What happened to factual debate? It's gone with the Do Do Bird.

After this thread, I really am pulling off this whole topic for awhile, across all the countless threads running about Dorner. However, I have a few things to say first.

The hypocrisy and hero worship of a twisted, warped killer is sickening here. Lately, it's been outright disgusting to see. First, it was Sandy Hook and every imaginable way to paint that sick bastard as something other than the killer he was. SOME people even suggest HE was a HERO and was going there to STOP the shootings...not commit them. If one need ask where the line between healthy paranoia and paranoid delusion lay? That would be a decent example to point to.

Now we have former LAPD Officer, Christopher Dorner. A Rookie when he was terminated for cause who never reached a high enough level as a Police Officer to lose the title of Rookie. Yet, he's considered some authority by some in..what? Police Policy? Corruption? Chris Dorner spent the last few years FIGHTING TO GET HIS JOB BACK......not 'stick it to the man'. Hardly. He was fighting to return to the street as a Cop. Thank God, given his eventual meltdown, he was 100% unsuccessful. However the notion that this was some fighter for the little guy is patently absurd and ignorant of the most basic facts of this case. He's no hero. He was a FIRED Ex-Cop who spent his time fighting to return to being a Cop in the Department he ended up declaring open war on, by his own words.

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People demand proof... Evidence.....and without it? This was murder?

Well... The same people demanding proof and yelling 'Innocent until proven guilty!!!" were just dandy about convicting George Zimmerman, Staff Sgt. Robert Bales and dozens of others the media holds out in one way or another. In those cases? The court of ATS public opinion convened, heard the media's stories and ruled guilt before anything more needed said....let alone anything in a courtroom. It seems "Innocent until proven guilty" ONLY matters when the accused is someone the person saying it PERSONALLY believes is innocent. Those deemed guilty by whatever is seen in a story? Well..... Countless threads show the level of hate and calls right up to their deaths ...ATS has been witness to. It's a regular thing, in fact.

Yet here...a man who had been holding two elderly people against their will as hostages the same afternoon as he died in a barricade he created....is ABSOLUTELY innocent and woe be anyone to suggest he may have actually done what he was killed for.

THIS is the level of pure hypocrisy this story seems to bring out right now...and why I'm walking clear away from any threads dealing with it. I don't have the temperament for the duality of values here. In one case it's "Off with their head ! ! !" In this one? "Oh..but but ..well..maybe someone ELSE killed those people ..and maybe someone JUST LIKE HIM terrorized that elderly couple or took part in police shootouts". Yeah.. Whatever.

I will remind some of their "Innocent until proven guilty!!!" nonsense the next time a U.S. Soldier is accused of something in a war zone to the near blood lust which has and does form up here.......so quickly forgetting anything about innocence without proof. Yeah... that's pretty situational for ethics or values at times.

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This fall from evidence based, factual debate where the point was to HUNT FOR the truth of a thing and not simply find facts to FIT AN AGENDA started in earnest with the CT Shooting and Sandy Hookers who have come to haunt the story like a bad ghost. It's carrying right into the near canonization of a cop killer based strictly on assumption, wishful thinking and the HOPE that maybe he is something other than the scumbag killer he was.

If ANYTHING aside from assumption and supposition existed....anything at all....to suggest Dorner was anything but a cop killer and major threat to society, I'd be interested. However, as with CT, facts are entirely secondary and irrelevant. Assumptions and just declarations of things to sound like fact fill the gap just fine for many, it seems ....and therein lay the fall of intelligent debate.

When Evidence is supplanted by supposition and proof is thrown aside for pure theory? I don't know how much is left to differentiate a debate from a National Enquirer story. Nothing in a factual sense, to be sure....and that's my whole point.

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Now I don't plan to see stars or flags for this. Given my experience on some other threads and topics lately, I fully expect to get flamed if not just ignored entirely. Such would be par for the course.....as the madness of declaration without reason marches on to really ruin the image and tone of a site I still love....but somehow? Not quite as much as I once did.

That's a sad realization to come to, but something has changed. The exodus of logic over lunacy and supported fact over superstition or supposition. That's what's changed.

- One Disillusioned Bunny

s& f wabbit tell it like it is

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

The hypocrisy and hero worship of a twisted, warped killer is sickening here.

I felt the same way with all the Chris Kyle worship on here.

As for the Dorner saga, I am not keen to all the facts but I do understand your concern.

In reality all topics that are discussed around here have facts that get twisted and misrepresented, it's just the way it is I guess.

Any point made can easily be countered with another news source or point of view or perception of the facts/opinions that are presented.

It gets frustrating at times but that's the nature of the beast...

some people watch too many hollywood movies and have limited real world experiences so it`s very easy for them to conceive of and believe all kinds of absurd things with very little, or no, actual proof or facts.

If it happened in a movie then it can probably happen in real life, right?

I'd flag you if I could.

This goes with media making mass murders famous and "cool". They say there is no evidence he did any of this. Where is hard evidence he didn't. YouTube videos some kid with way to much time made isn't sufficient.

I appreciate the replies on this guys. Stars out to those who came, indeed.

After careful consideration and some words of wisdom from a Mod I've come to respect and call a friend here, I've decided a break is in order. I'm getting a bit touchy on things and while the tone is changing around here, that isn't the whole issue and I'm pragmatic enough about myself to realize that. Some sanity maintenance and R&R away from politics, breaking news, bad news and general death and destruction is in order. (After all, it's a loooong hot summer we all have coming up. It'll be a very busy one, I'm thinking. Gotta be fresh)

So, rather than leave anyone wondering if I got snatched up by MiB's or perhaps a deep crevasse opened and swallowed me whole without a trace (That would be my luck lately..lol), I thought I'd note here that I'm 'Gone Fishin'' for a couple weeks at least.

Now I'll try real hard not to hook myself a Megalodon or anything. Of course, if I do and it doesn't eat me on the spot, I'll be sure to bring back pics to prove it happened.

Someone keep the trolls out of my carrot gardens? Thanks! (wave)