Desire-What you leave behind-The Creators Plan

Hey everyone, my name is Seth. I have an incredible passion for writing and informing people of knowledge I believe I have attained. I have no other purpose here other to inform and discuss, I am not saying I am right, just here to give people something to read to those who are interested.

"Everything in TIME passes because TIME PASSES"

"Desire is the Creator
Desire is the Destroyer
Desire is the Universe
Desireless is Liberation"

These two quotes are dereived from Be Here Now. They are very important and have a much much deeper meening than simply what they say.
I read Be Here Now for the first time maybe 4 years ago, at the time, it was just a read. I was still a confused Methodist raised child.

The book ment nothing to me at the time, I didn't grasp the message.
I now realize, it just wasn't my time. As stated in Be Here Now, life, everything, is all an unfolding process, compaired to a lotus flower.
An example, you cannot rip the cacoon from the caterpiller, it happens when the time is right. You will learn what you need to learn, when you are ready.

I have always been one for meditation. It has always interested me, and religion and everything that belongs in this forum, has always interested me.

I guess you could say my interest in the conspiracy of religion derived from the TV show Ancient Aliens.
I'm not saying this hasn't or has been debunked, everyone has their own opinions.

Anway, my first quote.
"Everything in TIME passes because TIME PASSES"
This is in reference to everything in the physical plane. In our Time/Space continuim,

I'v heard so many people say, when they lose a loved one, "I'll see them again someday."
I'm not trying to be offensive, and this is purely my opinion, but no, you will not, and you will not remember them.

I'll explain why, it just takes alot of explaining, so bare with me.

When you desire, or even just simply think. You are creating. Your mind is no different than subatomic particles, it is there, you just cannot see it. And, it exists in the physical plane, which is where we all reside.
This is the same with memories, they are in your mind, which is in the physical plane.
Example to verify, if we could not smell, we wouldn't think farts existed. We see our reality based on our sences.
It's humourous I supposed but it gets the point across.

"Everything in TIME passes because TIME PASSES"
After you pass your body (die) your conciousness/soul/energy/spirit WHATEVER you want to call it, is not in the physical plane, which is where your memories, and everything phyiscal, resided in.
Your memoires, experiences, thoughts, identity, exist IN TIME.
and "Everything in TIME passes because TIME PASSES"

The second quote.
"Desire is the Creator
Desire is the Destroyer
Desire is the Universe
Desireless is Liberation"

When I first read it, I just read simply
"Desire is the Creator
Desire is the Destroyer
Desire is the Universe
Desireless is Liberation"

In the book, that is the first lesson taught by Baba's guru.

Each line, I will just attempt to interperet.
As you all know, with advances in quantum physics and metaphysics, it is simply just proving what gurus have taught for thousands of years.
I wish I had the links to the documentaries I watched on these, they were previously posted in this forum, one was a 5 part 5 hour documentary.

"Desire is the Creator." "Desire is the Destroyer" - Below will attempt to interperet each line, cause they relate.
As stated in The Ra material, "The Creators" (the name they use) plan is based on desire.
The Science of Self Realization states if you desire meat, you will be incarnated as a lion, just as an example.
When you desire something, you want that something. When you lose that, you experience loss.

Desireless is liberation. In other words, freedom of attachment is liberation. Liberation meaning ENLIGHTENMENT. Krsna Concious, Christ concious, in the now, all synonyms for the same state of being.
Freedom of attachment to anything in the phyiscal plane, because remember Everything in time passes because TIME PASSES.

I am not going to interperet the Universe line because that is getting into very indepth metaphysics in that our own thoughts/desires create universes and thats why the universe is infinite and forever expanding.

I mentioned enlightment and the plan of "The Creator"
More on that. Again, enlightened, meaning simply free of desire. Free of attachment.

Now the Plan. I consider the "plan" a synonym for Karma.
The cycle that we are stuck in, is all based on our desires and attachments.

Example, you are greedy and desire money, you could be poor in your next incarnation. Etc.
That's why I consider this hell, because as long as you are not in "Chirst conciousness" you go to hell.

Hell being, the physical plane. Because, when you have desire, you are reincarnated on earth, and desire is considered a "sin" or the "destroyer".

Heaven, being when you are no longer reincarnated. How?
The quote, "Desireless is liberation" answers that.
Meaning, when you have freed yourself from attachment, and fully accept the here and now. You are not building karma, your not building a plan for your next life.

When you pass your body when you are "enlightened" you return to "GOD".
Which is simply not being reincarnted, and being one with universal conciosuness.
Which is Heaven, or liberation, or any term you want to use.

Notice I use terms and names from multiple religions, by doing this I'm trying to show the message BEHIND it all.

