Words are *MAGIC!*

Originally posted by Aleister
And then, of course, my namesake Aleister Crowley stopped using the words "I", "me", etc. for a time after realizing that so much of the ego became present through use of those identifying words. He went as far as to cut himself whenever he said one of them (if anyone tries this, pinching oneself may be less drastic, although not as compelling). The gain from this exercise might become profound and obvious after awhile. "I"'ve never tried it, but writing this gives temptation.

I don't want to tangent too much here, but your post made me feel compelled to add my two cents here:

First of all, if you want to try this interesting technique, you might use the method Donald Michael Kraig suggests in his book "Modern Magick"-- that of replacing self-cutting with a sturdy rubber band around the wrist, which you can *SNAP* when you use the offending word.

Second of all, I'd caution against following Crowley too closely. With him being your "namesake" this may fall on deaf ears, but if have to try (if only for those other curious members reading). Crowley was, in certain ways, somewhat brilliant. His book of associations is an excellent reference (777 / sepher sephiroth) and the man lead a very interesting life. However, anyone who knows anything about the man also realizes that he was slightly insane, had too massive an ego (ironic, given how this topic came up) , and may have recklessly played with forces he should have left alone. And if one needs any "proof" of this, the "great magician" died in poverty, a drug addict. Which does not, to me, sound like the condition of someone who had mastery over his life, his will, or had conversation with his "holy guardian angel" or anything like that.

So I would take much of Crowleyanism and "Thelema" with a big grain of salt and a skeptical eye. i would use most of his techniques tentatively, if at all, and throw away anything that didn't seem right. IMO there is much better out there. And do understand that here I am speaking of crowley specifically, and that is not meant to reflect on the Golden Dawn or any other groups he was associated with....

Originally posted by jiggerj
This idea is fun to think about, but let's get serious for just a moment. When we say that words have power, what we really mean is that gullible minds are weak. If words had any power they would affect everyone and everything.
If someone is stupid enough to believe in witchcraft then they will get sick when told that a witch has cast a stomach ache spell over them.

If words had any power on their own then humans would make this life a true hell on earth.

edit on 2/24/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

Perhaps you and I are living in different worlds. I look around me, and much of the world seems like it's stuck in one kind of hell or another.

Different words have different power, depending on who they're used by, how, in what situation, etc.... The words in the newspaper article or broadcast that makes you fear... the words in the song that makes you feel... the words in the movie or book or article that make you think.... the loving words of a romantic partner... the bitter words of that same close person when angered and turned against you... the scorn of an enemy...

Words affect us in all kinds of ways. Sometimes it's accidental, or incidental... sometimes orchestrated carefully, purposely. Watch some Derren Brown if you want to see one side of the clever use of words. Study the work of Milton Erickson, if you want a slightly different view.

Whoever mentioned names-- kabbalists believe the the name of a thing is very important. Gematria is the study of how words relate to each other. (In hebrew, each letter also has a numerical value-- and as such each word is a number. it is thought that words which equal the same number are somehow the same, or closely related concepts) Many different cultures have thought that a person's name is tied to their personality, or fate.

Look at the use of incantations in "magick." Look at the use of "affirmations" in psychology and the new age. Even mainstream religions use words in a similar way-- though we don't often think of it like that....

Words absolutely have power.

Words absolutely have power.

reply to post by iwilliam


Your examples prove that words absolutely do NOT have power.

You wrote:

the loving words of a romantic partner.

Tell me, do YOU feel anything when MY lover bestows romantic words upon ME? Of course not, because words have no power.

If my lover hugged me tight and whispered, "I love you so much that I would die for you!" I would be affected by her emotions (not her words). However, if a guy said the very same thing to me, well, I would feel something totally different.

Originally posted by jiggerj
This idea is fun to think about, but let's get serious for just a moment. When we say that words have power, what we really mean is that gullible minds are weak.

It is meant in the same way as the power potential within guns is worth being recognized and respected... not treated frivolously.

A body isn't "weak" because it can't defend itself from a bullet... no more than a mind is "weak" because it can't defend itself from the parent culture (etc) and system of symbols.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConclusion

Originally posted by jiggerj
This idea is fun to think about, but let's get serious for just a moment. When we say that words have power, what we really mean is that gullible minds are weak.

It is meant in the same way as the power potential within guns is worth being recognized and respected... not treated frivolously.

A body isn't "weak" because it can't defend itself from a bullet... no more than a mind is "weak" because it can't defend itself from the parent culture (etc) and system of symbols.

edit on 24-2-2013 by ErgoTheConclusion because: /wave o/

This doesn't change the fact that it is not words with power, but rather, minds with lack of power to differentiate crap from truth.

Yes words are magic because you can't cast a spell without saying anything...

reply to post by my1percent


I totally relate. There is a billboard on the freeway that I absolutely
hate because I have to see it, I drive that freeway at least twice
a week.

It says in big words 'HAVE A MELTDOWN'

I won't say the company for copyright reasons-- but I hate this sign
ad this damn double-speak.

rebel 5

reply to post by rebelv


Dam , lol , i was reading your post ,at the same time my husband was picking up our 6 year old from school .
Five minutes later.
She walked in the door having a meltdown. If i don't laugh i'll go mad.

