Lockheed HAVE BLUE demonstrator in flight-RARE footage

Oh and that UFO looks like the top of a snow-capped mountain behind some clouds

reply to post by boomer135


Damn it Boomer!!

What I can tell you is there was another aircraft developed around the same time as the f-117 and was designed to "fill in" where the f-117 lacks.

I love both yours and Zaphs' threads but I'm really jealous at the mo' after that quote, and I bet you have the pics and may be more!!!

Originally posted by Kurokage
reply to post by boomer135

 

Damn it Boomer!!

What I can tell you is there was another aircraft developed around the same time as the f-117 and was designed to "fill in" where the f-117 lacks.

I love both yours and Zaphs' threads but I'm really jealous at the mo' after that quote, and I bet you have the pics and may be more!!!

Ah you must be in the club to see said pics if they exist. Usually we get a lot of lonely truck drivers who make there way through Kansas city to take a peak at at a photo or two. Again, only if the exist that is

reply to post by boomer135


---

It is NICE to see someone who has taken part the "Back-Office" role
in the USAF because without "gas", those planes ain't going ANYWHERE
except DOWN! Good on Ya!

---

Regarding that secondary craft you mentioned as a stop-gap filler,
I am assuming you're talking about the "legendary" delta wing-type
Tier-3 "Manta" which is possibly a full delta-wing with FLAT back
and the upper engine intake structure that looks similar to the B2.

Regarding OTHER faceted craft, who really knows? I just happen to
personally BELIEVE in an "SR-117a" probably because of my almost
perverse sense of "financial consideration". WHY throw away a perfectly
good aircraft just because CHINA and RUSSIA can only NOW detect
it in their airspace? Why the heck trust a drone that almost ALL insurgents
KNOW are there on "normal" recon missions, when a "Fake-Out" piloted plane
can be used to recon during unexpected times, specific High-Value targets
and/or 3D mapping of areas that would require TIME SENSITIVE and
COST EXPENSIVE satellite assets to be used?

Just send in an obsolete but still usable semi-stealthy aircraft with a relatively
cheap WESCAM camera for counter insurgency recon. Mujahadeen DON'T HAVE
longwave radar much less using cell-phone towers to jimmy-up a cheap passive
doppler-shift detection of stealth aircraft.

AGAIN, whether it truly exists I don't KNOW FOR CERTAIN, but some anecdotal
reports of F-117's seen in some friendly'Stans DOES SEEM to lead credence
to SOME RE-USE of retired F-117's....OR....it sets out the possibility for the
disclosure of a once-secret "SR-117a" version of the F-117.

All I have his conjecture and "anecdotal" third-party whispers that MAY or MAY NOT
be true...but since Aviation Leak AND Jane's Defence Weekly have BOTH at certain
times in the past ALLUDED to such an Stealth Recon aircraft, I am personally on
the YES it exists side of the fence.

Regarding the "UFO" photo I linked to, I'm making AN ASSUMPTION it is what was described.
Ergo, because it's north Yemen airspace, my best guess is a counter-insurgency recon craft.

---

And belief-wise, while I don't think Stargate SG1 type X-302's or Atlantis-style Flyers
are in the USAF's inventory (YET!), I wouldn't put it past them that some "Sport Model"
secret aircraft are somewhere hiding out in some underground hangar in Utah, Arizona,
Alaska, Northern Texas or maybe near some forested lake-country in upper-state New York!
Who really KNOWS what's been RandD'ed? Those Black Budgets have been rising almost
every year since 1984 and at almost 57 BILLION DOLLARS for this year maybe there
IS some Black Flying Triangle that uses an Electro-Magneto-Plasma-Dynamic hyperspace
engine to keep TOTALLY silent when flying all over the world to kidnap nubile virgins for
alien hybridization experiments.
;-) :-)

Who Really Knows?

reply to post by StargateSG7

WHY throw away a perfectly good aircraft just because CHINA and RUSSIA can only NOW detect it in their airspace?

Because you have to maintain it. If you don't need it, you stop flying it.

