FlyersFan's Quick Guide to Papal Policial Parties

Some quick facts to keep in mind over the next month or so as the Catholic Church elects a new pope …

Americans have Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, etc.
The College of Cardinals has parties of political groupings as well.

The three (some say four) main parties in the College of Cardinals

The Border Patrol Party – Cardinals who are theologically conservative. Their concerns are chiefly the impact of relativism and secularization on Catholics and the Church. They are concerned about the psychological and cultural impact and how many Catholics are Catholic in name only but consider themselves to be other things first … like if someone considered themselves to be more American than Catholic. (at least that’s my take) The Border Patrol party is very interested in the integrity of the rites and rituals. They also see Islam as an aggressive missionary religion that threatens Christianity. Joseph Ratzinger, who is now Pope Benedict, was the head of the Border Patrol Party.

The Salt of the Earth party – Not into theological debates. They are more into taking care of major social issues like poverty, abortion and war. The Salt of the Earth party. This group wants to lower barriers between the Church and, in my opinion, water down the stricter parts of Catholicism so as to be more appealing to the citizens of the world. They are ‘doers’ … they ‘do good unto others’ by getting out there and working and making bridges that way. There are two groups within this group.

The right wing in the Salt of the Earth party has the ideology of ‘integralism’, which means they believe that the politics and culture of society should be wholly in accord with Catholic teachings. (like you’d see in Catholic-Spanish countries in South American and Mexico). They think that church teaching should automatically become civil law. Example – American integralists support school vouchers and state funding for private religious schools. They want to weaken separation of church and state.

The left wing of the Salt of the Earth Party are those who are into social and economic justice. Globalization. Racial justice. They want to use social systems to promote social justice. They don’t want to tackle these in a catholic manner with Catholic values and beliefs, but instead they attach themselves to other groups with similar ideas, no matter who they are, and together they get their social justice goals completed. These are the cardinals looking for debt relief for third world countries. Spread the wealth. They have conventions that put the Occupy Wall Streeters to shame. If Obama was a Cardinal in Rome .. he’d be a Salt of the Earth nonintegralist – IMHO. Cardinal Theodore McCarrick of DC is in this group. Cardinal Oscar Maradiaga of Honduras is in this group. He went with Bono from U2 to a G-8 meeting to try to get debt relief for 3rd world countries.

The Reform Party – Just like it sounds. Reform of the Catholic Church. It wants decentralization of power and a greater tolerance of experimentation. It’s very much the opposite of the Border Patrol Party. They want the mass to be more acceptable ‘ecumenically’ (which means they’d like another Vatican Council to make the mass more protestant). They want a reduction in papal power and to restructure much of the power base of the church. Instead of ‘spread the wealth’, they want to ‘spread the power’. They want greater collegiality in the church. Celibacy to be optional. Pope Paul VI supported this party. The German cardinals and Cardinal Mahony (From California and in BIG trouble) are in this party. Cardinal Martini of Milan was in this party. (BTW - Milan – the devil worshipping capitol of the world). If this group totally had it’s way, the Catholic Church would be a lot like the Episcopalian church, IMHO

None of the parties support artificial birth control.
None of the parties support women priests.
(none ever can. This is a fixed teaching of the church)
None of the parties support homosexual marriage.

As with American politics, those belonging to each of these parties may or may not follow the party line. Some American Democrats don’t follow their party platform and are pro-life. Some American Republicans don’t follow their party platform and are pro-choice. You may have Left Wing Salt of the Earth Cardinals in favor of artificial birth control and Right Wing Salt of the Earth Cardinals in favor of keeping the church teaching on it.

A lot of speculation is going on about who will be the next pope. There is A LOT of politics going on behind the walls of the Vatican. The Cardinals don’t vote a new pope in based upon what the people want. This is a decision that comes from the top down .. not the bottom up like an American election. It all has to do with how the political winds are blowing in the Vatican.

In my opinion … if the Cardinals see Islam as the major problem factor, then you will see a protective ‘Border Patrol’ Cardinal elected. If the Cardinals want to ‘appease Islam’ and try to make nice, it will elect a Salt of the Earth Right Winger. If the Cardinals are into the New World Order mode, then you’ll see a Salt of the Earth Left Winger elected. The corrupt Cardinals who run the Vatican Bank will make sure that whoever gets in will NOT be someone who will be checking into the finances very closely. Pope John Paul I was elected and those Cardinals quickly poisoned him off. Pope John Paul II learned from that and didn’t go near the banking or the banking Cardinals. I do not see a Reform Party Pope being elected. But you never know …

reply to post by FlyersFan


Very well written, and quickly written for this interesting news day, thank you. It reminds me of poor Pope Johnnus Paulus I, he of little time on this earth after his selection. After his death the guys in the back room went right to a tried-and-true member of the in-crowd, John Paul II, and things were back to normal.

