Anatomy of a Scam

So here's the problem.

If the US is a corporation as most of us would agree, the only answer would then be Maritime Law is the law of the land.

A corporation would not have jurisdiction over you otherwise, unless you are contracting with it.


Look the whole freeman thing or whatever, is what it is. Unless you know exactly what they are saying to you, you will be steamrolled and you'll go to jail or lose property. Interacting with them is consent, its the contract. So, yeah, people screw up. Its a game, one we're destined to lose.



Without the most basic understandings of what has happened, this conversation is dead.

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by fourthmeal

 

Huge difference in our links my good friend

Your links are YouTube videos

My links are SCOTUS and Federal Court Rulings

Actually in my links were cases that proved my... uh.. case. But this is getting all out of hand. If you think a Corporation can operate in the jurisdiction of Constitutional/common law, we're screwed. It can't.

reply to post by fourthmeal


on the contrary, the "trustees" claimed there was quadrillions of dollars in gold and, in an effort to clarify the lunacy of this quantity, the image of a mile wide block of gold was offered up. Tell me, since you know so much about this gold, how big would you say a several quadrillion dollar pile of gold would be?

and please stop saying it isn't about the gold. When these pseudo trustees announced, via their WordPress press release (and the kabuki guy) that they were foreclosing and quadrillions of dollars in gold waiting for us all, they made it all about the gold.

the means of procuring this fictitious pile is additional nonsense but the gold is what it's about.

reply to post by fourthmeal


on the contrary, the "trustees" claimed there was quadrillions of dollars in gold and, in an effort to clarify the lunacy of this quantity, the image of a mile wide block of gold was offered up. Tell me, since you know so much about this gold, how big would you say a several quadrillion dollar pile of gold would be?

and please stop saying it isn't about the gold. When these pseudo trustees announced, via their WordPress press release (and the kabuki guy) that they were foreclosing and quadrillions of dollars in gold waiting for us all, they made it all about the gold.

the means of procuring this fictitious pile is additional nonsense but the gold is what it's about.

Originally posted by fourthmeal
So here's the problem.

If the US is a corporation as most of us would agree, the only answer would then be Maritime Law is the law of the land.

A corporation would not have jurisdiction over you otherwise, unless you are contracting with it.


Look the whole freeman thing or whatever, is what it is. Unless you know exactly what they are saying to you, you will be steamrolled and you'll go to jail or lose property. Interacting with them is consent, its the contract. So, yeah, people screw up. Its a game, one we're destined to lose.



Without the most basic understandings of what has happened, this conversation is dead.

The conversation was dead before it began because you are the one that is listening to fraudsters and not using anything to back yourself up but more fraud..

Then you talk down to all of us in an attempt to make us uneasy and try to double think ourselves (maybe he is smarter look at how he talks down at us)

And in the end, all you are doing is digging your hole deeper... We've all posted links upon links to legit stuff that disproves your whole argument.. you are stuck on this Admiralty Law thing which simply is not the case..

Like I stated before I field a lot of calls every single week from people who come across this info on the web and decide to see if it's legal before they go out and try it, and I have to break the news to them, that if they do they would be subject to fine and/or arrest for their trouble. It's not the end of the world that it's not true, but realize that by continuing to purport that it is, you are starting down a path that would not be advisable.

reply to post by fourthmeal

Without the most basic understandings of what has happened, this conversation is dead.

Until you are able to comprehend that the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, yes indeed this conversation would in fact be done

It is a very simple concept

Article VI
Article. VI.

All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Bolding Mine of course

Sorry but you are simply 100% wrong

There is no misunderstanding here on the parts of anyone except you

Sometimes it is best to just accept that when so many can and do show proof one is mistaken, one should just accept it

Sometimes

Semper

This is a subject I spent years debunking, before I plain got tired of saying the same things over and over again. Besides, there are brighter minds than mine here already. However, you really do seem like a nice young guy and you strike me has having a lot of heart. So I will make two quick points that haven't been tabled directly yet.