Why the heck trust a drone that almost ALL insurgents KNOW are there on "normal" recon missions, when a "Fake-Out" piloted plane can be used to recon during unexpected times, specific High-Value targets and/or 3D mapping of areas that would require TIME SENSITIVE and COST EXPENSIVE satellite assets to be used?

If the country is lacking air defenses, then any number of fixed wing aircraft or drones will work just time.

Satellite surveillance is cheaper than aircraft surveillance, though it is not real time.

Just send in an obsolete but still usable semi-stealthy aircraft with a relatively cheap WESCAM camera for counter insurgency recon. Mujahadeen DON'T HAVE longwave radar much less using cell-phone towers to jimmy-up a cheap passive doppler-shift detection of stealth aircraft.

If the ground forces lack air surveillance hardware, then you don't need stealth.

AGAIN, whether it truly exists I don't KNOW FOR CERTAIN

On that point, everyone here agrees with you.

Regarding the "UFO" photo I linked to, I'm making AN ASSUMPTION it is what was described.

A very very bad assumption.
Photoshopped news photo
Note in most countries, a press photographer would be fired for doctoring a photo. In fact, a few have. Fake news is par for the course in the Middle East.

IS some Black Flying Triangle that uses an Electro-Magneto-Plasma-Dynamic hyperspace engine to keep TOTALLY silent when flying all over the world to kidnap nubile virgins for alien hybridization experiments.

No.

Originally posted by StargateSG7
WHY throw away a perfectly
good aircraft just because CHINA and RUSSIA can only NOW detect
it in their airspace? Why the heck trust a drone that almost ALL insurgents
KNOW are there on "normal" recon missions, when a "Fake-Out" piloted plane
can be used to recon during unexpected times, specific High-Value targets
and/or 3D mapping of areas that would require TIME SENSITIVE and
COST EXPENSIVE satellite assets to be used?

Only now? They were able to detect them long before now, they just weren't able to detect them well enough to get a firing solution on them using certain radars.

As for the insurgents, do you really think that the insurgents know exactly when a HALE like Global Hawk, flying at 60,000 feet is overhead? Do they have radar they use to see it? Or that the UAVs we see now operating in Afghanistan and Iraq are it? They have some that no one will ever see coming, no matter how good their radar is, or what frequency it operates on. No need for an old manned aircraft that is expensive and difficult to maintain.

reply to post by Zaphod58


---

The radar absorbent coating is difficult to maintain YES! ...BUT...the rest of the aircraft
is already running AND FULLY PAID FOR! Ground support for a small craft as that
CAN'T BE ANYWHERE NEAR what it costs to support an F22 or even an F18 fighter!

These days, I wouldn't be all that surprised if they just didn't DITCH the current RAM coating
and just put a 1/8" coat of Rhino-Liner...it would almost as stealthy due to its polyurethane
base and being an aliphatic coating, it's UV light stable and can be sprayed in a wide variety
of colours, including metallic finishes! And that type of coating would also be TOUGH AS NAILS!

See link:
liners.rhinolinings.com...

So WHO IS TO SAY that the CIA didn't pilfer a few of them off of the USAF and put a new
coat of paint and let-em fly for counter-insurgency recon purposes!

Fully paid for, lol.. I beg to differ.

Originally posted by StargateSG7
Ground support for a small craft as that
CAN'T BE ANYWHERE NEAR what it costs to support an F22 or even an F18 fighter!
]

Operating costs are going to be higher than the F-18 fleet because the fleet is so much smaller. And the F-22 brings a lot more to the table than the F-117 would.

It takes a lot more than just having a "perfectly good airplane" available. You need to have maintenance and training infrastructure in place and operational, as well as having pilots with current ratings (and qualified inspectors, tanker crews, etc.). Also, F-117A spare parts and tooling have been scrapped. More important is the condition of the airframes. I have seen perfectly good RQ-4A Global Hawks retired because they were considered to have "too many hours" on the airframes.

reply to post by StargateSG7


Wow. Really? We're down to spraying rhinolining in place of RAM now? You do realize that RAM is a lot more complex than that right? It's not just a matter of spraying something with a good coat. You have to have a specific material make up to it.

