Question to Christians regarding Jehovahs witnesses.

Why do so many Christian have a problem with Jehovahs witnesses? I see them being dismissed as a cult. They have been called non-Christian, anti-Christian etc.

Is it because they see Jesus as a created being, as opposed to being divine? Or is it because JWs don't believe in a trinity? Or is it because they place more emphasis on God, instead of Jesus? Why exactly?

I don't agree with everything they believe in... but I'd like some Christian inputs on this.

EDIT : I am looking for theological reasons regarding JWs. Not just personal experiences with JWs.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


most of the ones ive known(most!) are hypocrites. the get in there snazzy suites and dresses during there gatherings, and the rest of the time they get drunk and beat there wife's or cheat on them. there kids say they dont care that they dont get presents for days of celebrations(birthdays, Christmas) but they always had the best toys and gaming consoles, so they were obviously getting presents even though they played holier than thow. they also spread political beliefs through out there surmens and literature(which i know isnt a play only used by the jehovas). like i said most of the ones ive known are fake, and some a little crazy. one of my best childhood friends was a Jehovah, but he only partook because his mom made him, now that he is a adult he has left that world behind and i can see he is better for it.


btw i dont identify with any church, im just giving one mans perspective on your question

reply to post by DocHolidaze

most of the ones ive known(most!) are hypocrites. the get in there snazzy suites and dresses during there gatherings, and the rest of the time they get drunk and beat there wife's or cheat on them.

Ummm... thanks for your inputs but I was looking for a theological reason on as to why JWs aren't popular with other Christians. What is it about their beliefs that you have a problem with.

I too know of hypocritical Christians who also get drunk, sleep around, use foul language and act cruelly. I can't use that as a reason to paint all Christians with the same brush.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


i dont give a sh*t about beliefs, not jehovas, muslims, jews, cristains ,ect.

i am going on the fact that most jehovas ive meet are shady and hypocritical and a portion of those mentally unstable, were i can say others ive meet stay at about the normal shady, hypocritical, and unstable rate, something like 50/50 were as jehovas are at about 90/10.

i cant say ive met many muslims, the only people ive met that are more shady in percentage are druggie atheists.

but then again maybe the town i grew up in had a bad group of jehovas, and the few ive met in my new town just happen to be shady as well

like i said one mans perspective.

I dated a girl who was a Jehova's witness once, and she told me that I had to have the final say in everything, and she was really uncomfortable when I tried to get her to take initiative.

In addition, my room-mate recently moved out of a Jehova's witnesses house - he had loaned the guy $10,000 to buy the house, and bought the fridge, but the guy not only refused to pay him back but stole the receipts and called the police on my room-mate and said he stole his fridge - and that he owed my roomie nothing. The police, meanwhile, found out that he had stolen my room-mate's keys and put them in the glove box of his car...

These are the only two Jehova's witnesses I've met so far, so that is hardly much to go on... but one sketchy thing about them is the fact that they isolate their followers from the outside world, and another is that they teach their women to be completely subservient.

theologically speaking the problem christians honestly have is that
this group decided to splinter off the mainstream sects and start their
own version, it always throws a wrench in the plans when your own
group of believers cant agree on what they believe.

Selling the one true god is tricky when his opinion is simply what
ever it is people choose to say it is or interpret it as being, there again
this goes to the fundamental flaw with every religion, how can one
ever hope to be saved if there are so many claiming only they are the
proper way and everyone else has it wrong, it really just comes down
to which one individuals find appealing.

Christians don't like competition any more than the other religions do,
especially when that competition steals their idea and changes it,
you can also see this in muslim teachings, there are divisions within
that religion as well, both claiming they are right and fighting over
it, while we mostly maintain a peaceful co existence within our religions
here in the US just wait and see what happens if one of the big ones
manages to take power completely. it will be the end of freedom for
us just like it has been for every country who has allowed religion to
make law and rule with their so called "morality".

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I am fairly sure it's the rejection of the Trinity and the belief Jesus is not god incarnate. As you said.

every jehovah's witness i've ever known has been mentally unstable in some way, and i spent 20 years in a community where this cult belief was rife.

i think it's also down to the fact that the cult was only started 100 odd years ago and has no actual grounding in anything realistic. it's all down to the original beliefs of charles taze russell as far as i'm aware.

en.wikipedia.org...

I've only known one, a lovely young lady from Aca Pulco who had a darling baby. She was a sweet and honest person, and being as I was "the newbie" (though with much better credentials) and my colleagues didn't "want" her because she said she was a JW, I took her on.

