply to post by LanceCorvette

I'm an actual real-life yoga teacher, and I've taught yoga to small school kids in Chicago. I can attest that there is nothing religious about your basic yoga practice.

I think as a yoga teacher you should know better. Yes you can teach yoga postures without going into obvious religious preaching. Clearly yoga postures don't teach the Vedic scriptures, but you know full well the spiritual nature of yoga regardless.
To say what you are saying means to undermine even your own reason for doing yoga, unless you are not authentic and believe only in the physical exercise of it.
Incidentally, the Examiner had an article showing that the class did indeed include yoga mats with the tai chi symbol on them, which is not even from the Hindu system, but nevertheless they thought to insert Chinese philosophical symbolism thinking no one would be the wiser.
I personally am fine with implementations of yoga, but again it is the motive I find disingenuous. Again, the seculars are not concerned with anything but eliminating Christianity, as they are perfectly happy with yoga, meditation, or any pagan religious curriculum.

Yoga has nothing to do with twisting your body into a pretzel, and pretending to be spiritual. It is not about a teaching, a philosophy, or a religion.

Yoga means Unity. Unity within yourself, and there is NOTHING wrong with that.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


No one is going to attack Yoga because it has its roots in a religion.

If Christianity comes with Mind over Matter technique they practice, hey i will like to learn that, without its religious aspect. Similar to how Yoga is being taught.

In fact, there are some people that teach yoga in church O.o. i saw a documentary. They call it "christian yoga" or something like that.... now i think thats is stupid.... jus call it Yoga, without any attachments to religion.

Unless this foreign word "Yoga" means religious to ignorant mind, then so be it, they will be eventually ostracized and die out.

I like Tai Chi, even practiced at a friend house, that doesn't mean i will turn into a Chinese guy the next day.

If Yoga teaches Hinduism, then heck yeah, remove it from school. You are jealous! because christianity is being removed but a technique from an eastern religion(tho not religious) is being taught.

Its like not serving Felafel in school because its middle eastern!

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


To be quite honest, Christians (then) did it to themselves. Actually it's fanaticism and dogma that are the core of the problem but since we're talking about the US, it was Christians of the day and their authoritative stranglehold on every aspect of society and their often violent rejection of different religions and cultures that forced others to insist on an extremely thorough separation of Church and State.

A smaller percentage of Christians today still do the same, which isn't to say it is exclusive to Christians alone but they are still the majority religion and thus much more visible and this is a perfect example, the NCLP seems to take major issue with an exercise removed entirely from it's culture and spiritual history, yet endorses and actively seeks to pass legislation that forces public schools to teach Creationism.

The mentality of there is only one religion and one culture in America is what is under fire not Christianity, our only culture is liberty or that's how it's supposed to be and Liberty is not to be interpreted to mean free to be 'me' it's meant to be interpreted as free to be, period. There is nothing wrong with Christianity or having it as your belief system, but there is a problem with some Christians who try to force it upon others.

reply to post by Kali74

It's a form of physical education.

HOWEVER, back when I was a christian I viewed Yoga as a secular pseudo-religion. It was something I associated with sinners and wickedness. I'm not even lying. Is that sad?

I think the reason it's viewed so harshly by hardcore christians (and maybe others) is because of the whole meditation element. The whole mind over matter thing. Man can be like god.

Paganism and witches and halloween and similar things gave me the same vibe. On the surface, they look fun and harmless. But dig deeper and you find dirt. You find a secular humanist agenda.

But I'm not christian anymore, so it doesn't matter. I'm trying to be honest about how I felt.

EDIT: And btw I did not read any posts in this thread before making this post. I just now read some of the posts and see that someone else mentioned the secular humanist agenda.

(in case anybody is wondering I'm liberal and agnostic... NOT religious in any shape or form.)

reply to post by orangutang


The issue here is not whether yoga is beneficial or not. Yoga is beneficial in many ways. Ordinarily I am always for promoting the practice. The issue here for me is that after the seculars have worked so hard to remove all traces of Christianity from public schools, then turn around and promote yoga as a non-spiritual practice, I find it disingenuous. If they want to promote yoga, they should stop trying to remove Christianity as well. That is the issue I have here, and that it is likely coming from some UN program, and I am against anything with the UN name on it, regardless of what beautiful spiritual people may have unwittingly lent themselves to it.

reply to post by Kali74

To be quite honest, Christians (then) did it to themselves. Actually it's fanaticism and dogma that are the core of the problem but since we're talking about the US

I understand what you are saying about fundamentalist Christianity. However, I know what the secular humanist philosophy is, and what they are trying to do with it. I know that the UN is promoting concepts in order to achieve a One World Govt. You should really include the fanatical attempts by secular humanists to eliminate Christianity, but include pagan ideas as part of the problem, because it was humanists who did this first. The purpose was to promote secular humanism, and they just found that anything which opposed Christian ideals would do for them. To simply promote yoga as a secular practice is at best disingenuous and a lie as well. If they want to allow Christian prayers on campus, then let's go for it all. But you see, the goal is to remove Christianity, not promote well being through yoga.