As for cost, it would be MORE expensive now to maintain an F-117 than an F-22 or F-18. There is no infrastructure in place anymore to support the aircraft. That means no parts, no pieces, nothing.

reply to post by Zaphod58


I was being facetious about the F-117 RAM...but on a technical basis,
Rhino Liner would probably be almost as good and since it's waterproof
and tough as nails...it might work better than the current system since
long-wave radar would heat up the Rhino Liner coating rather than be
reflected back towards a radar receiver, though it might be a problem
defending against Infra-Red nightvision systems which would
see that Rhino-Liner coating heat-up from many miles away!

---

Modern Radar and Visual stealth use Meta-Materials that are almost
like printed microcircuitry which contain micro-grooves, wavelength-specific
"micros-sized bounce panels" and internally reflective cavities usually using
a Fractal-like pattern which are TUNED to cause specific wavelengths to get
"lost" in the micro-structures. Think of what an ANECHOIC CHAMBER looks
like but shrink it down to the specific wave lengths
of radar that you're trying to defeat!

See Anechoic Chamber link:
en.wikipedia.org...

For optical stealth, you can create ULTRA SMALL WAVEGUIDES that literally
WRAP the incoming light around an object shaping the photon beams such that
they internally reflect and refract along those waveguides much like light bounces
(i.e. internally reflects) along a fibre optic cable.

There's is an optical stealth company right here in Maple Ridge, British Columbia, Canada
where I live closeby that uses flexible polyarimid backing for a flexible optical
stealth coating that is QUITE SIMILAR in chemistry to Rhino-Liner but imprinted with
miniature waveguides to direct light or other wavelengths AROUND an object...
Think Harry Potter invisibility cloak!

See Meta-Materials Link:
en.wikipedia.org...

---

Regarding the F117, not everything has been destroyed, there are still some systems
in storage in Arizona and systems donated to the TEST squadrons (was it NASA?)
that could be used to re-activate a few F117's. There are still quite a few QUALIFIED
pilots and maintainence personnel who have flown or worked on the F117...Betcha two-bits
a few of em are employed by "The Company" (i.e. the CIA) in a new pilot or support role!

reply to post by StargateSG7

Regarding the F117, not everything has been destroyed, there are still some systems in storage in Arizona and systems donated to the TEST squadrons (was it NASA?) that could be used to re-activate a few F117's. There are still quite a few QUALIFIED pilots and maintainence personnel who have flown or worked on the F117...Betcha two-bits a few of em are employed by "The Company" (i.e. the CIA) in a new pilot or support role!

Er maybe in storage in Nevada at the TTR.

The military is just like an other business. One thing you don't want is a dead end job. Being a F-117a driver would be a dead end job. And a qualified pilot needs to maintain hours in that airframe. Since the plane being in use would be a secret, that would require flight time at probably Groom. So Groom would have to dedicate test time to this old plane. Now I suppose they could fly it in the daytime, which is when the pilots at Groom maintain their proficiency in F-16s.

reply to post by gariac


I've got a juicy tidbit for you when lends some credibiloity to my suspicions about
the F-117 program STILL continuing:

See this Link:
aviationintel.com...

and this link:
theaviationist.com...

Stealth Trainer Aircrafts:
deepbluehorizon.blogspot.ca...

These are 2010 and 2012 sightings and with the Jane's report about F117's in Uzbhekistan
im saying YES they're still flying!

reply to post by StargateSG7


One or two aircraft still flying to test unknown or classified systems does not a recon F-117 make.

I'll say it again, and again, and again, and maybe eventually get through. The F-117 makes a terrible recon platform, in every sense of the word. It's slow, it's not stealthy in all aspects, it's old, expensive, difficult to maintain, and if you add the recon equipment, what stealthiness it has goes away even more.

What exactly is the point of having an ultra-secret stealth aircraft that you can only use in places where any aircraft would work because there are either no defenses, or the defenses are so old as to be ineffective? Talk about cost ineffective and ridiculous.

