Why are atheistic liberals who want to be PC so hypocritical?

reply to post by Cuervo

Thanks for your reply....

This is not a Christian-belief-defending thread.... It's also not a liberal-bashing thread. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of how liberals (most of them being atheistic)... while feeling all liberated, have a strict code of values to follow... It's termed political correctness. It has extended to the point where it's now "political correctness gone mad" and how it's so contradictory to what people would consider liberating at first blush....

the average American Christian is anti-choice and pro-war. Why?

To tell you the truth... I don't know... I suspect because most Christians don't have the faith to believe that God can defend a country without going to war... therefore it's necessary.

But that's a good question. And I suspect that you would get some interesting responses if you started a thread for that.

Originally posted by MarkJS
reply to post by Cuervo

 

Thanks for your reply....

This is not a Christian-defending thread.... It's also not a liberal-bashing thread. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of how liberals (most of them being atheistic)... while feeling all liberated, have a strict code of values to follow... It's termed political correctness. It has extended to the point where it's now "political correctness gone mad" and how it's so contradictory to what people would consider liberating at first blush....

the average American Christian is anti-choice and pro-war. Why?

To tell you the truth... I don't know... I suspect because most Christians don't have the faith to believe that God can defend a country without going to war... therefore it's necessary.

But that's a good question. And I suspect that you would get some interesting responses if you started a thread for that.

Thank you for being honest and candid with that answer. In turn, I feel you also deserve and answer to your question which, paraphrased, is "Why do atheists denounce Christianity because of strict rules only to make up their own strict rules?"

I am not an atheist but think I understand where they are coming from. Religious rules are religious therefore it is founded on a concept they do not believe. It may or may not be the rules themselves they do not like but that is irrelevant. What matters is that they are rules dictated by a belief system they feel is false. The rules that replace them are based on human ethics and logic. Are they better? You can be the judge of that. But my point is that it does not matter if the replacement rules are better or worse. It only matters that they are secular and not given to them by a church. I can appreciate that.

reply to post by MarkJS

Originally posted by MarkJS
Wow... you're more courageous than most.

It's not courageous. It's my choice. It would actually be the easiest option for me to live with. So, courage is not involved. Did you read or just ignore the rest of my post? It doesn't matter. I've made my points here.

The following discussion between me and my liberal sister actually took place last week. It clearly illustrates the way liberals think.


In response to this facebook image about a Christian t-shirt:



Me: Obnoxious

My sister: If we let religion make the rules for everyone no matter their faith how is it different? People keep making rules they think only apply to Christianity and are appalled when other religions try to make use of the benefits.

Me: I am aware of the problems inherent in having a diverse and multicultural republic. Treating faith like a dark and ugly thing and insisting it have no role in a voter's choices is not reasonable. Your post is bigoted and outrageously offensive. Additionally, there is no comparison between Sharia and the American Christian who votes his conscience. None.

Me: Furthermore, even if it were true that American Christians were trying to take over America and create a Christian government and a Bible based court system (which is so far from the truth it's laughable) the outcome would look nothing like Sharia. Nothing. This is another reason why thus offends me. Fundamental Islam and devout Christianity are NOT comparable.

My sister:Not in their choices but definitely in the legislation. When you are an elected official you represent your entire constituency. It is very improper to make the bible the law of the land or any other book of faith.
My sister: Why not, the old testament is the source of both religion's fundamentalist ideals.

Me: Your post shows a marked lack of understanding of Christian theology. But then you are not a Christian, so I guess that's to be expected.

My sister: Extremism looks the same either way. Most Muslims are not fundamentalists and most Christians are not fundamentalists.

Me: Then why lump average Christians in with Sharia law? That's what your post does. It would be like me comparing you to Mao Tse Tung or Kruschev.

Me: Wanting to vote in accordance with your faith is not extremism. Wanting everyone to be an atheist, treating people of faith as a menace to society, and insisting they pretend to have no God at the ballot box - IS extremism.

My sister: If I say I don't want a religious government I really don't think that is extreme. I don't want Thomas Jefferson written out of the history books by Christians that don't like the separation of church and state. And I never want to live under religious rule of any sect.

Me: It's a straw man argument. Sets up a false premise at the outset. The fact remains that there is no comparison between the t-shirt slogan and Sharia.

Me: At times you post things which are extremist but you somehow think your ideas are centrist, probably because you live in an envelope of liberalism in a somewhat more conservative greater society. But you don't seem to realize, I would never ask ANYONE to suspend their faith at the ballot box. Ever. Many American Christians, the kind who would wear this tee shirt, have died for your secular humanist right to insult them in this way.