First of all. The picture of you with your kid. You do know that the FBI considers the Sovereign citizen movement as a form of domestic terrorism. Right? That is something you truly should think about because, man, no amount of gold in the world is worth one day away from ones kid.

Secondly... When I did spend time debunking this subject I was invariably directed to videos of supposed Freemen clearing courtrooms with their theatrics an their demands. I never saw a single one that did not end the same way - with a very subtle an unmentioned shot of legal documents that showed the defendant did not win his case - but was found against in summary judgement. Summary judgement is a 100% loss - as bad as it gets. IE if the person would have simply begged for mercy they might well have ended up with less of a judgement against them.

If you are on other sites where they are mocking the advice you are being given here. I honestly advise you to sit back and think about it. We gain nothing by going out of our way to try and tell you what we've learned over years of experience. I am just a guy - but there are people talking to you in this thread with credentials that would knock your socks off if they opted to share them with you. You are getting some pretty high powered advice, all out of the kindness of their hearts.

What, if anything, do the people mocking them stand to gain from you?

So wait, before going to another subject and muddying this further.

We agree that the US is a corporation. Yes?

Originally posted by Hefficide

This is a subject I spent years debunking, before I plain got tired of saying the same things over and over again. Besides, there are brighter minds than mine here already. However, you really do seem like a nice young guy and you strike me has having a lot of heart. So I will make two quick points that haven't been tabled directly yet.

First of all. The picture of you with your kid. You do know that the FBI considers the Sovereign citizen movement as a form of domestic terrorism. Right? That is something you truly should think about because, man, no amount of gold in the world is worth one day away from ones kid.

Secondly... When I did spend time debunking this subject I was invariably directed to videos of supposed Freemen clearing courtrooms with their theatrics an their demands. I never saw a single one that did not end the same way - with a very subtle an unmentioned shot of legal documents that showed the defendant did not win his case - but was found against in summary judgement. Summary judgement is a 100% loss - as bad as it gets. IE if the person would have simply begged for mercy they might well have ended up with less of a judgement against them.

If you are on other sites where they are mocking the advice you are being given here. I honestly advise you to sit back and think about it. We gain nothing by going out of our way to try and tell you what we've learned over years of experience. I am just a guy - but there are people talking to you in this thread with credentials that would knock your socks off if they opted to share them with you. You are getting some pretty high powered advice, all out of the kindness of their hearts.

What, if anything, do the people mocking them stand to gain from you?

I won't be intimidated by the FBI or otherwise. I know who I am, and what I am. I never said I am part of any movement, but just the very words you say should give you enough for you to be able to say, "enough, this needs to end" when it comes to what Domestic Terrorism is. Choosing to be who are you and choosing to be free ends up being Domestic Terrorism. Now if that doesn't prove my case, I don't know what does. That's not Constitutional!

Not to take away from your years of debating this, but I do believe you've seen the freeman who stated his rights, and the judge BOWED and left the courtroom, and the man left without issue, right? I have no doubt that, if you consent in any way, you'll get the book thrown at you. I've never been to court over these matters, I have never suggested what to do in court, and I don't intend to. But no matter what happens in court, there is right and wrong. Legal/lawful and the opposite. What I'm getting to is that If one has no fear, what will they find? The truth?

My signature was removed and that pretty much was the litmus test I was waiting for to decide what to do with ATS.

Originally posted by fourthmeal
My signature was removed and that pretty much was the litmus test I was waiting for to decide what to do with ATS.

In detail, what do you believe this "test" proved?

reply to post by forgetmenot


That being able to express what I believe in, peacefully, will be ignored and I will have no such thing here. I put up a signature with a link to the audio of an OPPT call, one that was done on-air live in California, on FM radio. In other words, not just on the internet in some blog. And that signature was removed just a little while ago. It was the test that I needed to prove to me that ATS is not what I thought it was.

