Paul was a murderer

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Logarock

 

He's referring to the scribes who, centuries later were copying and adding their own interpretations to the texts. The same is true for the New Testament. The book of Mark was still being added to by scribes up to 1000 years later.

edit on 1-3-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

He is trying to say thatn the hebrew scribes in captivity were influnced by the tale tales of their captors. But the fact is as the hebrew history shows they had this all put down on paper many many years before anyone got taken captive to anyplace.

reply to post by Logarock


That's in context to the thread, which is about the Epic of Gilgamesh. He's comparing the Biblical flood scripts. It's off topic for this thread. I just wanted to show you that the translations of our Bibles today are influenced by scribes, and Yahweh's name was inserted where El Elyon's or Elohim's once was.

This was proven through the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and we can see where, when and who added to or altered the various books. Isaiah, for example was written by at least 2 different people, centuries apart.

But the fact is as the hebrew history shows they had this all put down on paper many many years before anyone got taken captive to anyplace.

That's not true. There are lots of manuscripts that predate the Hebrews that are mirrored in the Hebrew text. The flood is one example. There are many others.

reply to post by windword


Um, Elohim and El Elyon are titles, not names.

Elohim is the plural of El which is "God" in Hebrew.
El Elyon means "Most High God"

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I am a good one to ask but why do you debate with these heathens .You do know that some people get paid to try to destroy Christianity .You should read the Protocols of Zion . You would see that there is an organised plot to destroy Christianity an it's not a fraud .Of course you would have to get past the propaganda that the Protocols are a fraud simply by reading into them . You will conclude the fraud was trying to keep them from the public .

reply to post by NOTurTypical


El Elyon, The Most High God, is a distinctly different entity that Yahweh, as illustrated in Deuteronomy 32:8, from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

We also know that the Essenes believed that the evil Hebrew priests had corrupted the Torah, were worshiping the wrong God and practicing the wrong calender. Their God didn't require animal sacrifice, but Yahweh did.

Who was their God then? Abba? El Elyon?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Logarock

 

That's in context to the thread, which is about the Epic of Gilgamesh. He's comparing the Biblical flood scripts. It's off topic for this thread. I just wanted to show you that the translations of our Bibles today are influenced by scribes, and Yahweh's name was inserted where El Elyon's or Elohim's once was.

This was proven through the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and we can see where, when and who added to or altered the various books. Isaiah, for example was written by at least 2 different people, centuries apart.

But the fact is as the hebrew history shows they had this all put down on paper many many years before anyone got taken captive to anyplace.

That's not true. There are lots of manuscripts that predate the Hebrews that are mirrored in the Hebrew text. The flood is one example. There are many others.

edit on 1-3-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

Man you are a pain. What you posted and what you often post is not directly related to the thing you are responding to. And you are smart enough to know that so one can only understand you are simply a provocateur. You dont post tothe poster but post to whoever many be reading that doesnt understand enough to know you are smoking up the issue.

The quote from me that you posted above was about writings in possesion of the hebrews at the time they were taken into captivity. Which was an answer to the idea that the texts became fouled up during the captivity. The fact that there were other writtings around does not make that "not true' as you said.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

El Elyon, The Most High God, is a distinctly different entity that Yahweh, as illustrated in Deuteronomy 32:8, from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

We also know that the Essenes believed that the evil Hebrew priests had corrupted the Torah, were worshiping the wrong God and practicing the wrong calender. Their God didn't require animal sacrifice, but Yahweh did.

Well you havent established that the Essenes have authority enough back up claims like this. If the Torah itself had been corrupted Jesus would have pointed that out. As it was he didnt point that out but pointed to the torah as foretelling of him. This is more proof that Jesus and John were not Essenes as Jesus pointed to the passover.....which was about animal as type sacrifice....and like Yahwehs son said of his own sacrifice "no my will but yours be done".

reply to post by Logarock


What "papers", what documents did the Hebrews have before their captivity? Did Abraham write the Law? No. The Law was handed to Moses after their exodus from Egypt.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Logarock

 

What "papers", what documents did the Hebrews have before their captivity? Did Abraham write the Law? No. The Law was handed to Moses after their exodus from Egypt.

Which was many years before the captivity. As well they had years of historical and prophetic writtings at the time.

reply to post by Logarock


What were they? Who's words did they quote?

Well you havent established that the Essenes have authority enough back up claims like this. If the Torah itself had been corrupted Jesus would have pointed that out. As it was he didnt point that out but pointed to the torah as foretelling of him. This is more proof that Jesus and John were not Essenes as Jesus pointed to the passover.....which was about animal as type sacrifice....and like Yahwehs son said of his own sacrifice "no my will but yours be done".

Please show me one example of Jesus, the Rabbi, participating in an animal sacrifice!

Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Jesus reinterpreted the Law, teaching that loving God and your neighbor was the most important commandment. Please show me where in the Old Testament, Yahweh required his people to love their neighbors.

Jesus overturned the money changers tables at the temple and called the pharisee children of Satan. Jesus called his God "Father", Abba, which created a revolutionary schism between Jesus and the Pharisees.

