Question to Christians regarding Jehovahs witnesses.

reply to post by Xcouncil=wisdom


Bravo! Going to the source is always the best way! I haven't been to the site, but I can imagine they have a means to send questions to...I would think.

Anyway, good answer!

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Why do so many Christian have a problem with Jehovahs witnesses? I see them being dismissed as a cult. They have been called non-Christian, anti-Christian etc.

Is it because they see Jesus as a created being, as opposed to being divine? Or is it because JWs don't believe in a trinity? Or is it because they place more emphasis on God, instead of Jesus? Why exactly?

I don't agree with everything they believe in... but I'd like some Christian inputs on this.

EDIT : I am looking for theological reasons regarding JWs. Not just personal experiences with JWs.

edit on 22-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

It could be that they travel into obscure territories as brave missionaries just as the Jesuits did, the Mormons do; into Third World countries to bring their flavor of the bible to unwashed masses? Perhaps it is a "you got there first before we did or you are invading our area of doctrine because we claimed this sector of peoples as OUR property". Mental minds to mine, me first, our doctrine overrides yours. Who gets there first is the dictom believed first. Throw the Coca-Coca bottle into a Margaret Mead type villiage New Guinea with the message inside, God has arrived in 4 forms AT ONCE; one that is invisible, one that is made of glass, one that is air, the last one is made of Coca-Cola.

Originally posted by Leuan
Ask them what separates them from traditional christianity and they will point to certain verses in their own bible

To add not only to their own version of the Bible, there is the Kings James Version, the Catholic 'Living Bible" the Seventh Day Adventist thinking,, Evangelical "New American Standard Bible" and about 15 other versions. Try to get two people from different denonminations together to read something really simple; like

Chronicles 11. Then all Israel gathered to David at Hebron and said, "Behold we are your bone flesh in blood".

Chronicles 11. Then the leaders of Isreal went to David at Hebron and told him "We are your relatives".

Two examples of different publications of the same idea. Totally different unless you are poetically minded.

A lot of Christians in the body have failed to see the need for unity. A good illustration of this is the word of Sonia Sotomayor. She said younger judges come to realize that the rulings of other judges are just the genuine opinions of those judges and that we can't impugn the motives of a judge because we disagree with him. Judges basically want to make good rulings, not serve an ideological power or selfish motivation, but they really want to rule to the best of their ability.

All denominations, and hopefully all people everywhere are acting in good faith. We may disagree with them but we cannot flat-out reject them and impugn their motives, assuming they are anti-Christian or they are cultists with evil agendas. Every member of the body serves a function and that is the message of unity. I do not believe in these false divisions set in place by man. Either you are born from above or you are not born from above, whether you call yourself JW or Methodist or this or that, you either are or you are not.

"KIND
HONEST
HARD-WORKING
GENEROUS
ETHICAL/MORAL
GIVING
FULL OF LOVE FOR MANKIND "

unless you were one and realized the hypocracy of working for a publishing company. I know this is off topic about why mainstream christians have issues with JWs. but I saw some BS. Remember the bias before going in, but try looking at some EX JW sites online and you will see more truth of the religion than their propoganda sites will give.

Personaly I believe its what a previous poster said about competition. It makes them look bad when others out there claim to be christian also but dont believe their way. I think it makes them feel others look at them as being as crazy as they feel the offshoots are.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by OuttaHere

 

Good post.
This is the kind of info I was looking for.

Good post even better. I would think the answer is obvious, if you cant beat them join them; all mysteries will then be revealed (the empty holy communion plate to be partaken of all; nothing consumed is a mind bender).

I want to address the bible issue that has been brought up, there are so many bibles out there today, some good translations some bad. You can find them on the internet (I will source quote from some of them at the end). For me if a bible has removed all traces of God's personal name it is a bad translation, so at least in that regard the NWT version is good. See my signature for the King James version that fully restored it. Also if you want to distribute free bibles in over 200 countries in print and digitally on the internet in dozens of languages from Acholi to Zulu; it is advantageous to have your own bible, that is a fact. You can also make it available in any format such as EPUB, PDF, MP3, and just online for those that don't want to use up memory on files

Bible - Pick a Language & Format

Christians should acknowledge this facilitates fulfillment of basic things Jesus said......

Matthew 24: 14
Matthew 28: 18-20

And whereas these commands are explicit and entail very specific actions, I must ask what is a greater failing of Christians to fail to follow through on, these directions from Jesus, or to believe in a trinity that has a shaky doctrinal start to begin with ?
Is the Christian Trinity a Conspiracy ?

Originally posted by wildtimes
After that I put a sign in the front door window that said
"NO SOLICITING OF ANY KIND, EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY"

I had to do the same thing because of Jehovahs Witnesses. A small group of them kept coming around and wouldn't stop. They even tried to give me bible reading assignments and said we would 'discuss them' the next time they came by .. and they kept it up week after week. I finally put a sign on my door .. a really strong one ...

