Berlusconi: "Bribes Are Necessary - They Are Not Crimes"

reply to post by Hefficide


Lobbying should be a capital crime. It should also be a capital crime for an elected official to accept any bribe, gift,token etc.

Sounds like power corrupts.....perhaps absolute power will corupt absolutely?

The bitter reality is that the people that were put in positions of representing the people feel that they are in control instead of being in service to the people. This illusion is being torn down and will never be rebuilt in a system that
by money and control has snuffed out so many good contributors to a decent way of life.

I for one believe that we control our own fate and if the path we chose is full of garbage, then we reload and clean the way to a decent life. It is nice to read and see so many waking up to what has happened and what can be done
that will bring peace,happiness and joy in a world without strife and see the vision of all being equal.
The dark burden is sliding down the cliff as you read this.
Peace!

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by beezzer

 

Is it really worth doing business in a place where it is necessary to grease hands? Wait, what am I saying, we do the same damn thing in the western world, except they call it pretty names like licensing, permits etc etc.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by Hefficide

 

Lobbying should be a capital crime. It should also be a capital crime for an elected official to accept any bribe, gift,token etc.

Let's not forget Private campaign donations to individual politicians.
It is bribery, plain and simple.

Donate to political parties not individual politicians.
You know a system is messed up when people will pay millions of $$ of other peoples money for a job that pays $100,000.00 per year.

Originally posted by Hefficide

Knew this couldn't be about America. Here we call it "lobbying" and not only is it legal - it's considered honorable and proper.

One day we'll cross the Rubicon into the Twilight Zone and get the disenfranchised to band together to form a lobby for the elimination of lobbying.

Star, that was NOT some attempt at Browniesconi points... but if I pre-
register could I get a knockdown on that Rod Serling T-shirt? I love it.
Honestly, Heff this is the limit. I was told something a long time ago by my
Uncle Bill (who was 6 mo. into his first of 5 1/2 terms as mayor) about
Paul Powell's bedroom shelf-- and if you remember loose 5s and 10s fluttering
down from the late IL Sec. of State's shoe boxes: Bill retired at 72, honorably.
"Two things wrong. He thought he'd live forever. The second one was,
after a while I'm sure he thought what he was doing wasn't wrong anymore."
Can psychopathy be sometimes gradual in onset; and one early afternoon
dawn on the subject "I have arrived"?
Gary Larson might have said best and most briefly:
"Welcome to Hell, here's your accordian."

These poor people need the best that the mental health community can provide.
Lithium is highly reactive in water...

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Thanks Tenth. This is the very painful tip of THE gigantic dirty iceberg,
and should get a lot of hang time for everyone's sake.
Stated later to Heff, I'm sure my uncle had it right. If you have time to
plod the posts, you might agree with his take too. A mayor a lot of
times, he was nothing like stupid yours truly.

reply to post by dc4lifeskater

Well in the good ol U S of A, "bribes" are illegal.

However, "political contributions" are encouraged.

Originally posted by schuyler
These guys were talking about doing business in foreign markets, and therein lies the issue. It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario, and, I think, a completely unworkable situation.

On the one hand you have everyone in the Western World telling you to NOT judge other cultures by Western standards. It's ethnocentric, we are told, to foist our values on foreign cultures, who have just as much a right to their ways of life as we do ours. We are not to interfere. So, for example, we must accept Islam as an OK religion even while we condemn our own, and if Sharia law proclaims the death penalty for adultery and allows you "honor killings" because your daughter glanced at another boy, then, by God, we had better just stay out of it because we have no right to interfere and it's none of our business.

Oh, and bribery. The rest of the world exists on the tradition of bribery. Whether you slip the customs agent in Mexico a twenty to "expedite" the customs process, or you pay the beat cop in Cairo to allow you to park the tour bus close to the Sphinx (I saw this happen myself), or whether you arrange a couple of million to an African dictator on the side to get drilling rights, the fact is that "gung sa ma" (Chinese for "just so much") is an accepted practice in most of the world.

On the other hand, of course, we in the Western World are "held to a higher standard" because, as everyone knows, "bribery = corruption" and is a crime. If you accept so much as the gift of a T-shirt after choosing AT&T over Panasonic for a telephione system you have to report it or risk being fired. The public will become enraged that you enriched yourself with said T-shirt and there will be 100 comments to the story in the newspaper calling for your beheading.

So we are expected to compete to sell goods and services to other countries while the purchasing agents scheme to get the biggest bribes for the contract. In this case an Italian firm was selling helicopters to India. Remember now: You CANNOT judge another culture with your own silly westernized ideas of morality. If you do you are ethnocentric and probably racist, too. That's against the rules. On the other hand you have the other country that's asking how many T-shirts they get if they give the contract to you--sometimes quite openly. And that's against the rules, too. What to do?

Do you want the contract, or not? Berlusconi is telling you the truth here, the absolute truth, the "real politik" of doing business globally. What you call "corruption" the rest of the world calls "doing business normally." In the rest of the world it's not a crime, or is only on paper to appease the westerners. That's exactly what Berlusconi is telling you. You have to come to grips with this when you start calling for beheadings. You don't really want to be told the truth here because it's too upsetting to your sensitive westernized palate. It puts you in a state of cognitive dissonance. Your head may explode from the strain.

Berlusconi is right. Bribes are necessary. They aren't crimes. And if you have ever accepted a T-shirt or a ball cap from a supplier or slipped the maitre d' a few bucks for a good table at a restaurant, you've participated in it, too.