Thank you for reading, feel free to ask questions.
I'm not saying I'm right, no one knows. I'm just here to share my opinion to those who are interested.

-Seth

reply to post by Deyadorean


I have not read "Be Here Now," although I have seen it at several bookstores I frequent. If your relaying of messages from the book is accurate, then it sounds very much like the watered-down Buddhism which is so common to Western Civilization. Not that my statement is meant to be offensive, it is certainly not. However, the idea of removing desire, of embracing knowledge when you are ready, and the overall goal of escaping from the cycles of Karma and reincarnation are all doctrines from Buddhism picked up by Jains, and other Christian-Buddhist blends.

They don't quite cover everything Buddhism has to offer though, like the other three Noble Truths, or the Eight-Fold Path of enlightenment, or the chain of dependent origination.

If the message of "Be Here Now" is as you have stated, and it resonated with you, might I suggest "The Buddhist Bible" as your next read? The volume collects the works of many schools of thought surrounding Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, and general meditative and enlightening practices. It covers the Buddha's lessons, as well as other prominent philosophers who's works were intermixed to create a more complex, layered, patchwork towards betterment for the self. You would probably enjoy it.

As I've always said: that which is available in the West should be a springboard for seekers toward discovering the deeper truths found only in the origin point. Just as Wicca can be traced back to Theosophy, Paganism, and Hermetics; modern guru and enlightenment schools can be traced back to Buddhism. Often we find even more profound truths in the real origin, than in the child.

Good luck!

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


You mention being a western new age type of approach. Because of the simple fact you haven't read Be Here Now in making a poor assumption that you are not familiar with vedik liteterarature and knowledge. Which is ancient knowledge and is what I am interpreting. Such as the Gita, and lessons from the Gurus and Gurus of Maharaji. The knowledge goes back thousands years. And most of the ideas and quotes and ideas I use in this thread derive from those texts from thousands of years ago. So in my opinion it's not a classic new age approach, just a logical interpretations.

Thank you.
- Seth

reply to post by Deyadorean

As you all know, with advances in quantum physics and metaphysics, it is simply just proving what gurus have taught for thousands of years.

No, actually it's not. Those with 'guru beliefs' are re-writing those quantum and metaphysical laws in light of their beliefs. This is no proof - it's proving a lie as truth to you and them. 

Those gurus do not hold the truth. They believe that it is truth, but it's just the lie as old as this world. Just as above, they actively raise your desires for their fruit....mediation is but a trick  - you are told that you are divine - but that to realise this "truth", one must attain "spiritual enlightenment" through the practice of meditation in order to perceive (experience) the "truth" of this "truth". To a generation devoid of faith and instead indoctrinated to believe in the objectiveness of science, the perceptions and experiences that meditation brings "proves" the "truth". It IS all about the senses and how our senses and experiences can seemingly prove lies as truths. Adam and Eve. The rest is history. 

These yogis view the altered states of consciousness, as “higher” states of consciousness, as divine states, and the psychic powers developed are often seen as the awakening and developing “god-nature” of the individual. Again, they can "prove" the truth of what they claim if you only eat their fruit - hypnotise yourself. 

Everybody can attest that the normal state of mind is that our thoughts constantly wonder. Why? To prevent sel-hypnosis. The yogis on the other hand would have you believe that the natural state of mind is 'mindfulness', emptying the mind of everything but perhaps one repetitive chant or word. It is the most unnatural practice. Why does common sense go  out the window when it comes to believing these yogis? Because their "fruit" is attractive to the iniquity within man which strives to be god - not merely content being created in His Image and Likeness. The mystery of iniquity which Our Creator states nearly consumes the world in these last days.

Jesus told you that in the end of the age that the angels would bundle the tares to be burned. Can you not discern the fire spreading like a wildfire in these days, the boards filled with accounts of people duped into trying to 'open their chakras' experiencing the tremendous burning of heat and fire? But what do the yogis say? Just bear with because you'll know the truth once you get through it. What do the apostate charismatic preachers say? Heres some fire for you! Burn! Burn! What does the Holy Spirit declare? Those who perish never learned to love the truth, but instead, loved the lie more. The lying signs and wonders abound in these days, and nearly the whole world will believe them. They will throw aside their God given rational thought process for the mind of a beast. Yoga's end result is this: “Yoga is the progressive elimination of conscious- ness in order to secure pure Self-awareness. This consciousness must be reduced to ashes, its seeds sterilized so as to render all future consciousness impossible."
That's not Heaven, it's the fires of HELL.