Originally posted by StargateSG7
reply to post by gariac

 

I've got a juicy tidbit for you when lends some credibiloity to my suspicions about
the F-117 program STILL continuing:

See this Link:
aviationintel.com...

and this link:
theaviationist.com...

Stealth Trainer Aircrafts:
deepbluehorizon.blogspot.ca...

These are 2010 and 2012 sightings and with the Jane's report about F117's in Uzbhekistan
im saying YES they're still flying!

edit on 2013/3/16 by StargateSG7 because: more info

Hate to burst your bubble but if you actually read the stories those are my pics of the grey f-117s and they were taken well before the retirement of the fleet and used on many sites with my permission. Again, there might be some still flying around but prob not in the scope of what your thinking.

reply to post by boomer135


People forget I was the one that uploaded the F117 post-retirement video. The person who took it was a bit reluctant to be associated with it, but later uploaded it to youtube. I did the file upload at a Starbucks in Lancaster, which made it more entertaining since I was close to Plant 42. Here is the link:
F117 post retirement flight
The file is dated 10/12/2010, but the embedded date of 10/05/2010 is when the video was shot (to the best of my recollection). I can vouch 100% that the video is reality. A F117 was also videotaped a week or two before this video, but that person did not go public until the other video was uploaded. The other person who took the video is a reliable source.

But those flights in no way lends any credence to the notion that there is a SR-117a. The mission of the flights is not known. For all we known, it could be a missile test, a flour sack drop, etc.

I should also point out that the notion of a T-38 being used as a F-117 trainer is dubious. They never had a trainer when the program was active. When you read about a F117 trainer, the reference is to a simulator, or the mock up for the ejection seat, etc. The markings on the T-38 could simply be there for legacy.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by boomer135

 

People forget I was the one that uploaded the F117 post-retirement video. The person who took it was a bit reluctant to be associated with it, but later uploaded it to youtube. I did the file upload at a Starbucks in Lancaster, which made it more entertaining since I was close to Plant 42. Here is the link:
F117 post retirement flight
The file is dated 10/12/2010, but the embedded date of 10/05/2010 is when the video was shot (to the best of my recollection). I can vouch 100% that the video is reality. A F117 was also videotaped a week or two before this video, but that person did not go public until the other video was uploaded. The other person who took the video is a reliable source.

But those flights in no way lends any credence to the notion that there is a SR-117a. The mission of the flights is not known. For all we known, it could be a missile test, a flour sack drop, etc.

edit on 17-3-2013 by gariac because: typo

I never forget! Just forgot to give credit where credit is due sir! My fav pic of yours though is the one of the F-117 taking off from groom. Thats a one in a million shot man. Still don't know how you did it!

Just as a little tidbit, I was unaware of the price I could have received for those grey dragon pictures before I posted them on ATS. Looking back, eh, still made the right call. I wonder who would pay for some better ones though....jkjk could never sell out like that. Hell even the people who have seen the other ones I have I've made sure that all cameras were left out of the house...lol.

Originally posted by gariac
I should also point out that the notion of a T-38 being used as a F-117 trainer is dubious. They never had a trainer when the program was active. When you read about a F117 trainer, the reference is to a simulator, or the mock up for the ejection seat, etc. The markings on the T-38 could simply be there for legacy.

----

I suspect the T-38's are are actually CHASE PLANES rather than true trainers.
And on a general note, if they're having to use T-38's as chase planes the USAF
or any other party must REALLY be hurtin' for funding! That makes me even MORE
suspicious since it seems they are so hard up for cash they HAVE TO use obsolete
but serviceable F-117's for their recon and other test or training tasks... ;-) :-)

Those markings on planes are like patches SHOWING others in the know that
that particular plane is in some way affiliated with a specific program or test squadron.
Again I suspect that particular T-38 was probably a chase plane for a previous or current
test program which could be as simple as new RAM coatings evaluation which is one
possible reason for CONTINUING the flights of the F117.

And regarding my favorite "SR-117a" super-duper secret spy plane...If I can think it,
somebody has probably already done it! Ergo, it's my party and I can name a spyplane
anything I like....so.....GO SR-117a !!! even IF it doesn't look ANYTHING LIKE an F-117!