Originally posted by Aleister
It reminds me of poor Pope Johnnus Paulus I,

He never had a chance ....
Poisoned before he could get even a peek at the corrupt Vatican bank.

As I've said elsewhere .. I never believed in the St. Malachy prophecies until Ratzinger took the name Benedict. Now I do believe they are probably true.

You still believe in the right vs. left dynamics? Lol I fail to see how any true Christian could entertain these circuses.
Even "ATHEISTS have woken up to the turnstyles

Originally posted by Leuan
You still believe in the right vs. left dynamics?

Dude .. I am reporting what the political parties are in the Vatican.
It has nothing to do with what I believe or dont' believe. that's irrelevant.
The Vatican has political parties who want control just like every other country.
I reported which way those parties lean and what they want.
There is a lot of speculation going on about who will be the next pope.
This guide is for those who want to know more about what to expect and why.

Thanks, FF!!!!

Stands to reason the Cardinals would have different agendas and affiliations!

I suppose, depending on which faction gains the most traction, we could have a non-European Pope...something that hasn't happened in Centuries...if ever.
Especially if the Salt of the Earth get their man in the Papal Chair.

reply to post by DontTreadOnMe

Very true. Benedict (ratzinger) was the head of the Border Party, but because there were so many Salt of the Earth Party Cardinals pushing for certain things, he HAD to do what they wished. So I'm thinking that it'll probably be a LEFT WING Salt of the Earth Cardinal who will most likely get in. Perhaps a Right Wing Salt of the Earth ... but I betchya it'll be a Left Wing one. But you never know.

We'll see sometime in March I guess ....

Strange .. a New Pope over Lent .. and a resignation ... and the St. Malachy prophecies ... and the comets ... and the black cardinals (black pope) up and coming ...

Am I the only one that doesn't care about who the new pope is....at all???

I am a Catholic, not a very good one because I disagree with a lot of their teachings, but I honestly could not care less.

reply to post by FlyersFan


A brilliant summation! I'll watch with rapt attention to what the College of Cardinals brings forth.

(some buzz, the first black pope in 1500 years)
www.vatican.va...

reply to post by FlyersFan


Nice Work! Thanks for putting the time in to put this together. I grew up Catholic and never new the details of the inner workings of the conclave until now. I essentially grew up under one Pope and didn't pay much attention during the 2005 conclave.

Originally posted by jibeho
I grew up Catholic and never new the details of the inner workings of the conclave until now.

The Conclave has changed over the years.
They are supposed to meet 15-20 days after the death of the pope. But there is no death so I imagine it'll be 15-20 days after the resignation? Perhaps it'll be faster because there is no funreal or mourning period.
First they meet in Rome for the General Congretation.
I think it's the Apostolic Palace in the Vatican.
They decide on the issues facing the Church.
Then a Particular Congregation is called.
The Novemdiales take place ... lots of politics ...
Only those under age 80 can vote.
(this is for 'term limits' on Cardinals .. something our own government should do)
Casa Santa Marta is then occupied
The Cardinals are sequestered. The Sistine Chapel is closed to visitors.
The entire place is swept for bugs and listening devices ... the conclave and the rest.
They take their oath of election and secrecy.
Conclave functions are decided by drawing names - scrutineers, infirmari, etc.

Then the voting ...One name per paper ballot. The cardinals go to the altar with their ballot and kneel at the altar and says in latin - "I call as my witness Christ the Lord, who will be my judge, that my vote is given to the one who before God I think should be elected." And then he places the ballot on a paten and slides it into a chalice.

The infirmari collect the votes from those too sick to be at the election. And he adds those to the collected ballots. The ballots are shaken by the scrutineer and then counted. If the number of ballots match the number of electors, then the counting begins. If not .. it has to be done again. It is counted by three scruitineers and the third one passes a needle and thread through each paper ballot making sure it passes through the word 'ELIGO'. When all ballots are threaded, it is knotted and placed on the side of the table.

If someone gets 2/3 of the votes .. the voting is done. If no one gets it, then they do it all over again. The ballots are burned by the three scrutineers. Black smoke rising means no new pope. White smoke rising means there is a new pope.

