Envy... is this why people hate??

What about hating material objects?

Like bombs or certain types of food?

I'd never want to be a mushroom.

Originally posted by namine
What about hating material objects?

Like bombs or certain types of food?

I'd never want to be a mushroom.

I don't think you can really hate a material object. We may say we hate money or bombs, etc, etc...but we don't hate the object itself, more likely the things that the said object does.

Bombs kill, money can cause all sorts of problems, mushrooms don't sit well with your taste buds.

So we hate the problems pertaining to these objects in reality. These problems can mostly be directed to the men which created them.

Not sure who to blame for the mushrooms though???

reply to post by timetothink



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I have confidence in you grasshopper.You are almost there.

Envy is a basic instinct......Let out a Zen like...OOOOOOOOHM.

reply to post by DAZ21

Not sure who to blame for the mushrooms though???

Nobody blames the mushroom. They are kept in the dark and fed bulls#$t.

Originally posted by DAZ21
I don't think you can really hate a material object. We may say we hate money or bombs, etc, etc...but we don't hate the object itself, more likely the things that the said object does.

Bombs kill, money can cause all sorts of problems, mushrooms don't sit well with your taste buds.

So we hate the problems pertaining to these objects in reality. These problems can mostly be directed to the men which created them.

Not sure who to blame for the mushrooms though???

Hm, well, by that logic, couldn't you say we can't really hate people then? We can't really hate murderers, only the disgust they make us feel when they murder for example? Why stop at people? We shouldn't hate men, our hate should be directed toward whatever made man the way he is? etc

There are many reasons we dislike or hate things and it is a lot more complex that an envy domino effect .

sorry but I feel you are wrong .

Typical psychology shift blame from self to someone else

Originally posted by namine

Originally posted by DAZ21
I don't think you can really hate a material object. We may say we hate money or bombs, etc, etc...but we don't hate the object itself, more likely the things that the said object does.

Bombs kill, money can cause all sorts of problems, mushrooms don't sit well with your taste buds.

So we hate the problems pertaining to these objects in reality. These problems can mostly be directed to the men which created them.

Not sure who to blame for the mushrooms though???

Hm, well, by that logic, couldn't you say we can't really hate people then? We can't really hate murderers, only the disgust they make us feel when they murder for example? Why stop at people? We shouldn't hate men, our hate should be directed toward whatever made man the way he is? etc

A man's upbringing is what creates his personality. You are right to a certain extent though.

This is why we get the abused becomes the abuser theme continuing in perpetuity. Sometimes the abusers, although we hate them, aren't to blame....well they are partially, but they hate what was done to them and envy the victim and thus re-enact what was done to them.

So yes we can always look back to a further source of blame, but ultimately anyone who performs an ill favoured action is also to blame.

reply to post by DAZ21

but ultimately anyone who performs an ill favoured action is also to blame.

I couldn't agree more. I think now I see why some people didn't like my question. I in no way was making a excuse for such behavior. I just attempted to show what I and many psychiatrist believe is at it's roots.

Originally posted by DAZ21
A man's upbringing is what creates his personality. You are right to a certain extent though.

This is why we get the abused becomes the abuser theme continuing in perpetuity. Sometimes the abusers, although we hate them, aren't to blame....well they are partially, but they hate what was done to them and envy the victim and thus re-enact what was done to them.

So yes we can always look back to a further source of blame, but ultimately anyone who performs an ill favoured action is also to blame.

Fair enough, I see your point. Although, in your previous post, you said you don't believe we can really hate material objects, only "what they do". Like a mushroom screwing with our taste buds. So, if we can hate that feeling of "bad taste", where would the envy be in that?

I just wonder why you feel it's not possible to hate something material, but it is possible to hate something abstract like a bad reaction.

If a man's upbringing creates his personality, then that would mean we would hate his upbringing if it leads him to make daft decisions later in life? I agree though about assigning blame to actions. But it's not like a man has full control over his upbringing to begin with, right?

If we can hate an "abusive upbringing" where would the envy be in that?

