A New Take at Existence

Originally posted by Erich94
reply to post by Wang Tang

 

It is not that I do not exist at all, it is that I exist merely as a possibility. I wouldn't necessarily have to prove that you do not exist either, because to us, this is existence. What I am saying is, our existence isn't quite what we make it out to be.

well honestly i think its pointless to even state this because a. we are alive and b. of course we know of the possibility and are a living possibility at the same time. its kinda self refuting to me. now what do YOU mean our exsistince isn't quite what we make it out to be because honestly i dont think anyone has truly grasp this on earth "this time round"

Awesome thread, Erich. This is a concept that I've given some thought in the past but couldn't find anyone to discuss my thoughts with, so I'm a bit excited to jump into this conversation.

Originally posted by Erich94
So modern science states that we exist in the third dimension. It is a basic belief. We are not a single line connected by 2 points, therefore we are not 1D, we are not a linear plane with no depth, not 2D. But we believe we are 3D. We have depth along with length and width. This is three dimensions. But beyond that, there is more.

According to popular theory there are 10 dimensional levels of existence. This 10th dimension is comprised of every possibility that could ever occur. Anything that could ever possibly happen, is happening or will happen in this dimension. My belief is that this is the 10th dimension. We exist in this dimension. I am saying this because how can we exist in the third dimension alone with the absence of possibility. Yes we are presently observing everything in 3 spatial dimensions but there is possibility here in the 10th dimension which is what gives rise to our being and everything that we currently know.

We observe 3 spatial dimensions, but I think our perspective resides in the 4th.

I have tried to define the 10 dimensions but I've only been able to define up to the 5th with some degree of confidence.

1: Linear: As you mentioned in your OP, the first spatial dimension is a line. Along an infinite line there lies an infinite number of points. By selecting two points along a line we can measure length between them.

2: Planar: By taking our 1-dimensional line and multiplying it along another 1-dimensional line we get a 2-dimensional plane. The line now has an infinite number of 1 dimensional lines intersecting it at 90 degrees, forming a grid-like plane. On this plane we can measure both length and width and create basic geometric forms.

3: Space: matrix of planes. Now we take our 2-d plane and multiply it along another 1-d line to create 3-d space, and we can measure length, width and depth.

4: Time: Now things start to get more abstract. With our limited perception, multiplying 3-d space along another 1-d line would seem to only cause an infinitely overlapping 3-d dimension. Well, this is exactly the case. The 4th dimension is the realm of time, where 3-d objects are free to move within 3-d space. This dimension is similar to the 1st dimension in that time follows a linear course. Select 2 points on the time line and you have a length of time, a "beginning" and an "end".

5: Probability: When we take a 4-d time line and multiply it along yet another 1-d line, we get an infinite number of potential time lines. It is a set of possible courses that a 4-d time line could take. The "width" dimension represents the divergence of possibilities; the further apart one time line is from another, the more their 3-d space configurations will differ as time progresses.

Now, according to my knowledge, every higher dimension can see down onto the lower dimensions, which is why we know that a line is 1D and a linear plane is 2D. If we exist in the 10th dimension why cant we physically view time or any of the other following 5 dimensions between. Because in the state of possibility that we are currently experiencing this is all that there is. This is what is currently existing within the realm of possibility.

This is the reason I believe we reside in the 4th; we can percieve the 3 spatial dimensions but we are stuck on a single time line, and we can't percieve this time line with the same clarity that we can when we look at a 3-d object like a coffee mug (first thing that came to mind as it's sitting right beside me). A moment before writing the previous sentence I had considered revising my post to say we reside in the 5th dimension, since our actions can affect the course of our time line. However, we cannot percieve the whole 4th dimensional time line, we are merely stuck on a single point riding that line.

Furthermore, how much control over the time line do we really have? We are all at the mercy of the choices of every other conscious entity and the randomness of other chaotic elements. It may be that we are all the victims of causality and that our "choices" are really just the product of events which have preceded us.

Tell me if this makes any sense to you. Basically the picture explains any action has multiple probabilities, and these separate courses of action all branch into separate, parallel and mirror universes. OBJ B and C are in mirror universes, while both of these are in parallel universes with OBJ D.

I'll go along and say maybe these branching universes represent the 5th dimension. So our universe contains 4 dimensions (if we accept time as the 4th dimension) and the multiverse contains 5 dimensions.

reply to post by Wang Tang


I completely understand where you are coming from.





These are some videos I found interesting on the subject of dimensions, and what I was referring to as the 10th dimension is what is described at the end of the second video.

reply to post by Glass


I read your comment and I have to say that you have a very well thought out hypothesis. In regards to the fourth dimension, what if it is not actually time, but consciousness? Consciousness is the 4th dimension and that is how we can view the 3rd dimension. Our body is just a tool to do so. Just a thought on that, I appreciate your comments everyone! I'm glad to be able to discuss this concept with some of you that take pride in further understanding our true nature.