If "everything in time passes because time passes" then that also includes enlightenment and the desireless state.

reply to post by Deyadorean


The writings of the Vedas and other Hindu literature are not really that old. Comparatively, to the literature that I draw my faith from (Sumerian, Akkadian-Babylonian) the Vedic literature is young, very young. But the core of my point still remains: most of what you outlined in your post is a western-world amalgamation of those ideas, which suspiciously lacks several other elements that Hinduism and Buddhism, in their natural state, reinforce.

Now, you're right, I have not read "Be Here Now," which is why I clearly stated I was drawing my assumptions off of your description of what the book says. Maybe it does delve into the other Noble Truths, the Eight-Fold Path, supplication and devotion to the cycles of creative and destructive energies, and other aspects of Indian religion. If it does, then OK, good, but your post did not give any indication that it did.

Which is why I offered what I did.

Anyway, your explanations (like the part featuring the "Ra Material," and how desiring meat reincarnates you as a lion) are Western variations on Eastern philosophy. Nowhere in Hindu, or Buddhist doctrines on Karma or Reincarnation do you come back as the thing you desire; you come back as the thing you deserve to be (if you come back at all).

Clearly you've taken the high road though, and have everything figured out. No need for anyone, or anything, to offer you a possible source of information you might also find illuminating. That must be a part of that desire-less, timeless, eternal consciousness which you've tapped into, eh?

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by WhoKnows100


While I don't agree with your interpretation, I will admit: this is the first time I have seen someone take a stand against meditation, that did not come from the angle that meditation, by clearing the mind, opens the way for demonic possession. Typically that is what I encounter from Christians when the topic of meditation emerges; that it is forbidden because a focused, and cleared mind, is an open space waiting for Satan to lay his wiles.

So, props to you for originality, even though we ultimately disagree.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Amen to that!

I'm not even a Christian but I see what you are saying.


Giving up on will/desire and keeping the mind "empty" staying focused on one "word/sound" in order to stop yourself from thinking is spiritual abuse.

We were created with NATURAL DESIRE, trying to stop all thought and have NO desires is going against nature...

I exist.
I am a part of existence.
Since I exist, being honest/natural/sincere is how I can play my role in existence most effectively...

Sure, people will say, "it isn't the 'real' you" or "that is just human nature - not spirit". Well, what am I experiencing right now? A HUMAN experience, so duh...

Again, I dies agree with alot of you.
I respect your opinion and thanks for the reply.
But It definetly does state in the Science of self realization and or the Gita, the lion reference is used.

I'm not missing the main point of Buddhism, the noble truths are stated in be here now. Which was written by baba ram dass in be here now, who's guru was maharaji, and keeps going back. Vedic literature is India's oldest, and even if yours is older, I'm still trying to get the point that THE MAIN MESSAGE OF IT ALL is just Be Here Now.
They are the giving the same messages as gurus have for thousands of years.

Thousands of years ago, MILLIONS, To be Desireless was liberation (enlightenment)
And now in advances in quantum physics, they are realizing the less stress a person has, the higher and faster our vibrational frequency,( if your familiar with the single dimension string theory) until your vibration/amplitude is fast enough to be pure light, that is enlightened. So I believe they knew this knowledge for thousands of years and has been lost throughout conspiracies in religion distorting there overall message.

Which is simply just, accept what you have, and free yourself from attachment. And you'll go to "heaven" or be " "enlightened" PURE LIGHT. The highest vibration you can have.

When I reference these books, I'm not saying I believe each word. Of course the Ra books are new age but it's still delivering the message of Be Here Now.
Which is the message behind it all.

Thank you for replies,
-Seth

reply to post by Deyadorean


Hinduism, at best, begins between 1700-1500 BCE. Those dates being the earliest which evidence of shrines, idols, and temples dedicated to deities like Varuna and Agni can be dated. Hinduism, in it's earliest incarnation, the Vedic period, was also greatly influenced by, and shared many qualities with, Indo-European cult faiths; a branch of religious belief which stretched much, much further into history.

The very early civilizations near-by (like the Indus Valley people) were not practicing enlightenment, or Kundalini Yoga, or Tantra, or the sublime union of gross body with pure consciousness. They were a peaceful agricultural society, who traded fabrics and food-stuffs with neighboring groups (like Sumer, Egypt, and others).

While the later doctrines of Hinduism (and it's successor, Buddhism) have a lot of interesting commentary, they are not, and were not, taught for "MILLIONS" of years. Similarly, all of those Guru's (including Ram Dass, who wrote "Be Here Now,") have been thoroughly revealed for the con-men, shams, and hypocrites that they are.

