The biggest paradigm change in the world’s history

reply to post by Wonders

I think that Cain had seen plants and animals die before and that Adam and Eve would have told their children about the "..or you will surely die." clause that they disregarded and that God told Adam "Cursed is the ground for your sake." Honestly I think that the biggest paradigm change in the history was recorded. Jesus and his teachings.

I'll try to answer this as delicately as I can. Christianity was not the first religion or the only religion. A belief in the supernatural is associated with every civilisation and tribe dating back as far as we can look.

So Christianity was a new version but certainly not a new concept. A belief in the supernatural began way before it. I have tried to make an argument that the realisation of mortality gave birth to many things, religious belief being one of them. Hence the thread title.

Good read.

The paradigm change of which you speak occurs afresh every day—in the mind of yet another man or woman brought face to face with the fact of their own mortality.

Everyone feels himself immortal for a time. One recognises the inevitability of death, but it lies in some remote future and feels like an abstraction. Then one day we internalise the truth, and it horrifies us: I must die.

Did the knowledge of mortality give rise to our arts, our philosophy, our culture? We may argue whether it was the original cause, but we cannot deny that it has shaped them all—and remains, together with sex, their principal subject. Eros and thanatos, as the Greeks called them.

All our humanity is a protest against the inevitable.

reply to post by colin42

We went from simple tools to, in comparison complex painting and carvings in a relatively short period of time. Some claim aliens did it.

I would argue that due to time being relative, as you seemingly Freudian-eskly slipped in your statement, it (time) is really no measure of significance when speaking about the evolution of communication. In my opinion, it started out very 'organically' and only progressed so evidently "quick" due to necessity, and each advancement compounded with the previous creating a structure that through reiteration and self-similarity has now become our current means. The apparent 'complexity' of our creativity is all simply derived from the latter, which ultimately is dictated by what we have been consciously aware of, this being nature. There's much evidence of this even found in many canons and/or bodies of religious texts and doctrines. The most evident of this can be found in the 'Bible', and the references to seasons, water(s), etc. Also, there's further evidence of this through out most religions in the forms of parallels with agriculture, which may find root in the significant advancement for humanity, farming.

When did we see ourselves living on through our children? You would have to realise you were going to die to have that thought so the way you see your family and its importance would be changed.

In regards to mortality awareness, I would have to think that this took place very, very early on, before the evolution of communication was on the level of language and symbolism. But, as to the behaviors stated in the adage "living on through our children". This mentality wasn't necessarily always present, and is more of a cultural thing. We forget that even today, there are families that sell their children for the money. Which can be a win - win, I suppose... although rarely, much of it is slavery masquerading as potential better lives for the children and parents.

As to when this paradigm may have came into practice. It would seem to me that it started from the beginning. Almost in a parallel evolutionary means, as in empathy and morality which are both heavily connected with mortality awareness. Some maintain that empathy can and does remain the scopes of self-interest, which encompasses parallels with parents realizing that their children play a role in their own self-preservation. Which has much to do with them being viewed as assets, or contributing members that aid in the survival of the parents(self-preservation) and also the group(self-preservation of species).

So yes, mortality awareness played a pivotal role in the interaction and structure of our behaviors, especially that of how one would treat family and children. It would be my guess that the ability of empathy and altruism, finds its origins of perspective-taking driven by conscious awareness of return-benefits for self. Once a value or benefit is attributed to the offspring, it becomes instinctive to take care of them, show them the ropes and build off that. Cooperation is the means through which we find to be the most conducive towards our one's survival, no better place to start than with your children.

Knowing when you took a life of any animal and now with the knowledge of the finality of that action would result in guilt. We see this still today with many discussions about the morality of eating meat.

The advancements of our capabilities and situational awareness(especially the acknowledgement that animals feel pain with our necessity to inflict it, to even the dietary needs) have created these questions and allowed for the forming of this paradigm. There's only guilt if one's adopted philosophy and/or culture has created it. It's like slavery in a way... Many through out history have enslaved others, including the execution of them. It wasn't the awareness of the 'finality of that action', people knew they were killing people and making them suffer. It was a culture, a change in paradigm that created the movement away from traditional slavery.