It looked a lot like this one

It worked well. No problems after that ...

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Why do so many Christian have a problem with Jehovahs witnesses? I see them being dismissed as a cult. They have been called non-Christian, anti-Christian etc.

Is it because they see Jesus as a created being, as opposed to being divine? Or is it because JWs don't believe in a trinity? Or is it because they place more emphasis on God, instead of Jesus? Why exactly?

I don't agree with everything they believe in... but I'd like some Christian inputs on this.

EDIT : I am looking for theological reasons regarding JWs. Not just personal experiences with JWs.

edit on 22-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Dear Skorpion,

I have a question for you? Do you believe the Bible is God's inspired word?

I ask that question for a reason, because in order to reason with you from the scriptures we must have a common ground. If you don't believe in the scriptures then first it must be established that the scriptures are inspired of God and are trustworthy.

Now most so-called Christian religions claim to believe that the Bible is God's word. So you should be able to base all your doctrine soundly on what the Bible states.

But to reason with you why it is a good idea to talk with Jehovah's Witnesses if you want to know about their beliefs notice what scripture says:

(Acts 28:22) . . .But we think it proper to hear from you what your thoughts are, for truly as regards this sect it is known to us that everywhere it is spoken against.”


Today just as in the first century people everywhere speak out falsely and lyingly against Jehovah's Witnesses. Notice, just one example in this thread I read somewhere someone said we "kidnap children" which is quite simply stupid and quite false.

In any event, if you are really sincere about wanting to know about our beliefs then it would be noble on your part to do what the Jews in the first century did when they were everyone everywhere spreading slander and lies and speaking against the Christians. And that is go to them for that is the proper thing to do.

You can find more information about us from us in the link in my signature.

In order to know if a dollar bill is a forgery or not you don't have to study all the forgeries to understand so. All you have to do is study the real thing, and then all of the forgeries are easily detected. Studying the Bible is the only way to find out who has the truth and are real Christians. Read the Bible and then ask yourself, does this religion who professes to be Christian follow the Bible's teachings? That is it. It is that simple:

(John 13:35) By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.”

(Romans 10:13-15) . . .For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: “How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”

apparently a double post

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by wildtimes
After that I put a sign in the front door window that said
"NO SOLICITING OF ANY KIND, EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY"

I had to do the same thing because of Jehovahs Witnesses. A small group of them kept coming around and wouldn't stop. They even tried to give me bible reading assignments and said we would 'discuss them' the next time they came by .. and they kept it up week after week. I finally put a sign on my door .. a really strong one ...

It looked a lot like this one

It worked well. No problems after that ...

"No soliciting" signs do not apply to us and we do not look as them as applying to us. The scripture that applies to us is this one:

(2 Corinthians 2:17) . . .[We are;] for we are not peddlers of the word of God as many men are, but as out of sincerity, yes, as sent from God, under God’s view, in company with Christ, we are speaking.

Since we neither solitict money nor are looking for money we are not soliciting. Some may wrongly assume that Jehovah's Witnesses are going door-to-door to make money, either because of false information, or just prejudice. But if you inform yourself on the matter you will know that we make no money. We have no paid clergy, no one in any of our branches gets paid any money, our elders make no money, we ask for no money when we go door-to-door. In fact we sacrifice our time, and our money to donate for the literature we produce with our own labor, and we spend our own money to buy decent clothes to wear that dignifies our work, and we spend our own money to put gas in our cars to drive to the peoples homes. We sacrifice a lot to talk with our neighbors, and we ask NOTHING back in return. We have no collections at our kingdom halls. No one anywhere among Jehovah's Witnesses, even our governing body, is paid anything for the work we do. For we believe what Jesus said here:

(Matthew 10:8, 9) . . .YOU received free, give free. 9 Do not procure gold or silver or copper for YOUR girdle purses,

The Bible should not be used to make money. The truth is free and those who proclaim the truth do so freely just as Jesus did, asking for nothing, especially monetary considerations in return:

(Revelation 22:17) . . .And the spirit and the bride keep on saying: “Come!” And let anyone hearing say: “Come!” And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.


In contrast to the free service that we self-sacrifcingly out of love of neighbor and God give, the clergy of Christendom charges money for services that are of no spiritual benefit just as the prophecy states:

(Isaiah 55:1, 2) . . .Hey there, all YOU thirsty ones! Come to the water. And the ones that have no money! Come, buy and eat. Yes, come, buy wine and milk even without money and without price. 2 Why do YOU people keep paying out money for what is not bread, and why is YOUR toil for what results in no satisfaction? . . .

Originally posted by SubAce
"No soliciting" signs do not apply to us and we do not look as them as applying to us.

Dude ... 'no soliciting' definately applies to you and all the Jehovahs Witnesses.
You are trying to get us to buy into your cult.
'GO AWAY' means 'GO AWAY'.
Just that you are arguing with me shows why the signs are needed.

reply to post by FlyersFan


reply to post by SubAce


It is not genuinely spiritual to argue nor accuse.

