Fossilized Spines and Vertebrae of Big Creatures in Curiosity Sol 109!

I am going to play devil's advocate again in this thread and put out this scenario.

You are a scientist, in a space suit, on Mars, and you are walking through the same crater that the Curiosity rover is in. Your job is to search out anomalies that may help prove that there was once life on Mars.
You stumble near this outcropping of what appear to be bones, just like the rover has.
Now, do you go over to it to get a better look, or do you just keep on walking , like it was not important?

This, to me, is really what it boils down to. I cannot imagine ignoring this object, even if it IS a pile of rocks.
If they do not task this rover to go over there and get a better look, then there is something really wrong with the pursuit of science here, and that bothers me greatly.

Originally posted by charlyv
Now, do you go over to it to get a better look

Depends, would I have a psychotic robot chasing after me and little bugs trying to infiltrate my suit all while trying to find an abandoned Russian probe in a desperate attempt to contact the mother ship? If the answer is no to those questions then yes I would stop and have a better look.

further proof on what we know already. mars was like earth once then something happened. this just confirms it for the upteenth time. i mean we already know theres microbial life form fossils in the soil. how much more proof do we need. another example is the repeated rover trips to mars when we knew by the 1970's that there is water on mars. typically you keep spending money to proove the same old thing. its frustrating how nasa operates when it could have dedicated money spent to 'further proove' previously proven scientific facts to research and developement for better ways to get to space.

Originally posted by ramacharaka
reply to post by Indigo5

 

I found another martian skeleton. On this photo the skeleton of martian creature is represented in the red circumference:

That's also an intersting shape. Good find, ramascharaka! As said, if it were just that one piece or a few others, it could more easily be explained away with ventifacts, or erosional features in general. But the fact that not one of the numerous and interesting artifacts we see made NASA/JPL have a closer look at those, speaks for itself, IMHO.

In this particular case (image above), I don't think were looking at the remains of bones. But I'm not going to elaborate on that here. Honestly, I also believe NASA/JPL are in posession of detailed, high resolution close-up images of most of the interesting features and artifcats referenced in this forum. But we don't have access to all of them, for a very good reason. Unfortunately, I don't have any proof for my claim at this stage. But I'm sure some official institution (and I'm not talking about NASA/JPL) will shed some light on that once they found a 'good story' to tell in the light of all the intriguing things we see here at Gale Crater ...

reply to post by ArMaP


Arken, please allow me to be quickly off topic here, but this is something a must say:

ArMaP, I'd like to congratulate you for the way you are moderating this thread (and the whole forum actually)!!!

Despite your personal points of view you are considering both sides of the fence equally and most respectfully. You are a great example for many around of someone really open minded and up to further consideration beyond personal beliefs. We are witnessing here a neutral 'maestro' giving valuable data "for the thread sake".

I feel you're conducting this thread like a Symphony. Thank you very much! or.... Muito obrigado!

Originally posted by LordAdef
reply to post by ArMaP

 

Arken, please allow me to be quickly off topic here, but this is something a must say:

ArMaP, I'd like to congratulate you for the way you are moderating this thread (and the whole forum actually)!!!

Despite your personal points of view you are considering both sides of the fence equally and most respectfully. You are a great example for many around of someone really open minded and up to further consideration beyond personal beliefs. We are witnessing here a neutral 'maestro' giving valuable data "for the thread sake".

I feel you're conducting this thread like a Symphony. Thank you very much!

Are you snooping for bonus points or something?

I must admit though, ArMaP very good job sir, you are a credit to the mods and I also share LordAdefs sentiments, there's a few mods on here who could learn a lot from you

Also, just to add another bit on here, I listened to ATS live last night discussing this and I feel they've got it all wrong, the anomalies of what look like ancient structures are way more believable (for want of a better word) than the "fossils", although I admit that due to the physical evidence we can't say for sure either way what they are.