A seed to think about:
When you guys agree that the US is a corporation, and then believe it still has a Constitutional law of the land, you contradict yourself completely. A corporation cannot have jurisdiction. There is incontrovertible proof that it is a corporation. Now what you do from there is up to you. It gets sticky because a lot of people have fallen along the way. And that makes for a nasty subject to talk about.

At any rate, it is clear we are going to go nowhere, because you do not accept that someone could be aware of this as truth. My recommendation as I suggested before is to just let this ride, and watch what happens. If it has legs then changes will soon come about and we can joke about it . But if you are expecting 10B to land in your lawn, you've completely missed the point. Many here have. I did at first too.

Just because we've had a go at it here and it has created some animosity, don't close off to the information regarding this when it comes in from sources you consider viable. We all have our sources we consider viable, and at some point you'll have to handle this in your own way, in your own time.

For the record I never talked down to anybody here or meant any harm. If Ego's went to battle then it was not intended but we're human so that can happen. Just know I'm a peaceful soul, after the truth, and nothing will stop me in that.

With that, I'll go ahead and resign from this thread, and go dark on ATS about it. I am really, really disappointed you guys removed my signature, that was quite unfortunate.

Originally posted by fourthmeal
So wait, before going to another subject and muddying this further.

We agree that the US is a corporation. Yes?

NO we do not agree upon that which is part of the scam, they try to tell you that to get you to think that what you are doing is legal, when in fact it is not. That's the part you don't seem to understand..

reply to post by vkey08


It's a misunderstanding ( deliberate or otherwise ) of the 1871 law that combined Washington and Georgetown into an incorporated area controlled by Congress. A ten mile zone around the Capitol It is a myth - not to mention one that is not even applicable any longer as that legislation was reversed in 1973.

But whatcha gonna do?

reply to post by vkey08


And what is it that I am doing, exactly? How is going after the truth illegal? You make so many assumptions, that I'm talking down to you, or that I'm after your emotions, and now that I am "doing something". I am here, typing on a computer, after work. That's it.

BTW, in this radio show that just finished, the whole thing is explained in ways I can't properly say, but you can properly hear. And with that, I'm dark on the subject until more information has come out. Clearly we are at an impasse until more information solidifies the subject.

Here's the link to the radio show where they talk about the Australian Government being a corporation and a person who was just trying to get a car imported found out the truth and did something about it, and where Heather talks about exactly how the UCC filings matter to the rest of the world (Principal-Agent Doctrine is her words, I believe but I'm still listening), and you can decide for yourself. EVERYONE must decide for themselves.

www.blogtalkradio.com...

And like I said, with that I'm going dark on the subject for now and for a while. Much friction has been caused over this, and I am not a high-friction person (as a trainer, I am the opposite actually), so let's just let the events unfold.

reply to post by fourthmeal


But see, the problem is that you did talk down to everyone. Over and over and over. Heff wasn't kidding that there was some good advice being given to you, and you just seemed to ignore that which was being said over and over, in favor of sites that have no basis in fact, and will get you in trouble if you continue to do that which you are putting forward.

I've seen that "freeman/judge" thing, what you don't know about that was that as the "freeman' was walking out of the courtroom he was arrested, something like the one you showed the YouTube of that was killed trying to take a weapon from a cop during a domestic call. You don't show or talk about the whole story, just the bits and pieces that fit your narrative.

So maybe we can put it in plain English for you, using bullet points to help you understand.