The people of the True Religion use sublime familial virtue as a basis, and if the people of any religion or cult practice kindness and charity they are members of the True Religion.

Why? Because God's justice is incredibly charitable and merciful, and looks with pity upon even the most spiritual man. The man at least knows to humble himself.

It does no good if you have all the wisdom and knowledge of all religions and are highly trained in ethics, if you do not view you enemy like you view your friend.

Take to heart Jesus' one sentence sermon that you must "Love your neighbor, as you love yourself,"

reply to post by backcase


I agree with you, a very good statement. And may that never happen, arguing about the Bible, that is. Out of human weakness I can see how some can do it, but God is even patient with them. I am reminded of the "sons of thunder," remember why they got that nickname? Wasn't it because James and John wanted to call down lightning on a Samaritan city that didn't want to listen to Jesus' preaching?

Yet as you mentioned these two things are well to remember:

(2 Timothy 2:23-25) . . .Further, turn down foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing they produce fights. 24 But a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, keeping himself restrained under evil, 25 instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed; as perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth,


And this:

(1 Peter 3:15) . . .But sanctify the Christ as Lord in YOUR hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of YOU a reason for the hope in YOU, but doing so together with a mild temper and deep respect.


A preacher of God's word must always have a mild spirit, and deep respect while doing so, all the meanwhile turning down foolish and ignorant questionings knowing they do nothing but produce fights.

I can only assume you presumed I was arguing when I shed light on the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses are not solicitors of God's kingdom. But I was not arguing, just helping those who erroneously viewed that way to understand that their thinking was wrong on the matter. I did not mean to argue. And if I was mistakenly taken for arguing in so shedding light on the matter I apologize.

The fact that we are not solicitors has also* been established by the highest court in the United States on a number of occasions where they have vindicated our right to freedom of expression and religion in our preaching work, which the government has declared on a number of occasions, is not solicitation. See recent as well as old Supreme Court rulings in favor of Jehovah's Witnesses on this matter.

reply to post by SubAce


Very well,

Many people of spiritual values forget to make allowance for the freewill of others.

The Infinite God has compassion which extends to every heart, every thought, and to every imperfection making even imperfection itself perfect.

The Witnesses keep showing the errors of others like the Catholics. Here is a simple example. Every sunday the Catholic congregations recite together the "lords prayer". This practice is not supported in the scriptures. Quite the opposite. Jesus says ...when you pray, use not vain repetitions... in Matthew 6:7. Jesus gave the prayer as an example. He did not give it to be reused.

It's not Christians that have a problem with Jehovahs witnesses. It's people in general.

Reading some of the replies here, this is my input.


1. No one is perfect.

Yes, there are many Jehovahs witnesses that say they are, but they are not. As with any religion, many say they are, but are not.

Yes, there are many JW's that dress up in there suites and go to there kingdom halls to do there things, then go home get drunk and do stuff the bible tells them not to do. As do many other religious people out there.

Christians vs Jehovahs witnesses

Trinity: "I'm am the father, the son, the holly ghost"
Christians believe that this is one person of the same.
Jehovahs witnesses believe that the father is Jehovah, the son is Jesus, the holly ghost is jehovah's power, and that everything created came from Jehovah. (when Jesus prayed, he prayed to his father. And not to himself)

All religions vs Jehovahs witnesses

The bible saids be like jesus, go forth and preach about Jehovah new kingdom.
Jehovahs witnesses are the only ones doing that.

Why Jesus was not allowed offspring (children). Jesus was born perfect, therefore any offsprings would also be perfect and would not die and still be alive today. (in the beginning Adam and Eve were created as a perfect beings, to live forever and fulfill the earth. No one wants to die, but thanks to Satan along with Adam and Eves sin, we die.)

People think Jehovahs witnesses are an cult (look up the word cult), then all religions are an cult.

Jehovahs witnesses and disfellowshipped. There is no difference then a Christain going to repent, except if you keep doing the same sin over and over, you are not truly repent (asking for forgiveness means you don't keep sinning) and therefore the disfellowshipped of Jehovahs witnesses only means that you must find true forgiveness with you and Jehovah. They still go to the hall, they are not allowed communications with other witnesses until they are truly repented for their sins and get reinstated.

Holiday vs Jehovahs witnesses

Halloween, Christmas, easter and so on are all pagan holidays.
Jesus was not born on christmas.
Jesus and Easter has nothing to do with anything. Look up Nisan 14
Why celebrate these holidays when the bible tells you not too.

All religions vs world views

The bible tells one not to murder. World views that as its ok to murder (going to war), but wrong if you kill your neighbor, love ones, whom ever. Jehovahs witnesses don't engage in worldly events, therefore they will never join into the military.

End.

Ps. Anyone can do what ever they like, it's your choice, it's all about what YOU get out of it.