I'm a felon, I've served my time...can I have my rights back please?

reply to post by Hopechest

I'm sure your a wonderful person and just made a mistake but mistakes have consequences and you need to realize this. If you get your rights back who's to say you won't act out again in the future? I mean, you have in the past.

A child makes a mistake:

Mother: you will receive eternal punishment because I can never trust you again. You did it once so you might do it again.

Does that sound like solid logic to you? Do you think such an approach would encourage constructive and positive growth in the child?

Children, and all people, should be eventually forgiven for their mistakes. This person has already spent a good fraction of his life confined to a small cement cell as a punishment.

Is there no possible way you see that he may repay his debt to society? Don't you think at some point he should deserves his rights as a human being given back to him?

How do you even know his punishment was fair in the first place? Did you know America has the highest number of incarcerated citizens out of any other nation in the world?

Did you know that a vast portion of those incarcerated are in prison for victimless crimes? It seems many people in this thread agree with you post. ATS is going downhill at breakneck speeds lately.

Originally posted by Hopechest

Such as... should the government be aloud to create a crime and then by proxy constitutionally limit the perpetrator of the crime that they create?

Absolutely.

The government creates crimes and punishments according to what society wants. In theory anyways but it works for our purpose.

The government did make you aware of both the crime and the punishment and you chose to go ahead and commit the act. They did not force you to.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Obvious out of touch middle class person is obvious. Try living in the real world, in which situations arise where you have no choice but to commit such acts.

It's easy for you people living in your nice houses in your nice neighborhoods where there is no risk to say this. If you had friends who've been stabbed, beaten to death, etc then you might have a better understanding of why, sometimes, violence is necessary when confronted with violence or threat of violence.

It just shows again how arse-backwards Americans are. Shooting people dead = good and legal, turning to any other type of violence = unacceptable.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by AnonyWarp

 

i broke someone arm in self defense, does it make me a monster or a terrible person, do i need to stay my whole life behind bars and never get any rights back ?

Were you convicted by a jury of your peers of a felony?

NOPE!

Do you see a difference? It's not against the law to defend yourself.

Yes IT IS!

There are millions of people in the world who've been tried and convicted of a violent crime, despite acting in self defence. The court system is not infallible and neither is the law itself just, just because it is a law.

Defending yourself is absolutely against the law, unless you're in America and shooting a homeless person who's trying to rob a banana from your fruit bowl.

Don't they have Pardons where you are?

Here, in Canada, if you get a pardon no-one can use your criminal history against you, it doesn't even show up in background checks. I'm not sure about contacting the "victim", but I would imagine that it also wouldn't matter if you talked to them or not.

Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by dusty1

 

I hit someone once while i was drinking, there was already an ongoing battle between two other people. Lets just say that it was an oddball case. There was alchohol involved and it had an overall influence over the entire situation on all sides.

I don't believe that, you don't get a felony conviction and 6 months for that. Unless by "once" you mean repeatedly and/or in between "I hit someone " and "once" you left out "with my car" or with something else.
I do not empathize with you at all, you are a violent offender and you shouldn't have a gun.

And yes the constitution does allow this

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.[

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Hopechest

 

I'm sure your a wonderful person and just made a mistake but mistakes have consequences and you need to realize this. If you get your rights back who's to say you won't act out again in the future? I mean, you have in the past.

A child makes a mistake:

Mother: you will receive eternal punishment because I can never trust you again. You did it once so you might do it again.

Does that sound like solid logic to you? Do you think such an approach would encourage constructive and positive growth in the child?

Children, and all people, should be eventually forgiven for their mistakes. This person has already spent a good fraction of his life confined to a small cement cell as a punishment.

Is there no possible way you see that he may repay his debt to society? Don't you think at some point he should deserves his rights as a human being given back to him?

How do you even know his punishment was fair in the first place? Did you know America has the highest number of incarcerated citizens out of any other nation in the world?