1) The "freeman" movement, is one of the most dangerous movements on the planet.
2) The argument that the United States is a corporation, and that you are collateral of said, is simply not true.
3) Your birth certificate is simply that, a record of your birth, there are no mysterious numbers and codes that allow it to be used as collateral on debt, OR that you can use to somehow pay off bills using Accepted For Value or any UCC filings.
4) A Trust, must have notarized signatures and be filed in the the state that it is made, failure to do so nullifies the trust, and how that one was signed, may border on the illegal.
5) Writing your name as John: of Whatever: does not dismiss your consent to follow the laws of the land, we have rules and regulations for a reason, if you don't like them, move.
6) Names were put in all caps on Birth Certificates and other Official Documents to help early computers read them, early OCR software wasn't as precise as we have nowadays.
7) there is no magic document you can file nor is there any magic phrase you can utter that will in court absolve you of having to submit to their jurisdiction, there's no such thing as stating "I am a sovereign I don't have to follow your laws"
8) Can only say this so many times: The United States is NOT under Admiralty Law, we are a Constitutional Republic, and the highest law of this land is that document. While some civil codes are holdovers of common law, it is not English common law it is actually French in most cases.
9) There is no such thing as Lawful Money nor is there a way to endorse a check, or a Federal Reserve Note that either makes it unloanable or gives you anything other than new FRN's in return.
and finally 10) The Uniform Commercial Code is only for the United States of America, and in fact differs from State to State. It is not some extra-planetary code that supersedes other laws.

I hope that you actually take the time to research these things properly rather than running away. I agree with the deletion of your signature as in the T&C's it states that if you are linking to a site off ATS, you MUST get permission to do so first, and since you put it in, most likely without permission, well, then you need to slow down and realize that's probably why.

Heff wasn't kidding about those of us responding knowing our stuff, I just hope our words haven't fallen upon deaf ears..

Originally posted by fourthmeal
We agree that the US is a corporation. Yes?

No. The US has a corporation, like most other governments, however it is NOT a corporation.

Originally posted by fourthmeal
but I do believe you've seen the freeman who stated his rights, and the judge BOWED and left the courtroom, and the man left without issue, right?

Wrong, how about showing us this video?

Originally posted by Springer
reply to post by fourthmeal

 

What we're going to do is throw threads about this "topic" into the HOAX forum where they belong. Like Crakeur said, if our one mile cubed chunk of gold shows up we will of course apologize and celebrate. In the mean time we will not be a venue to promote things that if believed and followed, can cause financial harm to our members and visitors.

Springer...

On a (somewhat) related note, if we received that giant chunk of gold people would admire it, even love it, then begin to question the value of everything gold. In short just before the chunk arrival would be the time to SELL all of your gold holdings.

Originally posted by fourthmeal
So here's the problem.

If the US is a corporation as most of us would agree, the only answer would then be Maritime Law is the law of the land.

I don't think we agree it's a corporation.

Corporations are sub-entities that are created under the rules of a larger governing body (nation.) Corporations in the United States cannot negotiate treaties, make state or national laws, create and set the laws for other corporations, cannot create or maintain standing armies, cannot set up court systems, cannot approve or set national policy.

Furthermore, rules on "what a corporation can do" vary from country to country. A government can "nationalize" all corporations owned by foreigners in its country and take all their facilities and resources. A corporation cannot take over foreign corporations without their consent.

Governments can do everything a corporation can, and more -- just as automobiles can do everything that a bicycle can (and more.) But automobiles aren't bicycles, and governments aren't corporations.

Furthermore, this scenario assume a few things which are not true:
* that all governments are just like the United States (they aren't. Try Cuba or North Korea on for size)
* that there is a universal law called "common law" Common law ONLY consists of cases settled in courts of law within each specific country (which, by the way, corporations can't do) and does not include laws such as the tax code, speed limit, licensing, and a lot of other things.
* that the common (court-derived) law of the United States is the same as the one for Canada (not true (it's similar, but not the same)) and Iraq (not true) and Egypt (not true) and Iran (not true) and Sudan (not true), etc.
* that common law supersedes statutory law and regulatory law (not true)
* that admiralty law (which only deals with activities on the oceans) applies to land. In fact, NO admiralty law of any country applies to affairs that take place within the country. (here is the list of countries which have an admiralty law. You can look up the differences there)
* that US admiralty law is something that all countries obey. The truth is, that each country with access to the ocean has an admiralty law, and those which don't (like Tibet) don't have admiralty laws.
* that actions filed in a US court, which relate to case (trial) law in the United States are will be respected and upheld for the entire world (including Mexico and Vatican City.)

The documents make some assumptions about nations and cultures and laws that simply don't hold true.