Originally posted by GRS1234

Originally posted by Erich94
reply to post by Wang Tang

 

It is not that I do not exist at all, it is that I exist merely as a possibility. I wouldn't necessarily have to prove that you do not exist either, because to us, this is existence. What I am saying is, our existence isn't quite what we make it out to be.

well honestly i think its pointless to even state this because a. we are alive and b. of course we know of the possibility and are a living possibility at the same time. its kinda self refuting to me. now what do YOU mean our exsistince isn't quite what we make it out to be because honestly i dont think anyone has truly grasp this on earth "this time round"

edit on 19-2-2013 by GRS1234 because: (no reason given)

In a way, yes, it is pointless. But honestly I feel that no matter what scenario you take in debunking realities deepest secrets, it will all be pointless in the end. Even if we can somehow know that our reality isn't truly real, does this make a difference? Because to us, the observer, what we observe is what there is.

Though, what I'm also trying to say is this, maybe in the event of coming to terms with the fact that our reality isn't so "real" we might be able to develop some ability to change our reality, through consciousness or technology, whatever there ends up being. Maybe if we are not bound by the concreteness of existence mentally we can open up to new ideas and concepts that can allow us to exist in a much different way than we have been.

Originally posted by Erich94

According to popular theory there are 10 dimensional levels of existence.

oops....

If your theory is based on unprovable philosophical conjecture, then you're lost before you even start. Try basing your notion on something that can be proven. Then, even if your theory is yet to be proven, at least you're not trying to build something on vapor. No one has any evidence of 10 dimensions. Not even an actual logical argument that holds together in terms of inference associated with any form of existential requirement being met by the existence of more than 4 dimensions (the fourth, being the chain of causation that establishes ramification and contextual precedence - and thereby natural laws and existential predilections). That 10 dimensions (the 10th, where all possibilities are fully expressed) "theory" is just another version of the seven levels of heaven, and no more than another religionists' effort to seize control of the most adventurous edges of "scientific" theory and derail the push for rational thought concerning reality in the 21st century.

Actually, it's not your fault. I blame the mainstream press and the producers of pretty much everything on the Discovery Channel for allowing this idiocy to persist as "common knowledge" when it's anything but knowledge... common or otherwise.

reply to post by NorEaster


I completely understand what you are saying. I mean, yes, there is no evidence to necessarily support this claim as true but there is nothing that can really prove it wrong either.

I am aware that string theory has not been proven to be true, but it is a common theory among physicists and philosophers. The 10th dimension in string theory is the one that gives rise to all of the dimensions or "strings" beneath it.

A mathematical theory for describing the properties of fundamental particles, which represents the particles as one-dimensional string-like objects, which exist in the normal four dimensions of space-time plus additional dimensions, the total dimensions being ten, eleven, or twenty-six depending on the version of the theory. The properties of fundamental particles in string theory and their manner of interaction with each other depend upon the modes of vibration of the strings

and in the description of the 10th dimension David Lewis says In string theory physics tell us that superstrings vibrating in the 10th dimension are what create the subatomic particles which make up our universe and all the other possible universes as well. In other words all possible universes are contained within the tenth dimension.



The 0th dimension is the dot. You don't need any numbers to identify its position.

The first dimension is the line. You need two dots to define a line. Any other dot on that line can be located on that line using one real number that will give the distance of the third dot to the first dot using the distance of your first two dots as the unit. So on a ruler your first two dots can be the 0 and the 1cm dot. Every other dot is at some cm length from the 0.

the second dimension is the plane. You need two numbers to identify a point on a plane. Usually called the x and the y axis. On a plane you can find the distance between two points by drawing a line that does not go through your reference dot.

space is the third dimension. You need three numbers to determine the distance of an object in space. These are usually called the x,y and z axes. space time is the fourth dimension: it requires four numbers to place a dot in space-time. 3 for the spacial position, and one for the time.

The four dimensional world we live in, seen from the beginning of the universe to the end of the universe, is the actual world we live in.

The 5th dimension is the first dimension in which the notion of possible worlds starts needing to be used. Imagine some possible world a little different from this one (maybe one where you did not read this blog). This possible world will give you a unit of similarity measurement with which to compare the distance of other possible worlds to the actual one.

The 6th dimension will give you a plane of possible worlds. You can find out the similarity distance of two possible worlds from each other without having to go through the actual one. The 6 dimensions allow us to compare and position all the possible worlds that start with the same initial conditions (the big bang) as this one.

The 7th dimension will give you access to the possible worlds that start with different initial conditions (big bang). A point in the 7th dimension consists of all the possible worlds that start with the same initial big bang and lead to all the possible endings that such an initial condition can lead to.

The 8th dimensions gives us again a plane of such complete possible universe histories, which in the video they call infinity. We can there compare two such infinities without necessarily having to take ours into account.

With the 9th dimension we can compare all the possible universes histories starting with all the different possible laws of physics and initial conditions.

The Tenth dimension is the point in which everything possible and imaginable is covered. Since we can't imagine any further, we have to stop here.