Me: This post is bigoted and offensive. Take it from someone who it offended. You can spend all day telling the offended person why they should not be offended or try to explain that you aren't a bigot because you really, really think you are right.

Me: If I posted outrageous statements about gays taking over the government because they get out the vote, wouldn't you think I was a bigot? "I don't want to live under a gay government!" What a ridiculous thing it would be to say. IT'S THE SAME THING.

My sister: Why do you think I think my views are centrist? I may be as stupid as you think I am but I know that my politics are quite far left.

Me: I guess I thought that because you are always posting against extremism as if you did not know that you yourself are an extremist. It seemed hypocritical. Now I realize it is because you know your views are extreme but you really believe (like all extremists) that your extremism is a better kind of extremism.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

You will notice that for the most part my sister never directly addressed any of the issues I brought up. She skirted them by injecting straw-man arguments into the discussion. It is the liberals' favorite method of evasion of discourse. The only way to talk to a liberal is one on one and with reasoned discussion, but even then it usually doesn't work.

My sister eventually conceded that she was an extremist and that she thought her kind of extremism was best. But she never conceded that her post was offensive, nor did she apologize for being a bigot -- and she still considers herself a tolerant and open-minded person. It's a peculiar disconnect in the atheist liberal psyche which allows them to insult, offend (and ultimately outlaw) faith while claiming to be tolerant.

[edit] I guess on further reflection my post is a bit off-topic. It still does demonstrate a logical disconnect. [/edit]

Originally posted by MarkJS

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by MarkJS

 

Thanks for the insanely discombobulated thread. What is the point again? Billy Crystal and Bette Midler to gangs?
CJ

Thank you for your interest. This is the quick summary:

The point of this OP is: while liberals are all thinking they are being liberated, a LOT of them adhere to a strict code of political correctness….. They just traded one norm of acceptable conduct for a different, man-made one. And there is no end in sight as to how far it will go. The term “political correctness gone mad” springs to mind.

Aren't all "codes of conduct" man made?

CJ

reply to post by OuttaHere

she never conceded that her post was offensive, nor did she apologize for being a bigot -- and she still considers herself a tolerant and open-minded person. It's a peculiar disconnect in the atheist liberal psyche which allows them to insult, offend (and ultimately outlaw) faith while claiming to be tolerant.

That about sums it up.

And like you pointed out... many died to let Liberals speak their mind. When they speak their mind, there is this PC in the media that they would like to enforce all the while - while they are claiming tolerance.... an intolerance to free speech. Liberals should stop saying that they're so tolerant and be honest already. It's good that your sister did.

Liberalism - it's like the slogan "Freedom through tyranny".

Originally posted by MarkJS


Liberal, as in pro-abortion? OK... If you say they are believers... then go with that. I would have to disagree.

No, Liberal as in Liberal. Being Liberal means more than just being "pro-abortion," although all of the Liberals I know or know of would not say they are pro-abortion. They are pro-choice. There's a big difference.

I wouldn't classify myself as a Liberal. I don't have a classification, but some of my views would fit as "Progressive" or "Liberal." I'm a very devout believer. I believe in what the Bible says. I'm not "pro-abortion." I am very much against abortion. But I also believe a woman has a right to choose whether I agree with it or not. I do my best to educate on alternatives to abortion, but that doesn't mean a woman can't make that choice herself.

My political views and religious beliefs are my own and I refuse to force them on anyone. That's why the Most High gave us free will. We should spread the Gospel in a loving manner but that also doesn't mean we should force our views on others. That goes against the free will which our Father gave us. People have to make their choices and then live with the results/consequences, both in this life and the next, of those choices.

For you to pigeonhole being Liberal to just "pro-abortion" is ridiculous. I agree with the others that you are doing nothing but stereotyping and it seems you have a lot of hate in your heart. That's not the message of my Savior.

reply to post by Cuervo


Honesty is running rampant in this thread... Watch out.. can be dangerous

You said:

What matters is that they are rules dictated by a belief system they feel is false. The rules that replace them are based on human ethics and logic. Are they better? You can be the judge of that. But my point is that it does not matter if the replacement rules are better or worse. It only matters that they are secular and not given to them by a church.

It's a side-issue, and I don't know if you intended to... but you proved my point.... Liberals on the whole are Bible-value rejecting.... and not believers, as some in this thread would like to say (to confuse the point).

reply to post by MarkJS

...and with their own set of rules, their favorite term for them is called Political Correctness... which they adhere to... but also want to impose on everyone else as well. This is a form of intolerance.... Intolerance gone mad.

And they complain about Christians wanting to pass repressive laws...... OK then. chuckle.