The oath that each Cardinal takes when voting -
(taken one time at the start of the voting process)

We, the Cardinal electors present in this election of the Supreme Pontiff, promise, pledge, and swear, as individuals and as a group, to observe faithfully and scrupulously the presciptions contained in the Apostolic Constitution of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II, 'Universal Dominici Gregis, published on 22 February 1996. We likewise promise, pledge and swear that whichever of us by divine disposition is elected Roman Pontiff will commit himself faithfully to carrying out the munus Petrinum of Pastor of the Universal Church and will not fail to affirm and defend strenuously the spiritual and temporal rights and the liberty of the Holy See. In a particular way, we promise and swear to observe with the greatest fidelity and with all persons, clerical or lay, secrecy regarding everything that in any way relates to the election of the Roman Pontiff and regarding what occurs in the place of the election, directly or indirectly related to the results of the voting, we promise and swear not to break this secret in any way, either during or after the election of the new Pontiff, unless explicit authorization is granted by the same Pontiff; and never to lend support or favor to any interference, opposition, or any other form of intervention, whereby secular authorities of whatever order and degree or any group of people or individuals might wish to intervene in the election of the Roman Pontiff.


Copy of the Apostolic Constitution of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II, 'Universal Dominici Gregis, published on 22 February 1996

reply to post by FlyersFan


Thanks for the info FF, I see a reform party pope, we shall see.

I do cringe at the thought of a "progressive" pope.

Some things, in my humble opinion, should not change.

Originally posted by beezzer
I do cringe at the thought of a "progressive" pope.
Some things, in my humble opinion, should not change.

I'd like to see the new Pope SQUASH the pedophiles who infiltrated the church.

I'd like to see the Liturgy and that type of thing preserved. The writings of the saints, the prayers, the traditions, etc .. all that is very beautiful,and focus' all the senses towards God, and IMHO it should be preserved intact.

I'd like to see 'updating' in other areas. Like understanding that the church stand on Onanism should be tossed out. That kind of thing.

I'd like to see the Vatican BUTT OUT of what other countries do. Unless it has to do with working for the rights of Catholics around the world to worship as they wish .. they should butt out. The Vatican making statements about Americans and gun control or about American border security .. it's none of their freak'n business.

And I'd like to see a pope who DOES NOT go to mosques and bow to Mecca during prayer time. Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) did that .. it it struck a very sour appeasement note ...

reply to post by FlyersFan


Flyers!?

I had no Idea..that you were so well informed!

To be honest, with the exception of the Border Patrol Party, all are instruments of progresive culture which has left the church in a state of dissiray.

Benedict was the last hope of returning to the Church a semblance of its traditions and its integrity. I bet all the "reforms" or roll backs of reforms which made the church a watered down version of its former self will be recalled.

All the seminarians who learned Latin will be told to forget it. All the tridentine masses will be erased from church memory and the church goers will continue to choose other christian denominations in light of the irrelevance of scripture and prayer to the priests. The new age priests will celebrate by acts of desecration to the Eucharist and celebrate black masses in St peters cathedral again.

The solemn high mass will be erased as well.

I dont know. I see the eastern church breaking away again as well. I see all the traditionalists groups also going their separate ways since their reconciliation with the church was dependent on Benedict. They consider the church to be in a state of heresy and schism, and they are right.

All the problems the church started to have with attendance and membership began with Vatican 2. They have purposely ignored the reality because they want to ruin the church.

The church will be in a state of sedevacantist even after the next puppet gets elected.

I also believe Benedict has had death threats made to him. Paul was forced to travel so much because he wasnt allowed to touch the church like Benedict has tried to restore it. He feared for his life. That is why Benedict is resigning IMO. Funny he had to mention his "freedom" in his resignation letter. If you notice Paul was a good puppet until he realized how bad he messed up and gave credence to scripture and prophecies, and so recalled the decree he made forbidding priests from saying the traditional mass. That is when his troubles started and his travels were increased. He was warned not to go against his support that wanted to make the church into a bland quasi Protestant,Marian obsessed mess.

romancatholicblog.typepad.com...
Here is a good read if you are interested. It explains why the reforms have had a negative impact on the church and why the traditional mass and other aspects of catholicism were the way they were.

Marian obsessed popes are the ruin of the church. They all cater to the great whore.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I agree.

Really, not much to add. I'd like to see corruption and the lying out.

But adapting to social trends is wrong!

reply to post by beezzer


Where men rule there is corruption.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by beezzer

 

Where men rule there is corruption.

I have a plethora of pithy quips to most any comment. But to that?

I have nothing.

A well said, blunt, direct and to-the-point quote.

I wonder?
Will the new pope be called "Peter the Roman"?
Ratzinger was supposed to be next to the last pope before the end of the world...

Or was it the end of the church? I heard they were running out of niches for papal busts.