No Proof is NO PROOF for Inexistence of God.

Originally posted by BlindBastards
Aside from fairytales in a book, where’s the indisputable evidence that God exists?

Did you even read the OP?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by usernameconspiracy
There is no proof that God exists. There is no proof that God does not exist. That's why it's called FAITH. It can't be proved or disproved. It falls outside of evidence or science. You either choose to have faith or you choose not to have faith.

Saying that God definitely exists is just as ignorant as saying that God definitely does not exist. Nobody can reasonably demonstrate that either way.

However you only need one piece of evidence to know God exists, and you need omniscience and omnipresence to know God doesn't exist anywhere in the universe or in any dimension. One position needs just one piece of evidence, the other position requires absolute knowledge.

That's why one cannot prove a negative.

edit on 12-2-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

You can never KNOW god exists, but you can believe in its existence. Belief and knowing are entirely different things. The only thing you can ever KNOW is your own existence, everything else is belief and acceptance. With that being said, as much as you want to think you know god exists, you don't; you can't.

Why not Zeus? Apollo? Neptune?

Because atheists just believe in one less god than you do.

Until people stop lying to both themselves and their offspring, things on this planet will never improve. We can't cope with our challenges until we are willing to face the truth of them, whatever they might be. 2000 year old overwrought, over-edited, mistranslated writings by shepherds and fishermen aren't helping matters, especially when clung to by people who actually 'believe in' electricity, bacteria and physics, all things the god of the bible apparently had no clue about.

I believe in a supreme, supreme being called Mortimaximus Nagahili Wastapunis or just Mort. One thing to understand about Mort is that he is not the most agile god type being. You see, it so happens that one millennia Mort was hanging out in the multi-verse trying to impress a fairly attractive goddess. While strolling along he was so smitten by the goddess he lost his omniscient abilities, tripped, hit his head and created mankind. He was so embarrassed by this mistake that to this day he denies having a hand, or thought, in the creation of humans and allows for other minor omnipotent beings to have their way with his uncredited creation.

Most of these minor omnipotents (i.e. Zeus, Shun, Thor, Kukulkán, FSM, etc...) use the Earth to get a few laughs and after a few hundred years or so just get bored with the 'worship me cause I am so great' schtick, that they move on to blowing up stars to see who can create the most mind blowing nebulas.

However, there are a couple of these minor omnipotents that have an 'ego' thing going on. The current challenge is to have their particular whorshippers berate and kill the whorshippers of the competing omnipotent in the most creative way possible. The only problem is that they are dealing with people whose latest creative endeavor was coming up with 'Honey Boo Boo'.

So now we have a planet with a single species who don't use the brains Mort gave them. They say stuff like 'you pray to the wrong omnipotent, so now I have to kill you' or 'you twist your spaghetti around a fork instead of sucking up by the strands, so now I have to kill you' and lots of other stuff that usually ends with 'so now I have to kill you'. (Side Note: Can you really blame Mort for not wanting to acknowledge mankind?)

Currently, the running bet is that mankind will last for eons to come. Not because they are so evenly matched in knowledge and power, but because their incompetence and lack of common sense reign supreme. Sigh, if they could but use reason and logic... but what fun would that be?

logical7

existence of supernatual beings doesnt prove existence of God anyway.

Didn't say that it did. Hey, I'm being a sport. If there are no supernatural beings, then there are no gods. If you couldn't prove supernatural beings, you'd be out of luck proving gods. I'm giving you supernatural beings, free of charge. All you have to do is to address the question, which I repeat

By what means would a mortal human being distinguish between a god and another supernatural being?

It may just increase the chances that God exists by making us humble that we dont know everything.

We don't know everything. That's a fact. That fact doesn't increase the chances of an uncertainty turning out one way instead of another. Humility might also be shown by recognizing that maybe gods aren't interested enough in the likes of us to speak to us, or to appoint spokesbeings to speak with us on their behalf. Humility doesn't increase the chances of an uncertainty turning out one way instead of another, either.

