Still think we don't have a gun problem?

Since 1968 more Americans have died from Gunfire than in all of the wars in this country's history.

More Americans have died just since 1960 from gun incidents — suicides, accidents, and homicides — than died in every war in U.S. history.

Link

Still think we don't have a gun problem? When we have lobbyists pushing for less background checks on gun purchases this problem will continue to escalate. The "Gun Culture" has resulted in the deaths of more Americans than all of the wars that this country has fought in.

The deadliest war the U.S. has ever fought is against ourselves.

The dead will hit 1.4 million soon, yet Guns are cherished and are considered a requirement for our "freedom".

When people rush to the stores to buy high power rifles, after 20 little children were massacred inside a classroom...you know there's a gun problem.

Your numbers seam padded how man of those death by firearms are suicide ? Where did you get your numbers or are you just taking what you see as fact ?

reply to post by muse7


Your chart is completely wrong. It needs to be broken down like this. Very misleading otherwise, lacking any guns, people would kill themselves with sleeping pills or jump off buildings.

In 2011, the latest figure available from the Centers for Disease Control,
Accidental discharge 851
Suicide 19,766
Homicide 11,101
Undetermined Intent 222
Total: At least 31940 people died from gun injuries in 2011.

Also 258 people were killed during legal intervention, most of them due to guns. Guns were involved, but were not the primary cause of death: -in 2 fatal accidents. -in 6 homicides. Previous years: 2010 31,328 people 2009 31,177 people 2007 31,224 people 2004 29,569 people

Source

reply to post by muse7


You are really reaching on this one.
In fact I will go as far as to say that the source is completely using these numbers in a false manner.

Deaths that occurred during wars in foreign countries (regardless of that war's validity) have absolutely nothing to do with the gun control debate going on within the borders of the US. You are comparing apples and oranges here. One has no bearing on the other.

I don't think suicides are valid because if someone wants to kill themselves, they are going to do it whether or not they have a gun handy.

Also, how many of those deaths were caused by police?

reply to post by muse7


man, thats chilling
sadly i expect to see pages and pages of the same partizan stuff appearing on this thread soon.. attitudes both for and against are totally entrenched here on ATS and i'd be surprised to see that change

www.politifact.com...

We should note that these figures refer to all gun-fire related deaths -- not just homicides, but also suicides and accidental deaths. In 2011, about one-quarter of firearm-related deaths were homicides, according to FBI and CDC data. Using total firearm-related deaths makes the case against guns more dramatic than just using homicides alone.

LOL the article you link even says this inst true and that they have to add the suicides to make it more dramatic to help a case against guns. Talk about brain washed propaganda guess we found the definition.

source? I ask because I've yet to see any data that backs this claim up. and including suicides in this graph is absurd. so you take all the guns away, does that suddenly make suicidal people not suicidal? or are you going to confiscate their belts shoelaces and bedsheets too?

auto-related incidents cause three times more deaths than firearms. perhaps we should outlaw automobiles too. right?

reply to post by muse7


I believe there is a thread floating around that stated that only 6% of all the gun crimes in Chicago were ever solved.

Banning guns hasn't stopped these people.

It's like you're arguing that removing forks will stop over-eating.

People who commit crimes using firearms need to be prosecuted. Period. Right now, you can indiscriminately kill whomever you wish repeatedly will little concern with punishment.

I'd wager that bringing back the death penalty would do more to reduce gun violence than banning guns would.

Still think we don't have a gun problem?,

No, but we have a problem with people trying to take guns away from law abiding citizens who are exercising their 2nd amendment right to use firearms for self defense.

Originally posted by skalla
i expect to see pages and pages of the same partizan stuff appearing on this thread soon..

Look no farther than the opening post ... partisan ... misleading ...

Looking at those numbers it generally looks like the number of deaths stays pretty much the same per year (cant be bothered to do the exact maths to work out the per year average etc) but since the population is expanding and the number of deaths is staying roughly the same then as a percentage its going down

But such raw statistics need more detail as its impossible to tell someone who went into a bank and shot 30 people before the police took him out from some guy who shot themselves while cleaning a civil war weapon not realising it was still loaded

Originally posted by watchitburn
reply to post by muse7

 

Deaths that occurred during wars in foreign countries (regardless of that war's validity) have absolutely nothing to do with the gun control debate going on within the borders of the US. You are comparing apples and oranges here. One has no bearing on the other.