Also if words are magic then pen's are wands , just to add. 1%

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


Well, magic is used to deceive people a lot as are words. I guess you are right.

reply to post by jiggerj


Words do have power , think of some beautiful poetry ect. It can have the power to move.

To quote a line from a song by INXS " words are weapons sharper than knives " 1%

reply to post by rickymouse


Words aren't allways used to decieve though , but yes just look at inuendo (spelling)
1%

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


I missed your post , i caught up and read the links yes sometimes it's what is not said
that's important. cheers1%

Words are indeed magical and enchanting, they can help us communicate but we are often mislead by them. I can recommend this video by Alan Watts on the limits of language, he talks a good bit about this matter in a rather funny way, but very down-to-earth.

Originally posted by my1percent
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Words do have power , think of some beautiful poetry ect. It can have the power to move.

To quote a line from a song by INXS " words are weapons sharper than knives " 1%

It is not the words with the power. If words had power they would affect EVERYONE. If someone says, That poem speaks to me, it means that this person is already emotionally connected to the idea behind the words, whereas other people aren't connected and are not moved at all by a poem or poetry in general.

reply to post by jiggerj
You are right, it more about the symbolism that the word has for a certain person. The more experienced you are with them, the easier you will see through them or understand them. Your experience as a person (what you've gone through in your life) will also greatly affect this. It's hard to explain difficult concepts in simple words, but those that can have much power to either or trap people.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by my1percent
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Words do have power , think of some beautiful poetry ect. It can have the power to move.

To quote a line from a song by INXS " words are weapons sharper than knives " 1%

It is not the words with the power. If words had power they would affect EVERYONE. If someone says, That poem speaks to me, it means that this person is already emotionally connected to the idea behind the words, whereas other people aren't connected and are not moved at all by a poem or poetry in general.

Ever heard the saying:

The pen is mightier than the sword.

Originally posted by jiggerj
It is not the words with the power. If words had power they would affect EVERYONE. If someone says, That poem speaks to me, it means that this person is already emotionally connected to the idea behind the words, whereas other people aren't connected and are not moved at all by a poem or poetry in general.

The necessity of the biases of the observer of the words is naturally part of the whole effect.

This was taken into account in the OP as well as a following post.

When an entire planet is conditioned from birth to grant certain words certain "value" and certain word speakers certain "value" then there is great power in the words.

The inherent point of the thread is to bring to light the *current* power the words are being given and thus have over our civilization... even those who are aware of it but still required to interact with others who the words do still have power (and thus still indirectly influence us directly even if the word has no effect on us).

You do help add additional support for showing how different word/phrase preferences to speak about the same underlying thing can create the illusion of disagreement where there is none.

Best.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Tell me, do YOU feel anything when MY lover bestows romantic words upon ME? Of course not, because words have no power.

If my lover hugged me tight and whispered, "I love you so much that I would die for you!" I would be affected by her emotions (not her words). However, if a guy said the very same thing to me, well, I would feel something totally different.

1- Actually, when I witness a genuine display of love or romance, I am moved. Perhaps not as much as the recipient, but I a certainly affected. So that's the first point on which you're wrong. Maybe you don't feel moved by others' displays of affection, but don't assume everyone else is as cold as you.

2-Regarding your other poor example-- your lover whispered those words in your ear .

Without the words you could only guess or assume about the emotions being felt by another. Play with the semantics all you want-- even your own example showed how the words of one person created a tangible effect in another person-- words do have a certain kind of power. I wasn't, in my example (the one you referenced) claiming it's a "magical" power beyond mechanisms we understand-- although I believe that too-- but you can't deny that words have power without playing all kinds of semantics games.

Just like thoughts have power. I'm sure you would argue against that one, too, being one of ATS' many vocal just-add-water* skeptics who seem to enjoy shooting down the ideas of others for no discernible reason other than your own smug self-satisfaction and sense of superiority. But the fact remains-- nothing in this world has ever been accomplished without thought. But the phrase "thoughts have power" sounds far too new-agey for someone who believes in nothing beyond their own awesomeness... so you feel the need to argue. It's okay... I get it.

Given that words are extensions and expressions of thought-- even this fact alone means they have a certain kind of power. You can choose to believe these things or not. I really don't care about that. You're the only one who loses out by choosing ignorance over understanding these concepts. However, when you try to convince others to share your wrong beliefs because of a semantics game and a need to feel right even when you're not, you are doing them a disservice. But that's your deal.

Further, If you've never been emotionally moved by the words of another, I would recommend seeing a psychologist-- as that sounds like a pretty serious condition.

Absolutely fascinating thread.

Words do have power, look at how thoughtless words of adults create scars on children's psyches that they carry for life.

It would be extremely interesting o see if an NLP expert could pipe in and flesh out the topic.

reply to post by my1percent


"To quote a line from a song by INXS " words are weapons sharper than knives "

Ha-- I was just listening to that song this morning.

Here's another one, 'Words are very unnecessary, they can only do harm"

Rebel 5