Not really! I think bribery in general is looked down upon by everyone throughout the world. It is called cheating. Just because some countries and their cultures have more tolerance for it does not mean it is acceptable or appropriate.

Western cultures are known for hypocrisy. That is a different story. They overblow everything out of porportion.

As for global trade you can blame the central bankers who literally control investment and frown upon protectionist measures. Free trade really means no tariffs and let the developed nations exploit the underdeveloped ones. That is why WTO was a failure from the beginning.

as far as i'm concerned the dude that burst his fat mouth with the scaled down model of the leaning tower of pisa never hit him hard enough......he's a dick

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by Hefficide

 

Lobbying should be a capital crime. It should also be a capital crime for an elected official to accept any bribe, gift,token etc.

It was republicans that repeatedly equated unlimited monetary contributions to freedom of speech. The democrats were for limited campaign contributions and lobbying. I personally think a vote tax would cover all the campaign expenses and provide for equal opportunity campaigning for all the registered parties; split the pie if you will.

There is nothing wrong with lobbying after elections are over, provided no monetary gifts are accepted.

And capital crime is overkill. Just impeach, convict and imprison them for 5 years.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
he's right of course

we all bribe pizza delivery men, waitresses, the plow guy, and we even bribe the kids with presents and who hasn't caved in and gotten the candy at the store to quiet the kid ?

get off your high horse, everyone on this board bribes people

just in smaller amounts

You don't know the difference between a tip and a bribe? Really?

Someone gives me a haircut and I am happy with it...i give them a tip. If not then I pay the fee and don't come back.

Politician accepts bribe means there is a conflict of interest and cheating going on.

Hi all,

After having lived for the past several years in Italy, I have had first-hand experiences which astonished me when I first arrived but which after the first year or two, I happily accepted as merely being ´Italia´.

For example;

Which other Head of State as Berlusconi has had as many CRIMINAL court cases whilst in office? (20+).

It was Berlusconi, who whilst serving as President of the EU, enacted compulsory legislation that ALL EU motorists carry reflective jackets at ALL times and for ALL of their passengers. No-one accused him of corruption back then, even though he reportedly owned an enormous stake in one of the main companies who had the lucrative good fortune of manufacturing these jackets. Is it criminal? Insider trading, or just shrewd?

It is exactly how the likes of the US and UK perform their business, so why not Italy?

Perhaps they just don´t hide it so much?



Having also travelled extensively across Europe, one can only wonder at the blatant, continued support and admiration for Benito, Amilcare, Andrea, Mussolini, without so much as the slightest whisper of opposition from any of Italies partners in the EU, not to mention Israel.

More times than can be remembered in Italy, I have walked into shops, cafe´s, garages, bars, kiosks (even at the main border crossing into Switzerland), where there has been a considerable stand/display of ´Il Duce´ (Mussolini), lighters, shirts, chocolates, wines, hats, keyrings, - even baseball bats (seriously) - etc. etc. etc.

Elsewhere in Europe, if you so much as question the official ´6 Million´ fantasy or ´official´ Hitler story, then you can - and will - be imprisoned, yet here we have an active movement to resurrect the regime of one of the Nazi´s closest allies and supporters.


Let us not forget that whilst serving as Italian PM in 2009, (yes he switched his team shirts whilst PM) Berlusconi created a ´new´ Political Party called the PDL, ´Populi della Liberta´ (People of Freedom.. Ha ha!) which was to be ´proudly´ based upon the founding principles of Mussolini´s National Fascist Party.



Furthermore, I have hung out with supposedly, anti-establiment, but hard-core Punks in and around Milan who believe that ´Mussolini made Italy great... again`. Believe me when I tell you that the Black-Shirts are back!
As much as these people disliked the odious and embarrassing Berlusconi, and some even bought marching powder from his son, I rarely met an Italian who had even one bad word to say about his passion for all things Mussolini.

The point I am trying to make is that Italy is NOT like the rest of the world, that which is frowned upon elsewhere is perfectly acceptable here, but only if you have the money and position in Italy.

My friends used to call it Sh!taly but it´s not s#!t, it´s just mad on a grand scale and personally, I love the insanity as much as I love the people.

Berlusconi owns the majority of the media outlets as well as various finance and other commercial interests, but please be under no illusion, Berlusconi, with all his Policewoman, bum-rubbing antics, is merely a front man for higher powers in the country.



Italy is still controlled by the Vatican.

If the Vatican City allows corruption, then the rest of Italy follows.

The Roman Paedophile Church was founded on lies, theft, bribery, murder and god-knows what else...

Please don´t be so surprised when their subjects follow suit!

Originally posted by dc4lifeskaterActually... it is a crime... but it seems only if you aren't someone special/rich/famous/politician they are the only ones who don't get in trouble for it.. For everyone else, yes its illegal..

Not exactly. If you're someone special/rich/famous/politician AND you're favoured by whoever has the most power at the moment, then you don't get into trouble.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07


There is nothing wrong with lobbying after elections are over, provided no monetary gifts are accepted.

Yes there is. Lobbying bypasses the People's Constitutional guarantee of representation. My Congressman represents those people who reside in his Congressional District. Those are the ONLY people he should be listening to.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
And capital crime is overkill. Just impeach, convict and imprison them for 5 years.

NO!! They must be made an example of. TREASON IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!!