One of the nicest families I've ever met. She explained to me about some of the beliefs, especially the no celebrations part - she never once tried to push it on me, and said she didn't care what other people did, she didn't judge them.

The others I've met were the door-knocking variety, and they were pushy, but not impolite. Most of the time I'd pretend I wasn't home while they rang the doorbell repeatedly. But after my dad died in early August of 2010, a couple of them "caught" me sitting in my front yard, where I was reading and mourning intermittently.

I being vulnerable and not in the mood to argue, listened to them for a moment, and said it wasn't a good time for me. They asked if they might come back. I said "okay", and accepted their 'Watchtower' magazines -- more out of simple curiosity (this was at the launch of my still ongoing "religion" studies, which was not my first exploration, but a renewed investigation).

I read their magazines at my leisure, and dismissed the ideas. They came back on THANKSGIVING DAY, while my husband and I were getting ready to go to my mom's for dinner. How discourteous! They started trying to show me passages in the Bible, but I sent them away. The next time they showed up we were having a small argument, and I simply told them it wasn't a good time and shut the door in their faces.

Then they showed up again ON CHRISTMAS MORNING, when we were again preparing to go to my mother's house.
After that I put a sign in the front door window that said
"NO SOLICITING OF ANY KIND, EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY"

Haven't seen them since.

The door-knockers I've been ambushed by were just that way, pushy salesmen-types. The part of their "doctrine" that bugs me is the 144,000 slots only in heaven. Surely they've already filled those??????

Anyway, yeah, rather nutty, like the Mormons and SDAs...no thanks.

And also, because they don't ever celebrate ANYTHING, it seems they are just waiting to die, and spreading doom and gloom and eternal damnation.....

in other words, they don't have ANY FUN, and to me that's a WASTE of a life. Sorry to say, that's rather how I see Islam as well.

The most important theological issue is that JW's do not believe that Jesus is God incarnate. This is the deal-breaker since to be within the realm or orthodoxy a Christian must believe in the divinity of Christ as the basis of their entire faith. Hence the term pseudo-Christian cult is applied to JW's.

Since they do not believe in the Godhood of Christ, they also do not believe in the trinity, a doctrine which is not specifically ennumerated in the Bible but which is manifestly borne out by the text.

Additionally, Jehovah's Witnesses have their own translation of the Bible (The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures) which scholars agree employs a peculiarly JW eisegesis on disputed texts and is, in many areas, inconsistent with good methods of scholarly translation. All other translations are rejected by the JW.

ANother reason for the divide and the definition of "cult" being applied to JW's is because JW's themselves reject all the rest of Christendom as lost, claiming the Watchtower as the sole authority and arbiter of correct doctrine on earth. Most Christians accept other Christian denominations as legitimate, even if they disagree on doctrines and practices peripheral to the faith. When a group branches off and declares all the rest of Christendom in error, they are often defined as a cult.

Additionally some other peculiar doctrines of the JW's include the idea that heaven is only for a very limited number of people and that everyone else who is saved will spend eternity inhabiting an earthly paradise instead. They teach annihilation of the wicked (there is no hell) and soul sleep for the faithful (they do not go to heaven but "sleep" in death until the resurrection). These are not usually cited as cultic doctrines because they are peripheral to the actual issue of WHO Jesus is.

There are other differences regarding blood transfusions and celebrating birthdays and holidays, but I don't have time right now to go into all that. Hope my response helped.

reply to post by OuttaHere


Good post.
This is the kind of info I was looking for.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I do not even know what JW's even believe. Your not talking to a Christian if that "christian" says they hate an individual or group of people.

I still make the sign of the cross when driving by any kingdom hall's.

I do hear that they like to kidnap children, but I would gladly speak to one if they came to my door to tell me about themselves.

Interesting thread so far, show's alot of people prejudice and bias pretty clearly.

So, general responses. (as almost every one of the suggestions made by posters above have been threads in the past at ATS)

No celebrations: Not entirely accurate, however JW's are very careful about traditions and their sources. And as almost all ATS's aggree, things like Christmas and Valentines Day, Easter...are culminations of early hollidays celebrating 'pagan' gods...and things like Halloween. Some like to say "its not what the holliday meant then, its what it means now" No...Knowing the source of a tradition or holliday as being worship to another god in some way, makes it something that a person who worships God (Jehovah) a contadiction of faith.
Witnesses put an extreemly high priority on family values, so things like wedding anniversarys are usually celebrated. However giving gifts require no specified holliday and takes place often.