Of course evolution plays its part but the way we interact with the environment influences the selection evolution describes and denying evolution is not what this thread was meant to be about. I know that is not what you inferred but I wanted to make that clear.

I'm not necessarily referencing evolution in a biological sense, although I think to go that direction is the best rabbit hole there is. But in my opinion, evolution in the sense of emotions and emotional states is important in this conversation There are surely adaptive qualities, survival of the fittest type implications and other parts of the theory of evolution that I find accurately explain paradigm changes through out our history.

reply to post by Astyanax
Yes I agree with all you wrote but you in fact confirm what I suggested in my OP. Our brain builds a shield that allows us to function.

To me this means when our ancestor became aware of mortality it set in motion many thought processes that before would not have been needed. That it would affect the way we viewed the world and our place in it. Forced us to focus in a way not even thought of before that knowledge.

It is true we at times believe we are immortal but there are occasions in everyone’s life where the shield we have built is torn away and the effect in many cases causes profound change in many aspects of the life of that individual so you could say the proof for my suggestion in the OP has living evidence even today.

A colleague at work who lived to work had a mild heart attack. He is fully recovered now but the man I see today is nothing like the person he used to be.

Originally posted by colin42
reply to post by Wonders

 

I think that Cain had seen plants and animals die before and that Adam and Eve would have told their children about the "..or you will surely die." clause that they disregarded and that God told Adam "Cursed is the ground for your sake." Honestly I think that the biggest paradigm change in the history was recorded. Jesus and his teachings.

I'll try to answer this as delicately as I can. Christianity was not the first religion or the only religion. A belief in the supernatural is associated with every civilisation and tribe dating back as far as we can look.

So Christianity was a new version but certainly not a new concept. A belief in the supernatural began way before it. I have tried to make an argument that the realisation of mortality gave birth to many things, religious belief being one of them. Hence the thread title.

What exactly are you trying to answer when I didn't even ask a question? Is there a point to your reply or not because you certainly have not done a very good job at convincing me of anything.

Originally posted by Wonders

Originally posted by colin42
reply to post by Wonders

 

I think that Cain had seen plants and animals die before and that Adam and Eve would have told their children about the "..or you will surely die." clause that they disregarded and that God told Adam "Cursed is the ground for your sake." Honestly I think that the biggest paradigm change in the history was recorded. Jesus and his teachings.

I'll try to answer this as delicately as I can. Christianity was not the first religion or the only religion. A belief in the supernatural is associated with every civilisation and tribe dating back as far as we can look.

So Christianity was a new version but certainly not a new concept. A belief in the supernatural began way before it. I have tried to make an argument that the realisation of mortality gave birth to many things, religious belief being one of them. Hence the thread title.

What exactly are you trying to answer when I didn't even ask a question? Is there a point to your reply or not because you certainly have not done a very good job at convincing me of anything.

I answered your post.

Not trying to convince you of anything I just commented that Christianity is not the only religion and members of other religions would disagree with you. I pointed out that religion also goes back in time a lot longer than Christianity. All of the above are simple facts

Your claim that Jesus and his teachings are the biggest paradigm change is your opinion. In my opinion it is not. Never said you were wrong so I don’t know why you are getting shirty?

Your reply ignored the case I was making so I don’t see how you claim I have not made a very good job. You never addressed it.

reply to post by Wonders

Religious troll attempts to derail thread...

Originally posted by Wonders
Honestly I think that the biggest paradigm change in the history was recorded. Jesus and his teachings.

...fails...

Originally posted by colin42
I'll try to answer this as delicately as I can...

...and gets angry that his bait was not taken.

Originally posted by Wonders
What exactly are you trying to answer when I didn't even ask a question? Is there a point to your reply or not because you certainly have not done a very good job at convincing me of anything.

:shk:

Pathetic.