Seeing as you are a devoted acolyte to their ways, I doubt that last sentence was easily digested. Still, though, I have evidence to present to back up that claim, in the form of a book (conveinently available online) which details the fraudulent history of nearly all of the big-name Gurus in western civilization.

Stripping the Gurus is the book, and the chapter specifically covering Ram Dass can be found right here if you're interested.

To reiterate though, I have nothing against Buddhism, Hinduism, and their theologies. I happen to find many of them to be quite interesting. But the western world does not get the truth of the actual teachings. We only get the interpretation of faulty "Gurus" who cannot even hold themselves to their own codes of conduct.

~ Wandering Scribe

I appreciated you're reply. I'm still young (18)
We agree and disagree at some points,
Beside the point of the time periods.
I believe enlightenment, Christ consciousness, krsna consciousness,iberation.
Is attained when you have rid of your desires
And are completely happy with no stress etc.

All "emotions" drive from love or hate.
Hate lowers your amplitude. Hate including jealousy,desire, attachment, leading to loss, etc

Now love is just pure love. When you love people for the consciousness that they are. Not the costume that they are currently in.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
reply to post by Deyadorean

 

As you all know, with advances in quantum physics and metaphysics, it is simply just proving what gurus have taught for thousands of years.

No, actually it's not. Those with 'guru beliefs' are re-writing those quantum and metaphysical laws in light of their beliefs. This is no proof - it's proving a lie as truth to you and them. 

Those gurus do not hold the truth. They believe that it is truth, but it's just the lie as old as this world. Just as above, they actively raise your desires for their fruit....mediation is but a trick  - you are told that you are divine - but that to realise this "truth", one must attain "spiritual enlightenment" through the practice of meditation in order to perceive (experience) the "truth" of this "truth". To a generation devoid of faith and instead indoctrinated to believe in the objectiveness of science, the perceptions and experiences that meditation brings "proves" the "truth". It IS all about the senses and how our senses and experiences can seemingly prove lies as truths. Adam and Eve. The rest is history. 

These yogis view the altered states of consciousness, as “higher” states of consciousness, as divine states, and the psychic powers developed are often seen as the awakening and developing “god-nature” of the individual. Again, they can "prove" the truth of what they claim if you only eat their fruit - hypnotise yourself. 

Everybody can attest that the normal state of mind is that our thoughts constantly wonder. Why? To prevent sel-hypnosis. The yogis on the other hand would have you believe that the natural state of mind is 'mindfulness', emptying the mind of everything but perhaps one repetitive chant or word. It is the most unnatural practice. Why does common sense go  out the window when it comes to believing these yogis? Because their "fruit" is attractive to the iniquity within man which strives to be god - not merely content being created in His Image and Likeness. The mystery of iniquity which Our Creator states nearly consumes the world in these last days.

Jesus told you that in the end of the age that the angels would bundle the tares to be burned. Can you not discern the fire spreading like a wildfire in these days, the boards filled with accounts of people duped into trying to 'open their chakras' experiencing the tremendous burning of heat and fire? But what do the yogis say? Just bear with because you'll know the truth once you get through it. What do the apostate charismatic preachers say? Heres some fire for you! Burn! Burn! What does the Holy Spirit declare? Those who perish never learned to love the truth, but instead, loved the lie more. The lying signs and wonders abound in these days, and nearly the whole world will believe them. They will throw aside their God given rational thought process for the mind of a beast. Yoga's end result is this: “Yoga is the progressive elimination of conscious- ness in order to secure pure Self-awareness. This consciousness must be reduced to ashes, its seeds sterilized so as to render all future consciousness impossible."
That's not Heaven, it's the fires of HELL.

Meditation is about letting go, my friend.

Sooner or later you will lose the consciousness as yourself through mortal death.
Without your body and mind you are pure awareness.
Self realization through meditation will give you that knowledge.

Is it bad? You decide

reply to post by Deyadorean


I've never been one to consider age a factor in anything. Living a productive life can happen to anyone, at any time. Your ethics are what define you. I was 14 when I began studying the spiritual prism, even younger than you.

As long as you're earnest in your seeking, and never just accept something because of who says it, or how you feel about it, you'll come to the right place in the end.

If that place happens to fall somewhere between Hindu doctrines and Buddhist ideals, then so be it.

Just don't stop with pop spirituality. Ram Dass, Krishnamurti, Adi Da (who I got to meet at a lecture once) are never who they present themselves to be.

The corruptibility of spiritually active people is a sad fact of the field.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by dodol


Out of curiosity, why do you think that any type of awareness exists, if consciousness does not?

My understanding is that our awareness (both as an individual, and of our surroundings) comes from our being creatures of consciousness. When we sleep, or are anesthetized, we lose that consciousness. In the surgeries I've had, or the dreamless sleeps I've experienced, I did not become "all aware," but "unaware" instead.

