A few questions about transmutation

Hey all.

I've recently being doing a Process Technician course which involves basic physics, and it's brought a few questions to mind. Hopefully someone here can answer them?

They've all come from me reading somewhere that the lead lining on the wall of a nuclear reactor can transmute to gold due to the intense heat and pressures involved. If I remember rightly, it's not pure gold that's created, but is that due to contaminants in the gold or is it because it's a different isotope of gold?

Obviously an efficient and cost effective way of turning lead to gold has been an alchemical holy grail for years, but I also wonder if there where other metals that might be easier?

For example, Gold has an atomic number (AN) of 79 and an atomic mass (AM) of 197, so would it be possible to fuse say copper atoms (AN 29 AM 63.5) with tin atoms (AN 50 AM 118.7) to create an isotope of gold that would have an AN of 79 (same as gold) but an AM of 182.2 - 14.8 less than a standard gold atom?

Finally, getting back to "worthless metal to precious metal", has it ever heard of for someone to try to achieve the same goal with, maybe, tin to silver? These are directly above their counterparts in the periodic table...

Anyhoo, thanks for reading, hope someone can help

Cheers,

Kaidan

reply to post by kai22


Turning lead to gold is completely possible. But yes, a cost effective method of doing so does not exist (at least in an "official" sense). Lead is 82 (Pb) and gold is 79 (Au). So one would have to 3 protons per atom and knock them off somehow. It's been done before, but the process is far too expensive to remotely consider it a viable method of making gold.

I know there are some ideas about turning other lesser metals into precious metals, like silver, but I will have to do more reading.

We do know, though, that other things are possible. For instance, synthetically creating diamonds that have all of the same attributes as mined diamonds.

Transmutation and alchemy, by its very nature, is a mysterious thing that takes a lot of studying and time to really get a grip on what it all means. In other words, one must transmute the Self before one can transmute gold, otherwise it's a completely fruitless venture.

Manly P. Hall has a few great lectures involving alchemy, particularly esoteric alchemy, if you're interested.

reply to post by kai22


If you think the aim of Alchemy is turning lead into gold, you have some study to do. If the red stuff you made in the Alchemy lab turns lead into gold, it is safe to ingest and then the phun really starts.

And coincidentally, Holy Grail = San Greal = sangreal = royal blood, that either gets you lost in crusades of riddles or maybe just refers to the red substance in the lab glass

Funnily, there is some interesting physics on the platinum group metals, elliptic deformation of large nuclei and transmutation that hints at the possibility that is wasn't all just the bad after effects of mercury vapor.

One of the worst assaults on my engineering training was seeing some really nifty experimental setups and resulting data that suggests simple measurable differences in the chemical behavioiur of metal salts during planetary eclipses.

I really dislike religion masquerading as science. Don't believe things, run the experiment. Don't assume that 'if xyz were true people would be making money from it, therefore it can't be true'. If it interests you, run the experiment. You'll learn something new, guaranteed. If only what the governing set of assumptions are.

Warning: alchemical experiments tend to be time consuming the remote viewing experiments from last weekend was simple, great entertainment and surprisingly accurate. Even more interesting was the kinds of errors that happened.

Thanks for the reply I'll definitely give the lectures a look later (popping out with the missus soon).

I did actually ask my physics tutor about it all, and it was he that suggested fusing 1 or more "smaller" elements to create gold. Then the questions would be -

Which element(s) to fuse and how?

Thanks again,

Kaidan

reply to post by asciikewl


Ancient alchemy diverged upon a road of avarice that it hasn't fully come back from. Long ago, some people thought it would be a nifty idea to try and make money from alchemy rather than having any substantial changes within themselves occur. There was also the persecution of the state against alchemists, as the state did not like the idea in the least that alchemists were running around in laboratories trying to make gold.

He who controls the gold controls the world, they say.

reply to post by asciikewl


Hi, thanks for posting

I know that transmutation wasn't the ONLY goal of alchemy, and also that "holy grail" probably wasn't the best phrase to use lol.

I've come across references to people claiming to have found profitable ways of creating gold, but don't really have much time to delve into it all, not today at least.

Don't assume that 'if xyz were true people would be making money from it, therefore it can't be true'. If it interests you, run the experiment.

Ok...... Ebay...... search...... nuclear reactor.....



Thanks again

Kaidan

reply to post by kai22


Tad early for eBay: buyecat.com...

But it seems to be on its way. Patents granted in Jan.

Originally posted by kai22
Hey all.

I've recently being doing a Process Technician course which involves basic physics, and it's brought a few questions to mind. Hopefully someone here can answer them?

They've all come from me reading somewhere that the lead lining on the wall of a nuclear reactor can transmute to gold due to the intense heat and pressures involved. If I remember rightly, it's not pure gold that's created, but is that due to contaminants in the gold or is it because it's a different isotope of gold?

Obviously an efficient and cost effective way of turning lead to gold has been an alchemical holy grail for years, but I also wonder if there where other metals that might be easier?

For example, Gold has an atomic number (AN) of 79 and an atomic mass (AM) of 197, so would it be possible to fuse say copper atoms (AN 29 AM 63.5) with tin atoms (AN 50 AM 118.7) to create an isotope of gold that would have an AN of 79 (same as gold) but an AM of 182.2 - 14.8 less than a standard gold atom?

Finally, getting back to "worthless metal to precious metal", has it ever heard of for someone to try to achieve the same goal with, maybe, tin to silver? These are directly above their counterparts in the periodic table...

Anyhoo, thanks for reading, hope someone can help

There is no high temperature or pressure in a nuclear reactor. I mean in relation to the energies at nuclear level.

The transmutation happens per neutron capture or beta decay.

en.wikipedia.org... :

Gold was synthesized from mercury by neutron bombardment in 1941, but the isotopes of gold produced were all radioactive.[3] In 1924, a Japanese physicist, Hantaro Nagaoka, accomplished the same feat.[4]

Gold can currently be manufactured in a nuclear reactor by irradiation either of platinum or mercury.

Only the mercury isotope 196Hg, which occurs with a frequency of 0.15% in natural mercury, can be converted to gold by neutron capture, and following electron capture-decay into 197Au with slow neutrons. Other mercury isotopes are converted when irradiated with slow neutrons into one another or formed mercury isotopes, which beta decay into thallium.

Using fast neutrons, the mercury isotope 198Hg, which composes 9.97% of natural mercury, can be converted by splitting off a neutron and becoming 197Hg, which then disintegrates to stable gold. This reaction, however, possesses a smaller activation cross-section and is feasible only with un-moderated reactors.

It is also possible to eject several neutrons with very high energy into the other mercury isotopes in order to form 197Hg. However such high-energy neutrons can be produced only by particle accelerators.[clarification needed].