Hmmm, Another Liberal hate post based on Fox news and Hollywood movies....

I like to tell my conservative co-workers:

"I must be a contradiction, I'm a Liberal with a job AND a work ethic!"

It's fun watching them hide from the boss, pissing and moaning about how bad they have it,
while I keep myself busy with stuff they refuse to do....

Sure makes MY day go by faster!

And management wishes they had a hundred of me...

Socially everybody is both liberal and conservative, you cannot be just one or the other.

People seem to confuse political liberalism, and conservatism, with social liberalism, and conservatism. Political liberalism is not left-wing, even though left wingers are obviously socially liberal.

Being PC has nothing to do with being liberal, but everything to do with you not understanding, or wanting, change.

I don't see atheists being any more ruthless in their stance than the religious right who want to force their social agenda on everyone. Who is it that is trying to dictate what a woman does with her body? Or even men for that matter.

There is nothing more hypocritical than a christian trying to force their social view on everyone else. Just look around and see what is dominant, religion, or anti-religion. The fact that you made this post proves you are not innocent when it comes to judging others views and actions.

Originally posted by OuttaHere
The following discussion between me and my liberal sister actually took place last week. It clearly illustrates the way liberals think.

LOL talk about stereotyping.

So everyone you label "liberal" all think the same huh?

You all need to wake up and realise you are limiting your own freedom of thought, and expression, by identifying with labels, and ideology, that has been set up to be the 'norm' by the state in order to control dissent from the established system of exploitation, and corruption.

You think you're free? You have gladly accepted the bars on the windows of your mind.

I'm an atheist liberal, my father is an atheist conservative, and neither of us give a damn about political correctness. We do, however, care about respecting others and what they feel and what they believe.

I've never once read anywhere that the definition of religion is following a person and not a set of rules. I have instead read many times that religion is a structured set of beliefs, practices and principles. In other words, rules and dogma. But you make clear that "true religion" is only Christianity. Seems to me that the other 70% of the world would disagree.

You seem to be stuck with a terrible misconception of what atheism is. You also seem to not understand that what people have been doing is taking a meaningless term "political correctness" and using it as a blanket description of things they don't like. Point out that there are other cultures in America and the world and try to teach people about them? PC! Insist that people stop using culturally, racially, sexually offensive and ignorant phrases and terms? PC! Not treating white Christians like a privileged class? PC!

You mention a movie and claim liberal hypocrisy by pointing out "no sugar" and "no ice cream". You also apparently have a misconception on what liberal means as well. For some family to not want ice cream in the house is liberal. It'd be their choice, likely due to health concerns, who knows? It doesn't matter. Casting off orthodoxy and tradition is what a liberal does. Are you proposing that everyone must have ice cream? Seems like a bizarre point you're trying to make. They're hypocrites because they have rules in their family? That isn't a conservative/liberal difference! That's in every family everywhere! Oh, but you're sitting there pointing and snickering "look at those idiots, they don't allow ice cream!" How old are you?

Then your rant about gangs isn't even coherent. People make bad choices. People want to belong. People get fooled. They think it could be an easy way to make money, or gain some form of power. There are hundreds of reasons people join gangs. Atheist liberals... hmm. All those gang members running around with cross tattoos and guns. Damn atheist liberals. Do you even know what you're talking about or have a cohesive point?

Items in your links: Businesses saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas? PC! Nevermind that not all of their customers are Christian. Holiday tree? PC! Nevermind that the evergreen has long, long, long been a symbol in dozens of cultures of hope for life in spring and surviving the winter months. Which also was often tied to winter solstice festivals. PC!

Are there instances of things going too far? Sure. But 90% of the things people scream PC over, frankly, is just because it's easier for them to not have to think about what they're saying and doing. Egads! Why bother expending the miniscule effort on introspection and awareness when we can continue being ignorant troglodytes?

This isn't an issue of rules and restrictions. It's an issue of being a lazy and ignorant member of society versus one who actively participates in it and respects others within that society.

The same could be said about fundamental Christians....
How can a group that claims to follow a book that is all about unconditional love, first and foremost, spew so much hate?

People in general are full of #.

Originally posted by Ghost375
The same could be said about fundamental Christians....
How can a group that claims to follow a book that is all about unconditional love, first and foremost, spew so much hate?

People in general are full of #.

No-one's hating here. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the Liberal left. Truth does hurt though.... Maybe that's why you interpreted it as hate.... Just a guess.

Originally posted by MarkJS


Any abortion is evil.

And the real topic of this joke of a thread comes to the surface.