The claim of any supernatural being to be god can be examined much easily. If it has limitations then its not god.

That's not quite what I asked. Gabriel, for example, didn't claim to be Allah, and even if he did, Mohammed would have had no way to test Gabriel's limits, and even if Mohammed did, I have no way to critique Mohammed's methodology or verify his results.

Netiher Gabriel, nor any supernatural being, has physical limits. So, how do I test whether he has any limits at all?

BTW, I am not accepting the test. Zeus is surely a god if he exists, and he does have limits. For example, he will die someday (he killed his father, after all). But, I'll go with this partial test rather than nothing.

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by usernameconspiracy
There is no proof that God exists. There is no proof that God does not exist. That's why it's called FAITH. It can't be proved or disproved. It falls outside of evidence or science. You either choose to have faith or you choose not to have faith.

Saying that God definitely exists is just as ignorant as saying that God definitely does not exist. Nobody can reasonably demonstrate that either way.

However you only need one piece of evidence to know God exists, and you need omniscience and omnipresence to know God doesn't exist anywhere in the universe or in any dimension. One position needs just one piece of evidence, the other position requires absolute knowledge.

That's why one cannot prove a negative.

edit on 12-2-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

You can never KNOW god exists, but you can believe in its existence. Belief and knowing are entirely different things. The only thing you can ever KNOW is your own existence, everything else is belief and acceptance. With that being said, as much as you want to think you know god exists, you don't; you can't.

This is not true I KNOW god exists. I cannot make you KNOW God but you can get to KNOW God for yourself.

reply to post by ObservingTheWorld


Little did Mort know that he just like the other minor omnipotent beings.. he also just dream of the giant tortoise that is swimming the cosmic ocean.

reply to post by luciddream


How could I ever forget the Giant Tortoise. In fact it was part of the Great Tortoise's shell over which Mort tripped.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by logical7

 

Originally posted by logical7
Who made it happen? The 1st cause that started it all? The cause which doesnt have a prior cause?

I don't know... and neither do you. But I don't have to make up any stories about it. I'm comfortable with not knowing until we find out.

I understand that you are not.

i have kind of found it theoretically and then matched it with what i am told about God and made up my belief. Ofcourse you have a different approach, a bit laid back, nothing wrong in it objectively but if you ask a theist, say me! there would be something wrong but i would refrain from saying it
its a personal quest.

reply to post by luciddream

Its your choice to believe in tales passed down from generation (not saying everything they said is false) or believe in some things with evidence (science).

yes it is, but why 'either' or 'or'? What makes you think God is unscientific? Because if there is God then He must be a Master in all fields simultaneously, He created them!

People that understand science knows that it will change and we will adjust to that change. Even if Science and in this cause Theory of Evolution has been somehow proven wrong in the future, it would not make religion the default of origin.

i agree, if one theory out of two fail, it doesnt make the other right by default but i'l tell you that theory of evolution is more unscientific than scientific.

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy

Every part of your body has a purpose, and that purpose is to aid your survival.

and whats the purpose of the whole body, if the body parts play a role in the whole. What role do we play in the whole as we are a tiny part of a system too or are we just purposeless erratic beings while other systems are in harmony, that doesnt make sense, does it? A perfectly evolving universe giving birth to humans with conciousness that can cause disharmony is a discrepency. No?
What you think?

reply to post by eight bits


the claim of a supernatural being to being god can be tested by examining the evidence against what i theoretically know or can deduce about God
1)Can it create something new?
2)Can it know what i am thinking?
3)does it have complete knowledge of whatever is happening everywhere?
these for the starters, they dont prove being God but not doing this can disprove the claim.

Originally posted by KaelemJames

As many believe the Bible is just a fairytale we need to remember that His Son walked the earth without a Bible. He, as many others, meditated, and that's how they were close to Him.

Your trust cannot be put into man or their word.