Did you know that a vast portion of those incarcerated are in prison for victimless crimes? It seems many people in this thread agree with you post. ATS is going downhill at breakneck speeds lately.

edit on 18/2/2013 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

I agree that children are children, they make mistakes... we all do at one point or another. Good people are good people. A lot of good people make mistakes as children and learn from them and do not repeat them as adults. We are talking about an adult man who obviously threw more than one punch. A self admitted violent offender who went to jail for six months over an alcohol induced fight. There is way more to this story than what the OP is telling us. No one should get a free ride for their actions. We all know the rules in America, we are conditioned for them in school from an early age, getting detention, getting sent to the principals office, suspensions expulsions. There should be no bleeding heart "oh you poor dear" sentiment for this mans crime. And if you actually believe that the majority of people in prison are there for victimless crimes then you are misguided. A victimless crime can be considered money laundering, drug abuse, drug manufacturing, intent to sell. All crimes have victims whether direct or indirect. Do you really want all of those "victimless crime" offenders out of jail so they can make and sell drugs to our neighbors and children?Rob your home or steal your cars? Insurance fraud, (want to see you insurance rates get higher than they are right now? you are a victim of insurance fraud every day) So then down the road there can be even more violent crimes as our drug addicted youths turn to violence to fuel their addictions? There are very few people who are in jail who don't deserve to be there. Sounds like you are listening to too much main stream media. I have a good friend who is a deputy sheriff and he is one of he most laid back and down to earth people I know. He agrees that with our due process and legal system,( which most people complain about only because they feel victimized by some crime they committed which they justified to themselves as being right) the people that go behind bars belong there. There are too many people who would rather sell drugs or stolen goods for a quick buck that actually work an honest job.

Originally posted by onequestion

This is pretty much my biggest gripe. How is it that the constitution was written to limit the authority of the government but it doesn't limit the authority of the government for those who commit crimes? The same government who defines the crime.... How is this possible?

If we change any law to create a crime that shouldn't be a crime can we effectively eliminate all gun owners by removing their rights for commiting a crime deemed worthy of the elimination of constitutional rights? Was this document created to apply to everyone within the republic or only those deemed worthy?

I've brought this up in numerous posts over the years, that the government creates crimes to remove our rights.

The "drug war" is a perfect example.

The media is complicit in aggrandizing violent behavior, promoting violent confrontations, most of which would have been a disorderly persons offense 40 years ago, if prosecuted at all.

The "drug war" itself has removed the gun rights of many who would be prone to ask questions, the media conditioning sweeps up those who may be prone to act on those questions.

I'm in the same boat with you, a victim of the drug war.

How many thousands of us are there, effectively corralled by this conspiracy?

Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by miss_sky

 

I believe in second chances and that you should have your rights back. I kinda feel sorry for these felons that have served their time, get out of jail and find out how hard it is to get a fresh start. Its so hard for them to get a job cause these days every employer wants to know everything about your past. Your credit history, your criminal record and their stupid drug tests that just about all jobs require. What ever happened to filling out an application, interviewing and getting the job?

Not to invoke a sense of victimization as i do take personally responsibility for the position i am in, but i also inherently understand that apart of the punishment i have been undergoing and will continue to undergo for the rest of my life is unjust from the perspective of the person experiencing this.

Dude you broke the law, thats it, plain and simple, did the guy you "king hit" get a chance to defend himself , no.
It wasnt a fight, you walked up to a group saw two people fighting and laid out a guy, you are lucky not to be doing 15 for manslaughter or 25 to life for such a stupid act.
so in my opinion STFU you got out of this by the skin of your teeth, your lucky you didnt kill him.

reply to post by Dogdish


Can you explain how you are a victim of the drug war? If you are in the same boat as the OP then do you have a felony conviction for some sort of crime? There seems to be this total lack of understanding that those who are locked up because of drugs are "victims" you are not a victim you are a criminal. Its our children neighbors friends and families who are the victims. The innocent people who you steal from, sell drugs to, the neighborhoods you cook meth in and then the house blows up, the foot traffic that comes to your house to buy drugs that run over our children or assault our families when we try to stand up to you without the guns that are in our bedrooms because we want be civil and naively hope for the same. Felons are felons, don't do the crime and you wont do the time, there are a very few minor cases where rights should be given back after time served but people who talk about serving time for drugs or violence do not fall into those "very few" cases.

Originally posted by Catalyst317
reply to post by Hefficide

 

Well said. I have a 13 year old felony of Driving on a Suspended License due to a previous misdemeanor DUI charge 13 years ago. Even though I have walked the straight and narrow since, I am still grouped together with felons that have committed some very serious crime. This adds validity to your point that not all felonies are created equal.