The pareidola suggestion I find to be insulting when looking at these threads:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There's just no way in my mind that the objects in these pictures are natural and I didn't even have to stare at these objects for long to see what they were

Originally posted by LordAdef
reply to post by ArMaP

 

Arken, please allow me to be quickly off topic here, but this is something a must say:

ArMaP, I'd like to congratulate you for the way you are moderating this thread (and the whole forum actually)!!!

Despite your personal points of view you are considering both sides of the fence equally and most respectfully. You are a great example for many around of someone really open minded and up to further consideration beyond personal beliefs. We are witnessing here a neutral 'maestro' giving valuable data "for the thread sake".

I feel you're conducting this thread like a Symphony. Thank you very much! or.... Muito obrigado!

edit on 24-2-2013 by LordAdef because: (no reason given)

Agreed!!

Applause for ArMaP and other Mods!

reply to post by Char-Lee


Jesus no, only the first paragraph was in relation or response to your post. I then went off on a wee rant after that, kinda directed that anyone that would listen. So sorry for any confusion lad

reply to post by LordAdef
l,
Lol but i think arken and armap are one and the same person.

I think we would need a much more sophisticated robot to properly excavate these interesting specimens to determine if they are rocks or foscilized bones. At this point all we can do is take pictures and speculate.

Somewhere on the site is a thread in which I participated way back when where there is a link, I might have posted, that speculated that Mars ejected its core, and that before this happened, Mars was about the same size as the Earth, and at this time Mars also had its atmosphere stripped. Who ever created that site had done a lot of work, and put together a lot of evidence. It was an amazing site.

Anyone remember that thread?

Originally posted by OnionHead
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

Jesus no, only the first paragraph was in relation or response to your post. I then went off on a wee rant after that, kinda directed that anyone that would listen. So sorry for any confusion lad

Ok got yah...again not a dude and not a lad...

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ArMaP

 

Shells sure. Whole skeletons? no.

I have seen mention of many many large animal fossils found on the surface in various places. there are also petrified bones and such.

This one area

an average of about 5 animal fossils exposed to view on the surface per square mile. Broom writes: "For every fossil that is exposed to view there must be 1,000 hidden by dust and talus. ... there would be in the Karroo [Karoo], if the wind-blown sand and dust could be removed, 200,000,000 fossil animals exposed to view."

www.religioustolerance.org...

Bones and tusks of modern elephants disintegrate rapidly on the surface of the ground, and are completely destroyed by exposure to the elements in a few years. Burial by only a few inches of soil helps preserve them for a much longer time. Recent tests show that bones of related proboscideans, the mammoths, which have been in the deep freeze of the permafrost of Alaska for hundreds or thousands of years have not changed much chemically although they are now tan and brown instead of white as they originally were.

Whenever large bones of mastodons (or any other fossil animals) are found on or near the surface of the ground specialists should be called at once to preserve and collect them.

ucnj.org...

Originally posted by ArMaP

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection
Lol but i think arken and armap are one and the same person.

We're not, we only share the same two first letters of our ATS name.

We are not even from the same country.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Not at all.
Me and the good ArMaP, usually, are never agreed on the topic.

And we are not from the same country.

Notice the location: ArMaP-Portugal vs. Arken-Hellas Basin

Originally posted by Arken

Originally posted by ArMaP

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection
Lol but i think arken and armap are one and the same person.

We're not, we only share the same two first letters of our ATS name.

We are not even from the same country.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Not at all.
Me and the good ArMaP, usually, are never agreed on the topic.

And we are not from the same country.

Notice the location: ArMaP-Portugal vs. Arken-Hellas Basin

It all becomes clear, next time you return to earth mate bring us some samples of these artifacts

I truly believe there is a lot more to Mars than most people would like to admit and/or believe.

So, for all you critics and debunkers...” do you believe there is life in our galaxy that may or may not be more intelligent than our own”? If you say yes, how can you easily say there isn’t anything on Mars that would indicate life? Is it because NASA told you so, or are you scared and in denial that maybe there is something out there other than us?

