Will you rally behind the winner??

If Bush wins, It's not gonna really personally affect me. I'll go on living my life, and I'll still support my country and everything it truly stands for no matter what.

If Kerry wins, I'll prolly give my dad a high five and say 'hoorah' or something. But then I'll go on with life. Because when I think about it, I support him now, but he'll prolly end up &(#$#$^ us over too in the long run.

Finally, If Badnarik ends up pulling a good sum of votes, I'll really be happy, becuase it'll show the rest of the voting public that there's Libertarians out there, and then maybe they'll get to know what they stand for more.

So what everyone seems to be saying is that in essence, there is no point even bothering to have an election. The system has failed since the person you like might not get elected. So many of you have just stated that no matter who is elected, you won't support them or even wish them well.

And people wonder why kids today act like a bunch of spoiled, self-serving brats? Read people's responses on this thread and many others and see their refusal to follow who the President is. What are they teaching their children? That if you don't get your way you don't have to participate? Yes, we are free to disagree with the policies of the President but some people go too far with their childish refusal to even acknowledge a man as the President of our Country.

If you are going to refuse to accept the elected President, what is stopping your child from refusing to respect and accept their teacher? Are you going to allow your child to switch teachers every time a teacher does something your child doesn't like? Will you just home school your child so that your child doesn't have to deal with someone? What happens when your child decides they don't like YOUR policies and decide to no longer acknowledge YOU as their parent? Is that acceptable? I don't think so, but that's the message that some of you are sending to your children.

Personally I think it's sad that society has gotten to this point and it is not just limited to peoples views of the President.

Jemison

Tomcat and others like him who express that they would support whomever is elected regardless, ignore a basic tenant of our democracy; the right of dissent. It is dissent that forces change, and change is what drives cultural, social, industrial, economic, and ethical positive advancement.

I deny the legitimacy of our current president. Should he win this time, without the questionable recounts, etc., I may accept the outcome as legitimate, but I will NOT support him.

I'm not looking for an argument here, if you mindless sheep wish to follow blindly, whomever you are told to follow, fine. Don't tell me whom I must support because I will fight you to the death for the right to make-up my own mind. I don't care much for Kerry either. and like Marge, I will be observing carefully. Blind obedience, thoughtlessly following any platform is what has gotten us in the polarized position that we are in now. Poor education/under-education is why the populace is polarized.

People by nature are short-term thinkers. It is a "higher" value to think into the future. If all you care about is emmassing a personal fortune for yourself and maybe even your family, than you are of the short-term ilk. If, however, you consider the repurcussions of your actions upon future generations, than you are an evolved thinker.

Many factors influance how we make choises of long vs. short-term thinking. If you are poor, hungry, and wondering where your next dollar is coming from, you may not have the levity, or so you think, to consider the future. However, should you lead a moral/ethical life, you will make the right decisions. Little reminder: Emmassing personal wealth, in and of itself is NOT a moral decision, it is merely self-serving and may or may not include ethical implications. Religions of all kinds have preached charity for mellinia, yet it is human nature to fight first for self to the exclusion of the community as a whole. It is my contention that people in general will NOT do the right thing left to themselves. People need moral guidance, whether through education, religion, government, etc. Otherwise it is the law of the jungle that rules, hardly an evolved manner.

Originally posted by Jemison
And people wonder why kids today act like a bunch of spoiled, self-serving brats? Read people's responses on this thread and many others and see their refusal to follow who the President is. What are they teaching their children? That if you don't get your way you don't have to participate? Yes, we are free to disagree with the policies of the President but some people go too far with their childish refusal to even acknowledge a man as the President of our Country.

Listen, childishness is accepting a situation you find to be distructive. Naive is NOT standing up for what you believe in and "follow who the President is" regardless of their past.

When it comes down to it, it's the people that matter.

The PEOPLE are the cause, purpose, and end result of the government. We are their masters, and as such we can chose to disavow them as a spokes person for us.

You wonder why others hate all Americans? It's simple. People allow themselves to get spoken for by an ill-equiped government.

If you are going to refuse to accept the elected President, what is stopping your child from refusing to respect and accept their teacher? Are you going to allow your child to switch teachers every time a teacher does something your child doesn't like? Will you just home school your child so that your child doesn't have to deal with someone? What happens when your child decides they don't like YOUR policies and decide to no longer acknowledge YOU as their parent? Is that acceptable? I don't think so, but that's the message that some of you are sending to your children.

I will teach my children to stand up for what they believe in. They do not get a choice in my parenting, but they DO have a choice in their education, as do I. If they deem a teacher to be distructive to them and other students, I will certainly look into it.

Should the "accept" a teacher that teaches them incorrectly, or teaches them hate or other such unpleasant things? No, and nor will I.

Personally I think it's sad that society has gotten to this point and it is not just limited to peoples views of the President.

Jemison

What I think is sad, is people's acceptance of a corrupt system that puts forth terrible leaders. It's beacuse we have not FORCED them to provide candidates that are worth it, made the media honest, stood up to the government that WE are supposed to run.

Exactly, Jemison. That is an excellent point about children. I guess we see where they get these attitudes from. People have forgotten how to be Americans and have forgotten that sometimes for the good of the country as a whole, you have to put aside your pride and ego and do what it takes to get things done, even if it means getting behind a leader you don't like and probably don't agree with. People are so worried about if they won or lost that they lose sight of why there is a contest in the first place.