The Trinity...and Jesus Divinity.
This is sometimes a cloudy subject because the people that believe in the Trinity can't find it being directly supported by the bible...but they can infer it. Well in old old religios belief systems, the trinity was common theme, and was later brought into christianity by the Catholic faith.
Witnesses do believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit as one, IN PURPOSE : NOT FORM
Witnesses Look to Jesus as King and Savior, however The Fathers Son, and placed in his position by his Father.

If I didn't have to go to work I'd really like to keep going however here's a thread from a while ago that might be helpful:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by wildtimes

Sorry to say, that's rather how I see Islam as well.

Islam is not all about gloom and doom. This could be another discussion but would be off topic here, maybe we could continue here
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread927929/pg1

Ask them what separates them from traditional christianity and they will point to certain verses in their own bible

reply to post by OuttaHere

They teach annihilation of the wicked (there is no hell) and soul sleep for the faithful (they do not go to heaven but "sleep" in death until the resurrection).

I have heard similar from various Christians from various Christian denominations.

Hell is essentially death in the conventional sense. People don't go straight to Heaven, but wait for a resurrection.

Not the majority, but out of the some 40,000 denominations some believe this.

Also I think you missed another important distinction. Don't the JWs believe Jesus is The Arch angel Michael incarnate?

reply to post by wildtimes

and spreading doom and gloom and eternal damnation.....

in other words, they don't have ANY FUN, and to me that's a WASTE of a life. Sorry to say, that's rather how I see Islam as well.

I agree. Then again, that's how I feel towards all of these religions Doom, gloom, and time better spent on other things.

For those who are actually interested in what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe...

www.jw.org...

There are many topics, many pages, and almost all of thier publications are downloadable and searchable through that database

Make your own decisions

X

reply to post by Xcouncil=wisdom


Thank you for a stellar answer. As I've been reading the posts, it occurred to me that people in general are suspicious of what they don't understand.

You're right about the Trinity. Witnesses believe Jesus is the son of God (Jehovah) and that the Holy Spirit is simply the conduit of their power. When witnesses pray, they pray to Jehovah, in the name of Jesus, through the Holy Spirit. Hope I didn't confuse.

Also, they DO allow and encourage people to use their own bibles to back up biblical teachings. They use their own bible and created it to have the name of god in it. I'm sure the "scholars" would disapprove, because the original writings were copied down with God's name removed...the priests felt the lowly and unwashed would "sully" the name and weren't worthy of it.

Did you know that Hitler also murdered Jehovah's Witnesses? They were called International Bible Students then.

Witnesses are ostracized because they don't follow the herd when it comes to mainstream religion. Their biggest and most important "celebration", if you will, is the called the Memorial, and it's all about Jesus during his final persecution and death, and especially his rising from the dead, promising eternal life for "whosoever believes".

Every witness I've known, and I have known MANY, including my brother, has been:

KIND
HONEST
HARD-WORKING
GENEROUS
ETHICAL/MORAL
GIVING
FULL OF LOVE FOR MANKIND

They heed the bible text about the word of god being spread to the ends of the earth before Armageddon. That is why they earnestly try to help people. Although going door to door really makes people irritated, it helps to remind yourself that they are trying to follow God's wishes. I have felt the same about the Mormons and other religious zealots I have spoken with.

People are inherently flawed, and I believe you'll find bad, hypocritical behavior in every religion. I never saw cruel or hateful acts with the witnesses, or strict judgement, but they aren't perfect and I'm sure they make mistakes every day.

Also, the 144,000 are the ruling class who are to help and guide the rest of mankind when the dead are raised. The people on earth will have a paradise, and to be honest...I love our earth. I would choose to stay on earth.
It's what I know, where I'm most comfortable, and a paradise earth with no NWO/AGENDA 21/chemtrails, wars, etc would be heaven to me.

The best way to find out about Jehovah's witnesses is just to talk to them. They aren't psycho cultists, only regular people with hardships just like you and I but with a passion for God.

One more thing, the Watchtower is simply their beliefs as they pertain to everyday life for us regular Joes and Janes. They just use it as a learning tool or conversation starter.

Well, I got long winded...sorry, but there is a lot of disinformation out there. I think as a country, tolerance instead of judgement goes a long way.

Thanks.