Why do you feel the need to hide your true topic under the guise of atheists and liberals?

reply to post by OuttaHere




Some day people will get over their inabilty to realize that not everyone fits into a neat little box, that the majority out there are individuals, and, most importantly, that liberal, conservatives-theyre all the same in the end. Focusing on hating one group simply compounds the problem.

Originally posted by LuckyLucian

Thank you for your thought-out response.....

I'm an atheist liberal, my father is an atheist conservative, and neither of us give a damn about political correctness. We do, however, care about respecting others and what they feel and what they believe.

I've never once read anywhere that the definition of religion is following a person and not a set of rules. I have instead read many times that religion is a structured set of beliefs, practices and principles. In other words, rules and dogma. But you make clear that "true religion" is only Christianity. Seems to me that the other 70% of the world would disagree.

You're probably being generous. It's more like 90% of the world would probably disagree.... You see, just because a person says that they are Christian, that doesn't mean that they are. Hitler said he was a Christian... right. That's what I'm talking about.... It's not following rules... ex: "Be at church every Sunday or you'll go to hell". Real Christianity is much deeper and personal than that.

You seem to be stuck with a terrible misconception of what atheism is. You also seem to not understand that what people have been doing is taking a meaningless term "political correctness" and using it as a blanket description of things they don't like. Point out that there are other cultures in America and the world and try to teach people about them? PC! Insist that people stop using culturally, racially, sexually offensive and ignorant phrases and terms? PC! Not treating white Christians like a privileged class? PC!

You forgot a few.... in the Political Correctness gone mad realm: Not using the word 'slave' any more.... not using the word 'dinosaur' any more.... PC!!

You mention a movie and claim liberal hypocrisy by pointing out "no sugar" and "no ice cream". You also apparently have a misconception on what liberal means as well. For some family to not want ice cream in the house is liberal. It'd be their choice, likely due to health concerns, who knows? It doesn't matter. Casting off orthodoxy and tradition is what a liberal does. Are you proposing that everyone must have ice cream? Seems like a bizarre point you're trying to make. They're hypocrites because they have rules in their family? That isn't a conservative/liberal difference! That's in every family everywhere! Oh, but you're sitting there pointing and snickering "look at those idiots, they don't allow ice cream!" How old are you?

You probably need to see the movie to appreciate the point... If I may try... the point is that Liberalism, while it alludes to freedom i.e. liberal, liberty, etc... Is not really that. There are rules. In this sense, liberalism is overrated and hypocritical.

Then your rant about gangs isn't even coherent. People make bad choices. People want to belong. People get fooled. They think it could be an easy way to make money, or gain some form of power. There are hundreds of reasons people join gangs. Atheist liberals... hmm. All those gang members running around with cross tattoos and guns. Damn atheist liberals. Do you even know what you're talking about or have a cohesive point?

Gangs aren't what they are cracked up to be either. The sense of belonging that they give demands a heavy toll on the person's conscience... maybe even their life.. Sometimes gangs are affiliated with the mob, and things happen that the person who "ran away from home to get away from rules" never never anticipated.

Items in your links: Businesses saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas? PC! Nevermind that not all of their customers are Christian. Holiday tree? PC! Nevermind that the evergreen has long, long, long been a symbol in dozens of cultures of hope for life in spring and surviving the winter months. Which also was often tied to winter solstice festivals. PC!

Are there instances of things going too far? Sure. But 90% of the things people scream PC over, frankly, is just because it's easier for them to not have to think about what they're saying and doing. Egads! Why bother expending the miniscule effort on introspection and awareness when we can continue being ignorant troglodytes?

This isn't an issue of rules and restrictions. It's an issue of being a lazy and ignorant member of society versus one who actively participates in it and respects others within that society.

The problem isn't PC per se. The problem is that liberals want to use PC to beat non-conformists over the head with it. If liberals used PC, and didn't try to force it upon everyone else...that would be acceptable. But as it is now, they are doing the same thing that they accuse Christians of doing.... imposing their standards of conduct upon society, whether they like it or not.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by MarkJS


Any abortion is evil.

And the real topic of this joke of a thread comes to the surface.

Why do you feel the need to hide your true topic under the guise of atheists and liberals?

Thank you for your response. But you missed the point of the thread, I am starting to believe. The issue of abortion is just a side issue... which probably should be in a different thread. Please read the OP to get what the gist of the thread is. Abortion was not mentioned there once.

All that aside... it's interesting though... Why would you point out abortion as an issue? Is that a personal issue with you?

reply to post by MarkJS


Why would I point out the abortion issue? I didnt.

I read the OP. its a bunch of generalizing and boxing whole populations into one little box. Its pointless, and silly.