I quite agree that people shouldn't trust man.
Jeremiah 17:5 This is what the LORD says: "Cursed are those who put their trust in mere humans, who rely on human strength and turn their hearts away from the LORD.

BUT, I don't agree with what you said about Jesus walking the earth without scripture, here's why:

Mark 12:24 Jesus replied, "Your mistake is that you don't know the Scriptures, and you don't know the power of God.

Luke 24:45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.

Luke 24:27 Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, explaining from all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

Mark 2:25 Jesus said to them, "Haven't you ever read in the Scriptures what David did when he and his companions were hungry?

Mark 12:10 “Have you not even read this scripture: 'The stone that the builders rejected has become the head of the corner,' “

Matthew 19:4 "Haven't you read the Scriptures?" Jesus replied. "They record that from the beginning 'God made them male and female.'

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'"

Matthew 4:4 But Jesus told him, "No! The Scriptures say, 'People do not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

Matthew 4:7 Jesus responded, "The Scriptures also say, 'You must not test the LORD your God.'"

John 5:39 "You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!

Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

reply to post by logical7


zero proof is pretty compelling none the less.

reply to post by Wonders


Jesus was not called the son of god during his lifetime. That didnt happen until about three hundred years after he died. Jesus did not claim to be the son of god. He only claimed to be a teacher a rabbi.

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy
WRONG
I know my existance. I know my families. I know the street I live on, I know the country I live in. I know the people I work with. I know that there is a country called Japan even though I've never been there. I know there is a moon even though I've never been there. I know what my eyes see, what my ears hear, what my mouth tastes, what my hands feel. I know a lot more than my own existance. Get real would ya.

Originally posted by karen61560
reply to post by Wonders

 

Jesus was not called the son of god during his lifetime. That didnt happen until about three hundred years after he died. Jesus did not claim to be the son of god. He only claimed to be a teacher a rabbi.

please lets not make it a christian thread, i know Wonders started it. I request you both to keep on the topic. Thanks

logical7

1)Can it create something new?

I can do that. So what?

I think you must have meant something more than just "new," but I am unsure what you had in mind. And don't forget I need to verify this creation's reality, source, novelty and whatever else.

2)Can it know what i am thinking?

Carnivals are full of people who say they can do that, and they convince some people that they actually can. It's also a staple of exorcism lore, and the hypothetical beings involved there don't appear to be gods.

Why couldn't Jinn do that, or save a step, think something while in your mind and have you think it's your thought, and then tell you what it was?

3)does it have complete knowledge of whatever is happening everywhere?

How would I verify that? I am physically limited. The quantum mechanical stuff will alone forever elude me, as will things happening too far away.

If the being has no physical limitations, or even just fewer than I have, then it can do things that I can't verify whether it fulfilled the specification or not. Just being able to move both ways in a fourth dimension will solve lots of "knowledge" problems.

they dont prove being God but not doing this can disprove the claim.

Not quite. "I am not interested in proving myself to you. I exist, I have fewer physical constraints than you do, and I am happy for you to observe me however you like so long as it amuses me to converse and interact with you. But I am a god, and you're not, so I will only do what you say if it pleases me to do it."

That doesn't prove the being isn't a god. Believers have their petitionary prayers left ungranted all the time.

You make a faulty leap of logic here. Who says that god has to be all powerful? Isn't that a human assumption and definition of what a god should be? Why is god singular? Isn't that once again human limitations placed on a subject that man would essentially know nothing about?

In essence there can never be any proof an ultimate god exists without first determining who and what god really is. Then you can begin to build your evidence. Everything before or after is pure speculation and nothing more.

reply to post by logical7

IMO, there is an ultimate "source" that created Everything. We are their creations. I honor my ultimate creator not the fairytale God, Yahweh/Jesus and many other arechetypes. There is no other proof than the bible and some other stories of no actual provable content, there just isnt.

I'm a let you know on a little secret. Come Closer...



....................





You are a GOD yourself. You don't need to worship anything outside yourself.