Eve and Nin-Ti: A Paradise Parallel

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

Yet, as you just said, the parallels exist everywhere. So, by what authority do you deem the Sumerian paradise myth to be incorrect, yet the Biblical one correct, if there is clear evidence suggesting the Biblical account is based on the Sumerian account?

So, which god was and still is the last one standing?

There's your answer.

reply to post by Deetermined


Well, looking at the state of the world, it's governments and spiritual leaders, the corruption and disregard for human dignity and life in general, I'd say that the "God" that is the last standing is the one who your religion has said all along is the ruler of the world.

reply to post by windword


It looks that way right now. The God of the Bible said he would allow it to get like this and even worse before he steps in to stop the "god of this world". The "god of this world" will pose and declare himself "God" over all before he is stopped by the one true God. Considering what the Bible says about Israel and what we see happening to it today, I have every reason to believe that this is the way it will unfold and be revealed. We'll just have to wait and see to know for sure.

reply to post by Deetermined


The leading faiths of the world right now include:

Hinduism, under the governance of Brahma, through manifestations of Visnu, Siva, and Krsna.
Buddhism, under the guidance of the Buddha, the Dalai Lama, and various Bodhisattva.
Judaism, under the guidance of their jealous God, YHVH.
Christianity, under the guidance of their "loving" God, and His son, Jesus Christ.
Islam, under the guidance of the abstract deity, Allah.
The Jain, Baha'i, and Sikh, who don't necessarily have a God, but an ideal.
Neopaganism and Wicca who honor the Triple Goddess and Horned God.

So, technically, under those schools of thought the Sumerian, Babylonian, Hittite/Hurrian, Greek, Celtic, and Norse pagan deities are still alive and well, being worshiped by various groups of people all over the world. Your God is by no means the "Last One Standing," as you would like to believe. What He is though, is the current custodian of the planet, the "Biggest" God around, and as such, the care of this world is in His hands. On that front, He has certainly fared far worse than those who's job it was before him.

Your God has certainly failed to take care of the planet left in His charge.

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Deetermined

 

The leading faiths of the world right now include:

Hinduism, under the governance of Brahma, through manifestations of Visnu, Siva, and Krsna.

They have over 300 million gods and believe that every god is a part of God, so I'm not sure they count.

Buddhism, under the guidance of the Buddha, the Dalai Lama, and various Bodhisattva.

Buddha isn't a god and doesn't have a god. It's more philosophy driven than belief driven.

Judaism, under the guidance of their jealous God, YHVH.
Christianity, under the guidance of their "loving" God, and His son, Jesus Christ.
Islam, under the guidance of the abstract deity, Allah.

To some degree, these three religions have the same God.

The Jain, Baha'i, and Sikh, who don't necessarily have a God, but an ideal.

Another group without a God. Actually, I always thought the Baha'i faith practiced Islam in their own way.

Neopaganism and Wicca who honor the Triple Goddess and Horned God.

Not sure this group is large enough to be worthy of mention, but I predict that we'll see it start to get larger as Satan continues to take over the earth before proclaiming himself as God.

Your God has certainly failed to take care of the planet left in His charge.

That's why he said he was "preparing a place". He never intended for this planet to last forever. A new heaven/earth has been created to replace it.

I assume that you are aware that a number of parallels have been found between Sumerian stories and the Old Testament, particularly in the Pentateuch. I have been studying the Bible as allegory, and I believe I have an explanation. First of all, it is worth noting that before archeologists discovered the remains of the Sumerian civilization, there was no record of them having ever existed. In other words, the history of their existence was wiped from the face of the earth. The absence of any mention of their civilization in the Bible seems remarkable, and their exclusion from Genesis Chapter 10 (Table of Nations) seems particularly mysterious.

Now, one of the clearest parallels is between the Sumerian writings and the Bible is the account of a great flood. If we accept the idea that a Sumerian story was placed upon Noah’s Ark, then we might then surmise that the “world” destroyed by the flood was Sumer and all of the animals and people on the Ark represented other parts of Sumerian literature. Actually, it is better to think of the “water” of the “flood” as representing a new form of writing that replaced cuneiform. The Ark itself would also have to be viewed as representing all the Books of Moses and Moses himself might be considered another version of Noah. (However, in allegory, writings can be personified and therefore Moses might actually be thought of as the personification of the books linked to him.) Of course this means that the “Nile” (from where Moses was drawn) was not the Nile and “Egypt” was not Egypt and the “Hebrews” were not really enslaved there. In other words, the events described in the Books of Moses are allegory of Sumerian and Semitic Akkadian history.

reply to post by Deetermined


Hinduism has both a polytheistic branch, and a monotheistic branch. I've heard there's even an atheistic branch, although I don't know much about that. But, figures like Varuna, Visnu, and Agni who predate the worship of Brahma certainly suggest that not every Hindu believes all of their gods are manifestations of The God. That practice, by the way, is known as a Henotheism. Egypt utilized it during the Akhenaten period. Hinduism certainly counts as a world faith.