Quantum physics also informs us that the sub atomic particles that make up our observable "universe" are collapsed from waves of probability simply be the act of observation. This gives rise to the possibility that everything we experience is a collapsed probability. Meaning if we can observe one probability out of a multitude, we could also observe these other possibilities. Since we can do this, this means that we have to be in the 10th dimension.

We can observe one course of action, it doesn't necessarily follow that we can observe all courses of action. The only course of action we can observe is our own, and we are limited by this information. We can speculate what the behavior of sub atomic particles means, but we are still limited by our inability to observe alternate courses of action. Since we are limited by our perception we cannot percieve beyond the 4th dimension, we may only speculate.

reply to post by Wang Tang


I don't find that to be necessarily true. I personally believe that dreams are our connections to our other "selfs" located outside of this current reality. If you think about it, it makes sense. How many times have you had a dream about yourself doing something that was so amazing that it would be impossible in this realm? Or had dreams witnessing yourself doing things in an unfamiliar place with unfamiliar people, but yet you know that you know these places or people even though they are unfamiliar to you directly.

reply to post by Wang Tang


Actually...since we are capable of seeing Light or Photons which are a Quantum Particle/Wave Form as well as being able to see Light Frequency thus the Photons behaving as a Wave and thus our perception of color...we ARE capable of percieving more than just 4-D.

Matter cannot exist in anything less than a Minimum of 10 or 11 Dimensional state.

As far as a Multiverse and Quantum Mechanics...it is HIGHLY probable that our Universal Reality which is but ONE within our specific Group of Infinite Groups with each of these groups having their own Natural Laws as all Groups are contained within the Multivese.

Split Infinity

As skeptical as I usually am, I will concede that there may be some special connection between our dreams and our universe that modern science and philosophy can't explain. I've simply heard too many people talk about this connection to just discard it as wishful thinking. That dreams are a connection to our past selves is a fairly widespread belief from what I have heard.

With that said I will not concede that this special dream connection lets us make any more conclusions as to the nature of our universe. As far as I'm concerned the existence of this connection only proves the existence of this connection, and nothing else. If we can't explain this connection scientifically, I don't think it's appropriate to draw scientific conclusions from it.

Originally posted by Erich94
reply to post by fiftyfifty

 

I understand what you are saying about the whole near death experience thing, but I think you might be a bit mixed up in what dimensions are. If you died in this dimension, you wouldn't then continue to exist in another dimension, you could potentially continue existing in the same dimension, but under a different set of circumstances, since the 10th dimension encompasses all possible realities.

You speak about dimensions as if they are realities. They are only perceptions of One reality. The first dimension, like the 3rd, is not a reality, it's a perception of reality. So there is no such thing as existing IN a perception, nor can you be born in it, or die out of it. It's not a reality . A dimension is a definition of a perception only.

''I used to read the Psalms and the Holy Qu'ran, now I only read the birds and bees''

The dimensional talk is too speculative for me, so I'd like to present something simple that will appear to everyone's common sense. The mathematics of the golden ratio are found consistently throughout nature, embedded within everything.

Lets seriously consider, if the universe is actually some random occurrence, what is the probability that the mathematical ratios would arrange themselves in such a consistent manner? I don't need to spell out for everyone what this is evidence of. Also, confirming what you said, that we exist as part of the void, this is true, and we do represent possibilities, mainly the capability of following lies or truth.

reply to post by Kapablanka


Even if the probability that everything came about in this particular manner may be extremely small, it's still there, and that means that at some point or another it WILL happen.

On lies and truth I don't really believe that those are necessarily a basis for our existence. Seeing as how lies and truth are not objective and only exist in the our brains I don't see how they can have any impact on the universe(s).

reply to post by Erich94

Originally posted by Erich94
reply to post by Kapablanka

 

Even if the probability that everything came about in this particular manner may be extremely small, it's still there, and that means that at some point or another it WILL happen.

On lies and truth I don't really believe that those are necessarily a basis for our existence. Seeing as how lies and truth are not objective and only exist in the our brains I don't see how they can have any impact on the universe(s).

A lie in the 4th dimension is truth in one of the higher dimensions. If I were to say I only have one leg, that would be a lie, since currently in this time line I have both my legs, but if I were to backtrack along this timeline to a point in time where I nearly avoided an accident, and branched off in the 5th dimension to a timeline where I had lost my leg, the statement that I only have one leg would be true.

I'm starting to believe your statement that consciousness actually resides in the 10th dimension. Our senses are limited to the 4th dimension because what we define as senses are 4th dimensional perceptions, but this simple thought exercise has shown that we can think along the 5th dimension. Also, since the 6th dimension is simply an expansion of the 5th to allow for more branching timelines, we can think along the 6th dimension as well. Our ability to imagine other universes is evidenced by works of fiction such as science fiction and fantasy...the only limit to what we can imagine would be the 10th dimension, which ironically is a dimension which transcends all limitations.

Originally posted by Erich94
The 10th dimension in string theory is the one that gives rise to all of the dimensions or "strings" beneath it.

Is there allowance for NULL dimension, or for Absolute dimension?