Are you for real, these crimes you are talking of a serious and your upset you still carry a stigma for what, actually getting busted driving intoxicated and getting punished for it. or would you have rathered you killed someone while driving hammered.
by the way I will lay $50 down right now you would fail a hair follicle and urine test!

OP, I can empathize with you to some degree. Forty years ago I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, as a juvenile.....save for a few months shy of being an adult. I've wondered many times over the course of my life the "what if's" of the precarious circumstances I got caught up in. I could've easily been arraigned, convicted and jailed had things turned out a bit differently. As it was, I copped a plea and got off with a fine, probation and the offense expunged after a year. BUT, that was only because a relative - being a former businessman and Shriner, had some pull with the judge; unknown to me at the time.

On the OTH, my son took up with a little twerp at 15; the other kid decided to lift a jacket in JCP's. They were both arrested. My son had to go to court, pay a fine and do community service. Banned from all JCP's for life. The saving grace for them was the jacket was just under $50. A few dollars more and they would've been charged with a felony.

I've never trusted the system.....judges are bought off all the time. Few ever get caught and convicted of their crimes! There's definitely two sets of laws for "them" and us. It sucks!

In conclusion, neither me or my son were ever on the wrong side of the law again. Lesson learned. But our lives could've been completely ruined by our past mistakes, as juveniles. We were very lucky.

reply to post by kdyam


Oh man how I struggle to keep this tab open...

No one should get a free ride for their actions.

Did I say he should get a free ride? Where did you get that from what I said? I said he deserves forgiveness at some point, instead of being treated as a sub-human for the rest of his life.

We all know the rules in America, we are conditioned for them in school from an early age, getting detention, getting sent to the principals office, suspensions expulsions.

Indeed, we are conditioned from birth to fall in line. It seems they did a great job on you.

And if you actually believe that the majority of people in prison are there for victimless crimes then you are misguided. A victimless crime can be considered money laundering, drug abuse, drug manufacturing, intent to sell.

Money laundering is obviously not a victimless crime, since the money being laundered is most likely stolen or used to fund other illegal activities. However I see no victim when the old guy up the road grows a few plants for personal use. Now a underground drug manufacture may bring harm to people by supplying drugs to children or by supplying low quality drugs. But this only occurs because the Government refuses to regulate the industry like alcohol or tobacco. Naturally underground drug dealers will pop up to meet the demand, regardless of how long the war on drugs continues.

All crimes have victims whether direct or indirect.

Is that a fact is it? First of all how can you even define "crime"? Is a crime something the Government declares to be a crime? Then why do some Governments in the world have different laws, which of these Governments knows what "true crime" is? Is it something that most of us agrees is immoral? What about all the different cultures around the world which hold conflicting moral values? Which of these cultures truly understands morality? My concept of crime is probably different to yours, and yours different to most other people. Lastly, why is it that many of the laws enacted by legislators quite often conflict with the publics concept of crime?

I cannot wrap my head around the mentality of people who wouldn't intervene in the same way as the OP, assuming the OP is telling the truth. My view would be that people who wouldn't are hiding behind supposed legal morality because it helps them sleep at night.

Had a friend who saw me beat senseless in an unfair attack and did nothing. That friendship ended there and then. The irony is I knew my friend was about to be beaten up and robbed by 3 guys, so I went outside and wandered on over to help him! I didn't approach aggressively, I walked over and joined the conversation as if I was non the wiser to their intentions. Despite being scared I thought better 3 on 2 than 3 on 1, he's a friend after all. They started swinging and my "friend" took to running like a dog. I hazard a guess there's enough ATS members who'd flee in the same cowardly manner, I can just tell. Probably, many of you would have opted to hide in your house and pretend it wasn't happening. Calling the police instead, good law abiding citizens that you all are.

I'm also a criminal like the OP, but committed a more severe violent crime than the OP at age 17. The laws are what they are. They don't care if you change. It's not as if you can judge that, anyway. You can't judge that, and people here who are saying how they would or wouldn't react, based on their experience or non-experience, you're just talking crap. How do you know if someone has changed until you put them in the same pressure cooker situation and see how they choose to react? You can't. Plus it's a dangerous precedent as people can lie when they really haven't changed. That's understandable.