Secular humanism has become the dominant force now in society and in the schools. It is part of the John Dewey method of removing parental authority and replacing it with the State. Dewey was a humanist and signed the Humanist Manifesto.

Although the U.S. Constitution forbids the creation of a national establishment of religion, the closest we have come to the creation of such an establishment is that of Secular Humanism, the worldview philosophy that now governs the curriculum of our tax-funded public schools. Some humanists claim that secular humanism is a religion; other humanists claim that it isn’t.

However, In March 1987, U.S. District Judge W. Brevard Hand ruled that Secular Humanism was a religion. Indeed, Phyllis Schlafly, a graduate of Harvard Law School, wrote in 1980, “Secular Humanism has become the established religion in the U.S. public school system.” The landmark 172-page ruling in this case of Smith v. Board of School Commissioners of Mobile County, Ala., affirmed what Christians had been saying for years: that the government school curriculum is based on and teaches the tenets of Secular Humanism and that this, therefore, constitutes an establishment of religion sponsored and sanctioned by the state, which is expressly forbidden by the Constitution of the United States.

The case really boiled down to determining what is a religion. The plaintiffs contended that Secular Humanism is a religion; the defendants argued that it is not. Since the U.S. Supreme Court had not stated an absolute definition of religion under the First Amendment, Judge Hand wrote that “any definition of religion must not be limited, therefore, to traditional religions, but must encompass systems of belief that are equivalent to them for the believer.”

www.thenewamerican.com...

So here again, we have a problem with what we are defining as a religious or spiritual practice. And the motive behind much of this stems from secular humanism and what agendas they want to fulfil, as they now have defined yoga as a non-spiritual practice, and yet every yoga teacher knows that ultimately yoga is a spiritual practice with spiritual goals.
I refuse to sacrifice the principle here.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


You know, you're pretty smart and obviously posses a good amount of knowledge on various things, I just don't get how it gets all twisted up with you. You see agendas lurking under every rock when reality is that people just like stuff sometimes... lol

and I don't for one minute buy what you're selling.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

You know, you're pretty smart and obviously posses a good amount of knowledge on various things, I just don't get how it gets all twisted up with you. You see agendas lurking under every rock when reality is that people just like stuff sometimes... lol

and I don't for one minute buy what you're selling.

edit on 25-2-2013 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)

This is not twisted up here at all. Public schools are controlled by the NEA and the Dept of Education and I guarantee that with what the program of secular humanism is, that they cannot approve something unless it fits their agenda.
Secular humanism was always at odds with traditional Christianity.
So this is what they do, they purport to define everything the way they want to, regardless of the truth, and in doing so they can control the dialogue and the agenda.

The most significant result of Judge Hand’s decision is that it finally provided Christians with a clearly worded definition of Secular Humanism as a religion. Previous to this, humanists played dumb, claiming that trying to define humanism was like trying to nail Jell-O to a wall. Judge Hand had based his definition on a meticulous reading of Humanist Manifestos I (1933) and II (1973) as well as A Secular Humanist Declaration (1980). But that didn’t stop the humanists from issuing A Declaration of Interdependence: A New Global Ethics (1988) and Humanist Manifesto 2000, which sums up all of the doctrines of Secular Humanism, leaving no doubt that it is a non-theistic philosophy of life meant to replace “outmoded” theistic religion.

www.thenewamerican.com...

They can then use the same principle of defining everything the way they want, and so yoga becomes a non-spiritual discipline because they want to promote something New Age in the schools.
I personally embrace both New Age and the traditional, but very few people do this. Again, my point is what the humanists are doing.
I would like to mention also that at age 19 I was a member of the Theosophical Society, of which Alice Bailey was also a member. She was responsible for the whole Lucis Trust thing. While I am on board with the idea of World Good Will, I know also that the Club of Rome is behind the activities of the UN right now.
I know you do not see things the way I do. I am sorry you do not perceive how deception is used to promote the One World Govt.
In my view, Alice Bailey did cross the line in worship of Lucifer, and many well-meaning and sincere souls may have gotten caught up in the occultic agendas of the UN. No true sponsor of the great brotherhood of man would support the UN in it's current goals of depopulation and complete totalitarian rule, as it goes against the principles of true freedom.
If it were not so, then both Christianity and yoga would be acceptable curriculum in schools as optional.