Buddhism utilizes many, many of the Hindu gods. Deities like Yama, the death-god who weighs your Karma, or Sridevi who represents the divine feminine manifesting on Earth are both present in Buddhist doctrines. Both Yama and Sridevi are deities who even guard and protect the Dalai Lama as well. Buddhism has a polytheistic and an atheistic element to it as well.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam having the same deity I have no problem agreeing with. I often try to not make that suggestion though, as Jews and Christians tend to get very angry, or defensive, if you suggest that their religion shares anything in common with the Muslims. But yes, I am aware that Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed are all prophets of YHVH, who began his rule with the raising up of Abraham.

Jainism is a mix of Hinduism and Buddhism, with belief in an over-arching, all-encompassing "spirit" that operates and acts through sacred energies. Their concept of God is as ethereal as the Muslim concept of Allah is. They have many mystical and spiritual beliefs, and are definitely not "non-religious."

The Baha'i are more Universal than Islamist. They believe in a single God, whose manifestations include all of the leading figures of the world's great religions. The "all religions are one" crowd are the Baha'i people.

Sikhism is the mystical element of Hinduism, which spawned the whole line of Gurus and Yogis. You can thank the Sikh's for the majority of the New Age enlightenment Gurus who so captivate Americans.

The mystical element of Islam is called Sufism.

The general estimates concerning worldwide population and these practices would be:

Christianity - 2 billion worldwide
Islam - 1.5 billion worldwide
Hinduism - 1 billion worldwide
Buddhism - 600 million worldwide
Sikhs - 27 million worldwide
Judaism - 13 million worldwide
Baha'i - 7 million worldwide
Jainism - 4 million worldwide
Neopagan - 1 million worldwide

Now, I would like to see you tell the billion Hindus, the 600 million Buddhists, the 27 million Sikhs, the 7 million Baha'i, the 4 million Jains, and the roughly 1 million Neopagans (the number is likely far larger, but Neopaganism has no central "authority" figure who could collect membership data) that they're not worshiping a god, or gods. No, just because your definition of god differs from theirs, does not mean their gods are any less legitimate than yours. The majority is not always right.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by swordwords


The Sumerian deluge myth was said to have occurred after the founding of the first five Sumerian city-states: Eridu, Bad Tibira, Lagash, Sippar, and Shuruppak. The deluge myth explains very well that Enlil, upset with the ill-treatment he was receiving from the Sumerian people, decided to flood the world and destroy them because of the offenses they had committed against him. Enki, who loved man, warned Ziusudra, who built a boat and spared his family and farm from the deluge. Afterward, Ziusudra was granted immortality and Enki began a second attempt at human beings. This time, he made them finite, and with the ability to learn and recover from their mistakes. This second group of humans begins the Golden Age and the Heroic Age of Sumer, with figures like Dumuzi, Gilgamesh, Lugalbanda, and others. It has nothing to do with the loss of their writings and records. It has everything to do with the moral and ethical nature of mankind though.

As for the lack of Sumer in the Bible, there's a very clear explanation for this. Sumerians, as an ethnic people, were assimilated by the Semitic Akkadians and Assyrians between 2500 and 2000 BCE. The Hebrews did not come to power in southern Mesopotamia until nearly 2000 years later, around 400 BCE when they suffered the Babylonian captivity and began writing their records. The Akkadian-Babylonian myths, on which the Hebrew ones were based, were in turn based on the Sumerian ones. The Jews never knew the Sumerians existed, because they only knew the previous 2000 years of Akkadian-Babylonian rule.

Yet, the Babylonian epics not only mention the Sumerians, but they also take Sumerian figures (like Gilgamesh). And, on top of that, much of the Sumerian literature of legal, geographic, and war-related issues (completely lacking mythological elements) mentions the Akkadians, Assyrians, Elamites, Mitannians, Kassites, Hittites and other Semitic people whom the Jews later encountered when they began their exploration of the ancient Near East. And finally, the Akkadian-Babylonian writing was Sumerian cuneiform, only translated into their native, Semitic tongue. Sumeriologists were actually able to use the Akkadian-Babylonian writings to help translate Sumerian writings the same way Egyptologists used the Rosetta stone.

Again though, it's not about who has the right story. It's about the fact that Sumerians, Babylonians, Hittites, Canaanites, Greeks, Jews, Christians, and Muslims all saw value in these same lessons and stories. The Sumerians put them out there first, and everyone afterward said: "Hey, these guys were on to something. A lot of this is very good. Let's use it too."

~ Wandering Scribe