Not trying to be overly argumentative. Just throwing some questions out there for the sake of argument. I will say though, I don't buy that envy is the core of all hate, not by a long shot.

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by DAZ21

 

but ultimately anyone who performs an ill favoured action is also to blame.

I couldn't agree more. I think now I see why some people didn't like my question. I in no way was making a excuse for such behavior. I just attempted to show what I and many psychiatrist believe is at it's roots.

The best questions are sometimes the hardest ones to answer.

Originally posted by namine

Originally posted by DAZ21
A man's upbringing is what creates his personality. You are right to a certain extent though.

This is why we get the abused becomes the abuser theme continuing in perpetuity. Sometimes the abusers, although we hate them, aren't to blame....well they are partially, but they hate what was done to them and envy the victim and thus re-enact what was done to them.

So yes we can always look back to a further source of blame, but ultimately anyone who performs an ill favoured action is also to blame.

Fair enough, I see your point. Although, in your previous post, you said you don't believe we can really hate material objects, only "what they do". Like a mushroom screwing with our taste buds. So, if we can hate that feeling of "bad taste", where would the envy be in that?

I just wonder why you feel it's not possible to hate something material, but it is possible to hate something abstract like a bad reaction.

If a man's upbringing creates his personality, then that would mean we would hate his upbringing if it leads him to make daft decisions later in life? I agree though about assigning blame to actions. But it's not like a man has full control over his upbringing to begin with, right?

If we can hate an "abusive upbringing" where would the envy be in that?

Not trying to be overly argumentative. Just throwing some questions out there for the sake of argument. I will say though, I don't buy that envy is the core of all hate, not by a long shot.

edit on 22-2-2013 by namine because: (no reason given)

No, I don't believe It's possible to hate any reaction or any stimulation of the senses. You may say for instance, that you hate pain but you don't hate pain, you hate the the individual inducing the pain, or yourself for being clumsy. Don't blame the kettle for burning you, because you should have known it was hot, for example.

No we don't hate the man's upbringing, It's unfortunate but in the end It's him as an individual that has reacted on impulses from his personality. Ok, his upbringing has created envy for a life that he never had, and might make him make daft decisions, but It's upto him whether he acts on any impulses.

We can't hate his upbringing per se, but merely the parents or guardians that contributed. The envy from them either came from a prior abusive relationship, or another alternative situation. Your going to get the belt because daddy got the belt, for example.

Envy doesn't have to pertain to a wanting, but can be a jealously of others where the individual in question acts to remove the desired situation.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Originally posted by DAZ21
No, I don't believe It's possible to hate any reaction or any stimulation of the senses. You may say for instance, that you hate pain but you don't hate pain, you hate the the individual inducing the pain, or yourself for being clumsy.

Well then, I may say I hate how bad the mushroom tastes, but I don't hate how bad it tastes, I hate the mushroom (which should be impossible?), or myself for eating it?

Anyway, I agree with the rest of your post, most of it anyway. I simply don't understand this obsession with attaching envy to every instance of hate, even where it stretches logic for no good reason. For example, you could hate the mere concept or act of abuse, without necessarily attaching an instance of it to anyone and then forcing envy into the equation to keep your formula satisfied. Maybe you just feel physical abuse is appalling because the notion of violating human rights is appalling? It seems like you are taking something straight forward and tossing in a bunch of variables that don't necessarily fit in order to craft some sort of sophisticated findings.

I think envy and hate are two separate things, and although they may intertwine in various circumstances, the presence of one doesn't guarantee the presence of the other.

reply to post by rockymcgilicutty


I have never been good with Zen.

I will try.


Oooooooo.......look! A squirrel!

reply to post by rockymcgilicutty

Anger, envy, hatred... lead you to the dark side they will...




Would penis-envy lead to hate crimes against the tall, thin and bald?

reply to post by rockymcgilicutty


Fear is a big precipitate of hatred, also.

I can appreciate breaking this kind of thing down in an attempt to better understand it, but I try not to let it preoccupy me too much.

Battle not with monsters and the whole abyss staring back at you thing.