Thoughts?

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by dodol

 

Out of curiosity, why do you think that any type of awareness exists, if consciousness does not?

My understanding is that our awareness (both as an individual, and of our surroundings) comes from our being creatures of consciousness. When we sleep, or are anesthetized, we lose that consciousness. In the surgeries I've had, or the dreamless sleeps I've experienced, I did not become "all aware," but "unaware" instead.

Thoughts?

~ Wandering Scribe

For me, Consciousness is when we are conscious to be something, someone, somebody. Be it a snake, human, greys, etc. Consciousness give us avatar (influenced by mind or soul). Consciousness makes us believe from we are different beings.

While awareness is when we are aware we are NOT what those avatars (ego) want us to believe to be. For example if your avatar is a human named John, you are aware that you are not John.
You are the Experiencer.

If you still believe u are that human u experience, your awareness is probably still half asleep.
When u start to realize you are not her or him, you will start to become aware you exist beyond this world.
In my case, I am aware that I never move. I am aware of the energy moving inside my 'avatar'. I can imagine myself without body and mind, and so on

Imho, There is only one type of awareness. The higher your awareness is, the more you are aware of things around you, thats including your avatar

reply to post by Deyadorean


Nice thought on desire, Deyadorean. Thx for sharing..

What can be the origin of desires? When is a desire not magical. Magic can easily become undone.. ? When everything sucks and you have no clue about what is going on. Magic? It sucks.

Sorry for what seems to be depressing input.

Desire is the creator. The creator is also the destroyer. Desireless means seperated from God.

reply to post by dodol


I'm a bit confused by the way you stated your position, but I think I understand enough of it. Let me know if I have this wrong, but, you're suggesting that...

Being conscious, and being aware, are two different things. Consciousness, or existing within a body (what you refer to as an avatar) is a secondary, or tertiary state-of-being. Awareness is our primary state, and if we are/become aware, then we somehow transcend our physical body, detaching from consciousness, which, seemingly, arises from the spectrum of emotions?

You're talking about a type of moksha, satori, or nirvana here, aren't you?

My question then would be: how did you end up within your avatar at all?

If you were, or are, a part of the "aware," how did you even end up muddled into an individualistic body? For a perfected being to even consider a body composed of emotion, desire, or craving, means that such elements are not actually voided by ascending up the ladder of awareness, but that they are just as existent there, as here. Otherwise, the temptation of tangibility would never have arisen.

Thoughts?

~ Wandering Scribe

I have a question for the participators of this thread.

All is desire. If not, why did you do all you've done and did?, right..
Putting flowers on the table was a desire. To put your socks on has been a desire. ..?

Some desires one shouldn't do.

Good desires, bad desires.. still desires. Right people!!

?

reply to post by Angle

Originally posted by Angle

Desire is the creator. The creator is also the destroyer. Desireless means seperated from God.

The Greek Myths say that Chaos was there first, eternal and then Eros (Desire/Passion) began to exist as the first god. Then that created Light, and Heaven.

When you think about it, desire MUST be first. Even if you believe in the biblical creation story, it starts with God having an INTENTION ("Let there be light").

It is unnatural to not have a desire, for even survival is a desire. You only need food and water because you WANT to survive, so needs stem from wants.

reply to post by arpgme


Very good point, with the Orphic creation line from Greek mythology. I've never looked at Chaos developing into Eros that way before, but it is true. Almost all creation myths do feature desire—whether called so literally, or not—as one of the prime factors.

In Sumer you have An and Nammu, the sky and the sea, who mix together because they're both in constant motion, and from their movement comes Enlil, Enki, and Ninhursag: air, water, and earth.

In Babylonian mythology you have Apsu and Tiamat who want to mix their waters, sweet and fresh, and this results in all of the Babylonian pantheon.

In the Ennead of Egypt you have another desire, that between Geb and Nut, earth and sky, which lead to all other life being created. So much, in fact, that Shu, the air, has to get between them to dampen their desires.

In the Ogdoad of Egypt you also have desire as a primary force. The ever-present states: the abyss, the air, darkness, and space all desiring to be active and in motion. The unbalanced nature of these forces results in the creation of Ra, and then reality.

The best example I can think of though, also Egyptian, comes from the Ptah creation scheme. Ptah would desire something in his heart (which manifested as the solar-god Horus), and then he would speak this desire with his tongue (which manifested as the wisdom-god Thoth), and finally create it on his potters wheel. Desire being the initial force still.

Thanks for providing me with a new angle for these old myths, arpgme.

~ Scribe