I feel that I'm a good person, a more mature and intelligent person that I was as a 17 year old kid and I wouldn't do again what I did do, but who doesn't think they're good at heart? And I have been in situations since where I've showed self discipline, even in one instance after being hit flush in the face with a bar stool But I can't say for certain whether a reaction deemed OTT by the law is completely off the table, even though I've changed as a person drastically, I still can't predict the future. If I felt seriously threatened or that friend or family were, I may react excessively in the eyes of the courts. I've only once been in a situation since my conviction where I feared for my safety and luckily I was with another person and we managed to restrain the aggressor in question so that worked out well.

But on violence generally, I'm not a non-violent person and I don't think I ever will be. I can't wrap my head around why it's a big issue for some. Of all the truly abhorrent things out there, all the racists, sexists and bigots, all the people who eat meat and are complicit in the murder of other sentient beings, all the widespread bullying and oppression, a dust up between consenting individuals is wholly trivial. In my view. But what I was convicted of wasn't trivial and I'm not making excuses for that, just that I don't think 2 men throwing a few punches is a huge deal. Uncivilised, but not the moral crime of the century. but I'm working class and was raised with a brother so you know how that goes

The biggest thing for me is that what I did has set back my life for years by forcing me into terrible jobs and preventing me from going to university. In future i'd like ideally to travel for some years, residing in countries for extended periods of time, naturally that will be extremely difficult with my criminal record. I could never see any of the sights of the USA for example. That annoys me.

I didn't used to like telling people but I feel for the last few years I've been a changed person so I don't hide it now. It's not something you usually tell strangers though, first impressions and all. Speaking for me, in a sense I probably needed that reality slap of a big fine and a just avoided 2 year sentence to wake up to myself. So a lot of good has come of it from that point of view.

Originally posted by schizm99

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by schizm99

 

what about the ones with degrees who have been law abiding, productive citizens for the last 22 years?

Not tossing you out of the mix, but there is a different circumstance to your story!

they should make it so that during your probation period (mine was 5 yrs) you aren't allowed to own or possess a gun. after that and after all debts are paid you go back to your default rights guaranteed in the Constitution

reply to post by onequestion


move somewhere new.
Start again

First you think of yourself..... then..

Nope, it`s supposed to be the other way around.
You say you got charged with assault, so my question is - what about the other guy/girl?

He/she is probably mentally scarred for life - so why shouldn`t you be in some way or another?
Maybe they have physical scars and problems after your assault, something you may not have. This is something that will always follow them, while you want your life to be perfect again.

Violent criminals are exactly the people who should not be able to own guns. You dirty liberals and your hug-a-thug ideology is what is wrong in the first place. We must get tough on crime. And I'm talking "boot on neck" tough.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

The biggest thing for me is that what I did has set back my life for years by forcing me into terrible jobs and preventing me from going to university. In future i'd like ideally to travel for some years, residing in countries for extended periods of time, naturally that will be extremely difficult with my criminal record. I could never see any of the sights of the USA for example. That annoys me.

I didn't used to like telling people but I feel for the last few years I've been a changed person so I don't hide it now. It's not something you usually tell strangers though, first impressions and all. Speaking for me, in a sense I probably needed that reality slap of a big fine and a just avoided 2 year sentence to wake up to myself. So a lot of good has come of it from that point of view.

my initial crime was committed before we knew my wife was pregnant and was facing ten years for a non-violent drug crime. two or three weeks out on bond and she's pregnant, so I took it as a sign or maybe it was an opportunity to change. I decided I was finally going to play by "the rules" and wound up getting where I always wanted to be to begin with (prettymuch), albeit in a quite circuitous route. It certainly does a mind-F on you when you carry that burden on your back and you know it's for the rest of your life.

Originally posted by Hopechest
Most people don't end up committing violent crime unless they are...well violent.

. If you get your rights back who's to say you won't act out again in the future? I mean, you have in the past.

If he doesn't get his rights back, who's to say that he won't act out again?

The justice system is severely flawed. Fortunately, flaws cause break downs.

Originally posted by TheComte
Violent criminals are exactly the people who should not be able to own guns. You dirty liberals and your hug-a-thug ideology is what is wrong in the first place. We must get tough on crime. And I'm talking "boot on neck" tough.

Hasn't that been the mode d'emploi for millennium? how's that been working out?