I've been stretching the past week or two. I don't try to control my breathing or anything. I just hold poses and keep it there and do different kinds. When I'm done I do as many pushups in 2 minutes as I can. No spiritual elements came to mind. It's something I do solely for my body.

Sometimes my legs tingle when I stretch and I move around to clear it up. Steadily it gets more comfortable. I feel like I have to ease into it. I try to go on walks too.

Generally, it's not fun. It feels like work. However, keeping track of how many pushups I do is fun. It's like I'm competing with myself. It's also nice to feel more limber and hold poses easier.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by Kali74

 

It's a form of physical education.

HOWEVER, back when I was a christian I viewed Yoga as a secular pseudo-religion. It was something I associated with sinners and wickedness. I'm not even lying. Is that sad?

Whereas coming from a non-religious background, I never associated yoga with religion at all - any more than callenetics, for example.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I suppose it's not the least bit possible that Christianity waged a war on secularism or assigned it an agenda? So a group of people definitely not religious got labeled a religion, that isn't ridiculous to you?

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

I suppose it's not the least bit possible that Christianity waged a war on secularism or assigned it an agenda? So a group of people definitely not religious got labeled a religion, that isn't ridiculous to you?

Only after the seculars demanded the removal of Christianity from public schools. This was also behind the push to eliminate all references to God in the form of the Pledge of Allegiance. It was a socialist who wrote the original pledge and Progressives had no problem with tthat during the time when they embraced national socialism. It was a Christian person who added the "under god" phrase.

Information on the World Council of Churches and the UN

www.apfn.org...


Also, it appears you have ignored the entire context and specifics of the argument which brought it to trial in the Supreme Court.

Alice bailey and the Lucis Trust
freemasonrywatch.org...

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by orangutang

 

The issue here is not whether yoga is beneficial or not. Yoga is beneficial in many ways. Ordinarily I am always for promoting the practice. The issue here for me is that after the seculars have worked so hard to remove all traces of Christianity from public schools, then turn around and promote yoga as a non-spiritual practice, I find it disingenuous. If they want to promote yoga, they should stop trying to remove Christianity as well. That is the issue I have here, and that it is likely coming from some UN program, and I am against anything with the UN name on it, regardless of what beautiful spiritual people may have unwittingly lent themselves to it.

yes, the UN is now highly suspect. the elite control it to further there own agenda and what they implement or remove is to weaken society so the final takeover can be effective. so introducing yoga will further their agenda; when it is no longer useful or is seen to consciously evolve people, a reason will be found to remove it.

Originally posted by LeuanWhy are the days of the week named after planets who are named after god's?

Actually, the days of the week, with exception of Saturday, take their names from Norse/Germanic myth

Sunday= Sól, goddess of the sun
Monday= moon's day
Tuesday= Tyr, god of battle
Wednesday= Odin/Woden, all father god
Thursday= Thor, god of thunder amd lightning
Friday= Freyr/Freya, twin god and goddes of fertility.

reply to post by orangutang


I believe many well-meaning and sincere souls have been drawn into this agenda unwittingly to support this. There is always a fine line between black and white magic, and the line in the UN can be very tricky to navigate. we know that the UN was originally the League of Nations set up by the Rothschilds. I have no doubt that Alice Bailey and the Theosophists were truly about establishing "World Good Will", and they may have thought the UN was a good vehicle for it, but the Club of Rome and the religion of Gaia are behind the recent push in UN agendas world wide and in the promotion of Agenda 21 which has absolutely zero to do with world good will and only has depopulation and control of resources behind it.

Originally posted by orangutang

Originally posted by YouSir
reply to post by Kali74

 

Ummm...You really need to get out more.....Yoga...IS...a spiritual practice...NOT...a stretching exercise. Yoga can bring about psychological and physical reactions that unless a master is present and the student guided throughout the process, can be very detrimental to the uninitiated. There are very powerful energies at play here, not to mention gaining access to and interference with the autonomic nervous system....(heart rate, breathing, endocrine production etc). You can unintentionally access and unsynchronize these delicate systems.

