The 10 Commandments - Doctrine of Men

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


The OP continually confuses me. It would seem he or she completely disregards everything about the bible, yet still identifies as a catholic. What is the point in believing anything in the new testament, if you discard the entire OT (including the 10 commandments!) completely?

Did Isaiah not prophesy about the coming of the messiah? Did David not allude to Him in the psalms? Did Daniel not foresee him? Did the prophets who foretold his coming believe in a lie? According to the OP, yes, they did. Yet the OP identifies as a Christian. Maybe it's time to re-examine your ideas on God? It would appear that Christianity doesn't suit you?

DeadSeraph
The OP continually confuses me. It would seem he or she completely disregards everything about the bible, yet still identifies as a catholic.

Yes you are confused .... I said I WAS RAISED CATHOLIC.
I have said many times that I do not fit under the Catholic umbrella now.

What is the point in believing anything in the new testament, if you discard the entire OT (including the 10 commandments!) completely?

1 - I AM NOT THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD.
2 - It makes sense to disregard that in the Old Testament that has been debunked or that is highly questionable. The fact is, Noahs Ark and the creation Myth of Adam and Eve have been totally debunked. The fact is that the Ten Commandments are easily explained away as a human invention. The fact is that the story of Exodus is now widely believed by archeologists to not have happened like the scripture says. I have made NO COMMENTS about Isaiah or Daniel.

The New Testament and the Old Testament are two different books. Jesus said ''love God and love your neighbor'. It isn't necessary to literally believe in the creation myth of Adam and Eve ... or in the fiction of Noahs Ark ... or in the folklore of Exodus.

Again - I am not the topic. Stick to the topic and discuss that ... not me.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

You are welcome to believe that Moses got the Ten Commandments directly from God on the top of that mountain. The evidence presented points to another direction ... that the laws of human conduct had been around for thousands of years. But believe whatever you wish.

Either God put them in the human heart thousands of years earlier ... or men came up with them as humanity evolved towards a civilized society and they saw what worked and what didn't .... or both. But either way, Moses didn't get them direct from God on a mountain top the way the Old Testament says.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

Did Isaiah not prophesy about the coming of the messiah? Did David not allude to Him in the psalms? Did Daniel not foresee him?

Especially Isaiah 11.

Book of Isaiah says:
with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked. - Isaiah 11:4

Islam teaches...
"Isa shall set out in pursuit of Dajjal. All those who embraced the evil of Dajjal shall perish even as the breath of Isa touches them"

(Dajjal = anti-Christ.)

Did the prophets who foretold his coming believe in a lie?

I trust the prophets. Jesus himself referred to them.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Either God put them in the human heart thousands of years earlier

Yes. Thats what I've been saying.

That is how cultures BEFORE Israelites had those laws.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
That is how cultures BEFORE Israelites had those laws.

... and they didn't come from God on a mountaintop directly communicated to Moses.

a reply to: FlyersFan

... and they didn't come from God on a mountaintop directly communicated to Moses.

Paul in Galatians mentions the Law as if they did, but probably more as a means to identify what Law it was specifically that he was discussing, rather than to the means by which that Law was originally transmitted.

I think that there is an underlying skepticism in Paul's rhetoric that comes through, that the Law was something later imposed, rather than being fundamental to righteousness in general.

I mean, he doesn't hide that opinion, but makes less blatant a sense of its having been merely devised as a device later than the time the story portrays.

Following God's way, keeping His Commandments is the way to a happy life here and the way to eternity in Heaven
with God. God loved you first, He created you.

a reply to: FlyersFan

TextBottom line ... God didn't appear to Moses and hand him 10 Commandments .. Moses got it from his training in Egypt and the 10 Commandments are from MUCH older civilizations. Moses took the commandments from the older civilizations and made them easier for the Jews to understand .. condensing them into 10 easy to remember laws.

I agree that God did not hand Moses ten commands. Wasn't that easy according to most bibles. Moses spent 40 days writing God's commands and learning the rewards and penalties of obedience and disobedience to the ten commands. Also oral Torah was taught at the summit or did you simply forget all of that little stuff that took 40 days to get straight? I guess the Egyptians taught Moses all of that too. Compare Torah with your other religions and then you might get the picture. Where in the world do you dig up your religion?

This discussion has come up on another thread so I'm going to bump this for new folks to see. The 10 Commandments have been around a lot longer than a lot of people want to believe. They have been passed down and were passed around for a very long time before the claim that Moses got them from God.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
reply to post by ctophil

AfterInfinity: We atheists like to call that "empathy". It's not really a divinely inspired gift or a god-given power. It's just the psychological ability to put yourself in another's shoes. It always confuses me when people give God credit for our morality, because it implies that they don't recognize empathy or employ it. Otherwise, they'd acknowledge the fact that a lot of what they do or don't do is because they know if the roles were reversed, they'd appreciate the same in return. The "Golden Rule" and all that.

Empathy is a good quality as it means you empathize with others view points, social upbringing, current circumstances; glad you recognize it if only JUST a psychological ability whatever that means; I suspect dead; emotionally REMOVED. This entire world is a social experiment designed by 'a creator greater than us', we are lab rats.

AfterInfinity: There's no deity involved in my moral code. Pure empathy, plain and simple. The fact that some of my feelings coincide with the ten commandments just tells me that perhaps the ten commandments came from something a little closer to home than everyone is willing to accept. I think that makes more sense than some are willing to admit. Have you ever had those moments when you're afraid to be honest with even yourself? Or perhaps being honest with yourself doesn't feel as rewarding as living under a delusion. Perhaps you like the stability it offers.

Moral code without a deity explicit in defining them? So you are going by Judicial Law only, don't break the laws set forth by your government (jail time). I have never had one moment of dishonesty regarding myself as I know who I am (faults and perfection). I don't live under any delusions, why; the path of enlightenment takes care of these things resulting in GNOSIS. It is not easy this, takes years of introspection self examination, how does one relate to a higher creator it cannot directly experience other than by the fact of merely existing (or the observance of nature).

AfterInfinity: Either way, I'm one of those people that doesn't like living a lie. Which means if there's a truth to be had, I'm gonna have it. And if someone tells me it's wrong, I'm going to show them why it's right. That's what I'm doing here in this post.

Not sure you are even close to understanding the truth, where even to start. Anyone that was in Gnosis would not label themselves with such assurance as you do, because there is no such thing determined as being of Atheism beyond this physical realm (its laughable).

originally posted by: ctophil
It doesn't really matter if the 10 Commandments are man-made or not. They do teach a good foundation on how you should love God and humankind. The Bible was written by people who got teachings and revelations from beings in higher planes and dimensions of existence. So the Bible is man's interpretation of God, not the "Word of God." You might know it or not, but we all have the 10 Commandments and many other spiritual laws hidden within our minds and hearts. Because built within us is the Flame of God, the Mind of God, or whatever you want to call it. We fail to look within us because of the mindset that we are separate from God. But outside of the illusion we call Physical Reality, we are One of God. We have never been separate. What we perceive through our physical senses are only holographic in nature.

We individually took up the challenge of interpreting the teachings from the higher planes (on purpose). I am sorry to say perhaps 1 in 5 million souls (if not less) will understand their own true reason for incarnating. You describe it as holographic I describe it as the material human on a material stage play acting out material lives/ themselves as the stars. Both are true. The mindset of separateness exists as a test, it does not really exist and one has to work for the knowledge; this awareness is not automatically given at birth. All knowledge resides within; its up to the individual to find internal/eternal truths. This world is an illusion.