I, as well as many others, believe that Jesus'' mission was to restore the Torah, from it's corrupted state, teaching it's true and mystical meaning. Paul became an enemy of the true teachings of Jesus, by claiming that the law no longer applied.

reply to post by Logarock

Go back and read what was said to Moses a bit more carefully.

You mean Moses the guy that murdered someone then was talked to by a "burning bush" then became beloved by god???

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

El Elyon, The Most High God, is a distinctly different entity that Yahweh, as illustrated in Deuteronomy 32:8, from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

We also know that the Essenes believed that the evil Hebrew priests had corrupted the Torah, were worshiping the wrong God and practicing the wrong calender. Their God didn't require animal sacrifice, but Yahweh did.

Who was their God then? Abba? El Elyon?

No, God has numerous titles in the Bible. Tons of them, but has only one proper name. Titles aren't names. That would be like saying Barack Obama (name) and the President of the United States (title) are clearly different people.

Elohim is the pluralised form of "God". El Elyon in Hebrew means "Most High God".

reply to post by windword

The book of Mark was still being added to by scribes up to 1000 years later.

That's blatantly false. Mark wasn't being added to, it was being expurgated from by Gnostics at Alexandria. The last 12 verses are a prime example. The 4th through 5th century Gnostic manuscripts all have these 12 verses missing.

Huge problem, Irenaeus quotes from them in 180 AD and Hyppoleteus does as well in the third century AD. The Gnostics removed those verses because they rejected the resurrection.

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by Logarock

 

Go back and read what was said to Moses a bit more carefully.

You mean Moses the guy that murdered someone then was talked to by a "burning bush" then became beloved by god???

Yea thats him. He killed a taskmaster in the act of beating the crap out of a Hebrew. Folks in this country joke about killing southern slave masters these days and its all cool and maybe rightfully so. Moses was about like a black man that would lose his temper and kill someone giving another negro the lash. I think you get the drift.

Originally posted by windword


Jesus reinterpreted the Law, teaching that loving God and your neighbor was the most important commandment. Please show me where in the Old Testament, Yahweh required his people to love their neighbors.

Thats in the law....how to treat ones neighbor. Thats why Jesus called His teaching here "the whole of the law".

Again what planet are you from? Sure you know what you are talking about.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Logarock

 

What were they? Who's words did they quote?

Well you havent established that the Essenes have authority enough back up claims like this. If the Torah itself had been corrupted Jesus would have pointed that out. As it was he didnt point that out but pointed to the torah as foretelling of him. This is more proof that Jesus and John were not Essenes as Jesus pointed to the passover.....which was about animal as type sacrifice....and like Yahwehs son said of his own sacrifice "no my will but yours be done".

Please show me one example of Jesus, the Rabbi, participating in an animal sacrifice!

You are getting to be easy meat.

Jesus told two guys he healed of leprosy to go show themselves to the priest and give the required sacrifice which included killing animals. Read it yourself.

Not to mention that He himself was the cover for all animal sacrificing that had been done in type up to that point.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by windword


Jesus reinterpreted the Law, teaching that loving God and your neighbor was the most important commandment. Please show me where in the Old Testament, Yahweh required his people to love their neighbors.

Thats in the law....how to treat ones neighbor. Thats why Jesus called His teaching here "the whole of the law".

Again what planet are you from? Sure you know what you are talking about.

Please show me where, in the Law, it says to love your neighbor as yourself.

reply to post by Logarock



Jesus was against sacrifice, however, here's an answer to that:

In Mark 1:44, why did Jesus command the man he cured of leprosy to offer "sacrifices" that Moses commanded for his cleansing as a testimony to them?

See that you don't tell this to anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.

In reading this verse, it is clear that Jesus specifies that it was Moses and not his Father who commanded the Jews to offer sacrifices for cleansing. But Jesus is against sacrifice! So one would ask, why? Why did Jesus command/encourage the leper whom he healed to continue in performing a sacrifice? Jesus states "as a testimony to them". Perhaps, this was the reason he commanded the leper to perform the sacrifice? But why would Jesus choose to show testimony of God's cleansing by using men's terms (sacrifice) instead of the Father's terms (mercy)? For surely this is why the leper was healed...the Father's mercy on him! Surely Jesus was using this leper to show the high priests that it is mercy and not sacrifice that the Father desires, and thus the leper was healed before performing his sacrifice in front of the high priests?

MY ANSWER

The leper was forced to live under the restrictions of the Law until the priest certified him as cleansed. He could not return to a normal life in his home or with his family or friends. The relevant law is in Leviticus:
www.voiceofjesus.org...

reply to post by NOTurTypical


The Hebrews have a long history of being polytheistic. They had many gods. Again, see Deuteronomy 32:8 from the Dead Sea Scrolls translation.

El Elyon is a separate deity from Yahweh.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

The Hebrews have a long history of being polytheistic. They had many gods. Again, see Deuteronomy 32:8 from the Dead Sea Scrolls translation.

El Elyon is a separate deity from Yahweh.

Get a Hebrew dictionary. El Elyon means "Most High God".

The Most High God

El Elyon. The Most High God.

This title stresses God's strength, sovereignty, and supremacy (Gen. 14:20; Ps. 9:2). Sometimes referred to in Scripture simply as Elyon (e.g., Num. 24:16).

Hebrew