Let me say again that if John Kerry is elected, even though I think he is a very bad choice for the job and I couldn't be more opposed to his views, I will wish him the best, send him positive vibes and root for him to do a good job as our President for the next four years. I believe that to do any less would be unpatriotic, counter productive and not what our country is about or how it was designed to work.

Originally posted by Jemison

If you are going to refuse to accept the elected President, what is stopping your child from refusing to respect and accept their teacher?

A spanking for starters. If that doesnt work, I start throwing favorite toys in the garbage. If that doesnt work, I make her throw a favorite toy in the garbage. I have never had to go farther than that.


[qoute] Will you just home school your child so that your child doesn't have to deal with someone?

Jemison


Actually, I home school my daughter so she doesnt have to deal with the crappy public babysitting, I mean school system. If you dont pay the teachers a respectable salary, they will teach at a lower level of education. Our teachers are poor and as a result, so is our public education system.

People are divided on this election not because of American values, but because half of us dont respect or believe in the current president. I can not respect a man who uses his power to benifit his friends. i cannot believe in a president who has lied to us about a major war. I cannot stand behind a man who signs 486 billion dollar tax cuts out of the public eye so it wont be questioned.

John Kerry has a chance to bring respect and dignity back to the presidential post. He is fresh and could give the US the boost in the world view that we so desprately need. Bush has to much of an uphill battle to regain my respect. If Bush gets elected, and he turns around his administration around, I will reconsider my position, but initially, there will be no support from me for Bush if re-election occours.

Other than that, How've ya been?

[edit on 10/31/04 by Kidfinger]

Jemison,
A fine example for you: My wife's best friend tells this story; Her son, 9 yr, old Evan was asked by his teacher whom he thought he would vote for given the opportunity. He replied that he would vote for Senator Kerry. The teacher then responded: "Why? He kills babies!"

Naturally, the mother went to the school principal to complain and to demand an appology. Now, should the child have simply shut-up and accepted this "respected" learned teachers reprimand quietly? I think not. Respect is EARNED and not given lightly.

'nuf said.

It is my contention that people in general will NOT do the right thing left to themselves. People need moral guidance, whether through education, religion, government, etc. Otherwise it is the law of the jungle that rules, hardly an evolved manner.

I agree and disagree. I don't think that it should be up to the Government to give people moral guidance. I think that begins at home. Society used to be one in which family helped family and entire neighborhoods stood together to help one another. Now people rely less on family and neighbors and more on Government. We need to get back to a society where we, as individuals, make a difference in someone's life, not expect the Government to do it.

I don't think people should follow anyone blindly and be 'sheeple'. But people shouldn't regress to the mindset of a spoiled 6 year old when they disagree with someones policy. Find a productive way to vent your frustration. Get involved, start a charitable organization, run for office yourself. Do something other than whine. It will make you feel better and it will help others who feel the same way find an outlet for their frustration.

You have every right to voice your beliefs but do you really think that name calling and refusing to accept the reality of the situation is the best way to do it?

Jemison

Well, to be perfectly honest:

While the basic premise behind a democratic society is good, and certainly better than some of the socialist regimes out there *cough* DNC *cough*,

I personally do not believe in democracy as a system of government. It fails, inevitably. Why? Because a democratic society as a whole tends to follow long term trends of mob rule and descent into social chaos, IMHO. Just look at where we are now. The devisiveness, the overburdened and tedious social programs, the loss of freedom of expression, thanks to both conservative acts such as the Patriot Act, and liberal acts such as the inane and strangling mantra of 'political correctness'. A democratic society inevitably falls into ruin.

I personally believe in the system of monarchy. You should all make me king.

I find it amusing and troubling how a lot of people on here figure that a guy who's already rich and only figures to have a job for 4 years has anything but good intentions for America. As if his agenda is to fatten his wallet more or rule the world, that doesn't make sense. Sure, mistakes can be made, and perhaps things don't work out the way they planned, but I believe all of our presidents had nothing but good intentions for us. I think if any one of us were elected president today, we'd screw everything up thinking we know what's best, and everybody on here would be talking smack about us and how evil we are. YES, I'll support either and hope they have a great supporting cast. If they suck, I'll vote for someone else the next time.

Bow down people. Bow down more than you already have an accept the bogus election of bogus candidates.

These guys are about the biggest damagers of the country I can think of outside of known extremeists.

We can HOPE they do a good job. We can send them good vibes all day long, but it will do no good.

What WILL do good is to stop lying down on the job and speak out against the rediculous election we are having, the subpar candidates with baseless and meaningless platforms.

Children (defined for this sake as those under the age of 18 and still in Highschool or lesser) don't have the right to say "f you teach, im doing what i want" because they have no rights to determine if they are in school or not. They arent allowed to vote, own guns, buy alcohol, serve jury duty, etc. They simply dont have all the rights an adult has, one of which is the right to vote. In my book when you can vote you also have every right to say "f the prez, i dont like him one bit" because your able to backup your attitude with an appropriate vote next election. If people all backed the president because he was the president, it would evolve into a dictatorship because nobody would vote otherwise.

Bow down people. Bow down more than you already have an accept the bogus election of bogus candidates.

So what exactly is it that you have done over the last 4 years to change things? And if Bush is reelected what will you do over the next 4 years to try to change things?

Freedom of speech is fine and is your right, but if all you are going to do is whine, bitch and complain, what's the point? Don't just open your mouth, DO something!

Jemison

I do "do" things. Not as much as I'd like but I still make some time to.

Working for the Libertarians is great, but I like to help outside of politics too. I really just wish people would take it seriously like a very few do. It's not so much to win, because as we see now it isn't the stronger message that is used, but the stronger liars wins.