If you are scared, than that’s ok! It’s quite the mouthful to take in.

Originally posted by Propulsion
So, for all you critics and debunkers...” do you believe there is life in our galaxy that may or may not be more intelligent than our own”?

Yes, I do.

If you say yes, how can you easily say there isn’t anything on Mars that would indicate life?

That's just it. I can't. However, given the chemical composition of Mars, what I don't expect is creatures that look even vaguely Earth-like. If there had been large lifeforms, then I would expect that Mars would still have the equivalent of bacteria or simple life forms ("extremophiles" they're called) long after the big ones had died off.

So far, we haven't seen any.

Is it because NASA told you so, or are you scared and in denial that maybe there is something out there other than us?

If you are scared, than that’s ok! It’s quite the mouthful to take in

I seriously doubt any debunkers are scared of aliens.

It boils down to "evidence."

It can be very hard to tell the difference between "fossils" and "funky rocks" -- and I'm speaking as someone who's done dinosaur digs and who works preparing fossils (dinosaurs, in fact.) Ancient bones eroding from a landscape don't look as nice as that "vertebra" UNLESS there was a recent catastrophe (earthquake, flood, etc) that suddenly stripped the soil off the bones and left them bare.

The material from the Woodbine formation in Arlington, for example, is buried beneath a lot of soil and when it's exposed, it's just a white crumbly mess that you have to stabilize with Butvar glue. Skeletons like Jurassic Park or the one from Star Wars just don't look like that in real life. So a skeleton that had been fossilized, buried in rock, and then exposed to the wind and sand is NOT going to look like much of anything above ground. Below ground, yes. Above it, no. The sands will sand blast it to pieces.

And frankly, we don't know how big the thing is or what the color is.

Secondly, in this case, the post that announced "I ran this by a paleontologist" gave a response that was VERY out of character for a paleontologist (at least, it'd be out of character for the dozen or so that I know.)

So I see "evidence that doesn't fit what I know about bones and erosion" and "evidence that is demanding that we believe one interpretation" and "some very peculiar and out-of-character responses from an alleged professional."

I'd dearly love to meet some aliens and I would totally be all over an alien life form. But I want it to be a REAL alien and not wishful thinking -- so I want a real expert (instead of an enthusiastic novice) pointing out anomalies (a "real expert" to me would be someone who had done field work in paleo or archaeo and who knew chemistry, rock formations, and anatomy.)

Hello!

This is my first ever post here. I´ve been lurking for a while, and believe this is a good time to reply.

I have sent (as should YOU) the unaltered pics from Gale Crater to the Geology Ass. and to the Archeology Ass.
in my country. I will keep myself and the people involved anonymous.

Today i got my answers from both!! Now hear this:

The Geology Ass. forwarded my request to the Archeology Ass. with a question as to what it was...
So the "rock-dudes/dudettes" didn´t know what it was and sent it to the "bone-dudes/dudettes".

One of them Dr. Prof. NN , thought it looked like Vertebrae, but because of unknown scale, he thought they could be anything.
He then forwarded it to a friend (fossil-hunter) asking his opinion. He also thought they looked like Vertebrae, BUT because of unknown scale... it could be anything...

They were all unaware of the location of the Rocks/Bones...

So... obviously they LOOK like Vertebrae, and not like stones... but they CAN be just strange stones..

Does anyone know the scale???

Has anyone of YOU sent the ORIGINAL photos to your closest Stone expert, Bone expert??? You should.

I will try to send NASA an e-mail requesting the full resolution photos. Thanks.

im kind of tired of this coloring book game with the mars pictures.
any of us can just take them into photoshop and highlight them in certain ways.

And you guys always ignore erosion and the extreme temperature cycles/ dust storms that bones would not even fossils would survive out in the open like that sorry.