Here are some...VERY... good books on this And I would be very wary of practicing anything in them without a Yogi...This is extremely serious stuff......

1. Light on Yoga.....B.K.S. Iyengar
2. The Complete Illustrated Book of Yoga.....Swami Vishnudevananda
3. Kripalu Yoga (Meditation in motion) Books 1 and 2.....Yogi Amrit Desai
And the very serious
4. The Serpent Power...Sir John Woodroffe.

Yoga is not a thing to be taken lightly, westernized versions of this tradition have relegated it to mere stretching exercises when it is anything but that.

I cant stress enough how powerful these form meditations are...I would certainly not choose to casually allow children to participate in something as profound as yoga....

Before you comment back to me about this.....please research and educate yourself...

With great reward comes great risk...

YouSir

i think you're ignoring the fact that hatha yoga as practiced in the west is mostly far removed from the yoga as it really is. it IS beneficial to the mind and body as any stretching would be. it does effect the endocrine system but in a positive way. for the vast millions it is not dangerous. an odd exception would exist but that same person could have their kundalini aroused from a car accident or fall and is extremely rare.

yes, there are practices published such as "light on yoga" and "the serpent power" but the breathing practices in them require dedicated practice for many months before danger might occur. toxic blood release is one of them; hence the need for a guru.
however the tiny exposure to pranayama/breathing technique in majority of western classes would be harmless.

Simply not true, I know of one case (self) where these practices initiated in kundalini and meditation in motion simply by reading them and practicing them ...THE FIRST TIME...

only an ignorant person would ban mild yoga classes from a prison or school curriculum. as the french found out years ago exercise before study improved the students marks/abilities. and in prison it could only calm the inmates.
but ignorance is bliss with many christian fundamentalists.

Ummm.....essentially what your claiming is that yoga was dumbed down for western consumption. Just as Rinzai Zen So that the Americanized "sense of self" not be subject to the striking of a bamboo rod. So, Rinzai, was replaced with the Soto lineage so that the inbred American culture, or Dr. Spockification, not be conflicted by a practice in which physical contact is used as an aid to enlightenment.

I certainly have no argument with your interpretation as it pertains to a certain percentage, but the rest of the populations which are ripe for Kundalini-like experiances, etc., should have guidance through these experiances. If you have truly experianced such an aspect of practice then you would not so nonchalantly espouse such deep meditative practices for children. These are very psychosexual practices that are at the root of enlightenment pursuits. These pursuits also, can be extremely detrimental to the unprepared Psyche and practicioner in the form of very physical maladjustments to the balance of complex biological systems. In essence, one can access and control the entire biological process of organs and unwittingly unbalance their function.

Your simply wrong in your assessment that postures need to be held for hours and hours in order to awaken Shakti and for her to unite with Shiva. There simply is no set timeframe for the individual experiance of these states...none...These are individual specific and can occur in...the first practice...or never...in essence what you have in these posts are some individuals who have not experianced, espousing that because they have not...yet...that by all means, so treat the children.

I would say to you that it is perhaps unwise to potentially awaken powerful psychosexual connections and experiances in the very young or even more mature persons that are still unprepared for the experiance.....You make the mistake of equating what might be a personal experiance for you with the intensity and depth of experiance that another might attain at any point in their practice.

YouSir

This conflict has the potential to be reconciled.

Everyone just needs to sit back for one minute, take a big deep breathe in, and a nice calming exhalation out. A few times if necessary.

Next, please try to release your biases, and culturally bound belief sets, loosen them in your mind if you will, then take in these words:

It is quite possible for yoga to serve multiple purposes that exist entirely separate from one another in separate contexts/environments.

1. Yoga can serve as a powerful spiritual practice for some.
2. Yoga can serve as a good part of ones exercise routine
3. Yoga could serve as both an exercise routine and powerful spiritual practice.

it is dependent up on what one is taught. If in the the school system, they excluded the spiritual teaching from the physical practice of yoga (because, if one is not consciously aware of the spiritual implications, it is unlikely that it will consciously effect their belief system and thus the practice will simply result in, calmer mood states due to deeper and proper breathing with added flexibility and grace) then I do not see the problem here (there is no conflict between religion, or any religious oppression or dogmatic indoctrination occurring). This is entirely possible and rational, simply because yoga originates from Hindi practices does not mean it cannot be used in a variety of ways.

The resulting case is just one due to lack of knowledge, they will learn that things are not as rigid as they have been led to believe. As we all will one of these days.