I wouldn't say that they have no bearing on each other at all depending on the intent. If the OP's purpose was to illustrate the disproportionate attention foreign wars receive in comparison to what may be preventable domestic gun deaths despite (questionably) similar death totals, I would think he is justified.

There is no way to get accurate numbers for the number of war deaths, here`s an example from the civil war listing all Union casualties:

Killed in action 67,088

Mortally wounded 43,012

Died of disease 224,580

Died as prisoners of war 30,192

Other types of non-battle deaths 24,881

Accidents 4,114

Drowned 4,944

Murdered 520

Killed after capture 104

Suicide 391

Executed by Federal authorities 267

Executed by the enemy 64

Sunstroke 313

Other causes 2,043

Cause not stated 12,121

Total Deaths 389,753

Wounded in Action 275,175

Total casualties, 1861 to 1865 - 664,928

www.phil.muni.cz...

As you can see there are a lot of things on the list, including murder, that aren`t related to being a war casualty but they are all included in the total number of war casualties.

I think we definitely have a violent crime problem in this country but i don`t think we have a gun problem.

reply to post by Dolos


You make a good argument.

But it boils down to this,
War is Govt. sanctioned violence, therefore legal and justified, according to the Govt.
Gun crimes, by definition are illegal.

How does the death toll stack up to death from smoking or car accidents?

How many gun deaths are from the lawful shooting of a criminal?

Why don't we disarm? Well it has been said time and time again.Let's start at Thermopylae.


"There is one source O' Athenians of all your Defeats.It is that your citizens have ceased to be soliders" Demosthenes.

That is the first quote I have found for armed citizens in a democracy.

reply to post by rockymcgilicutty


Owning a gun doesn't make you a soldier, nor does owning 20 of them make you an even better one. And, it certainly doesn't make you capable of keeping the tyrants at bay, no matter how many of your fellow-minded thinkers have them too.

Still think we don't have a gun problem?

I think we have a major gun problem in this country. Not nearly enough Americans are armed and trained in the use of a firearm for personal defense. And too many of them fear firearms instead of respecting them. Big difference.

When we have lobbyists pushing for less background checks on gun purchases this problem will continue to escalate.

No. It will continue to escalate because some want it too, so they can get a consensus and mandate from Americans to outlaw them. Also, the tighter guns are regulated and legislated the more criminals will have them, and law abiding citizens won't.

The "Gun Culture" has resulted in the deaths of more Americans than all of the wars that this country has fought in.

No. It is government doing what they do best that has caused so many gun related deaths. Government exacerbates every problem they try to "fix". War on drugs, anyone.

I've said it before. I'll say it again. Keep your damn laws off my guns.

Why compare to the amount of deaths in wars?

As another member said, this is not relatable. Are we supposed to think in our minds "ALL the war's deaths must be a BIG number" ? I would think that is the only reason a person would compare the two peices of data, for the 'shock' effect likely to happen out of a person's expectation on the death toll from all those wars. Typically, I would say a normal person would assume that all those wars combined would not come close to firearm deaths in the US and as such this data is meant to suprise them into thinking "wow that's alot of firearm deaths".

Really though, for the firearm debate the only comparisons that matter are comparing deaths in the same timeframe and with other causes of death that can relate to how large an issue it could be. How many were suicide ( because if people want to kill themselves, they do it anyway - gun or not ). Can you compare firearm deaths to other causes of death in the same timeframe? How many die of alcohol, tobacco or other things? This is the only real way discussion on firearms can continue. Sorry about that, I hate to take such a strong stance but ultimately the original post's data not only is misleading but is completely unhelpful to the very argument it's trying to prop up. What I mean by that is regardless of what my personal stance is on firearms, I know that in a court of law ( or logical discussion ) this data would be interpeted not viable to prove a point.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


Banning guns does help to give tyranny better footing from which to grow.As far as a solider many veterans have guns and are now private citizen's they are still soliders.The civilians who own guns are keeping to the second admendment,and can be considered milita.


"The beauty of the second admendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it"
Thomas Jefferson

reply to post by muse7


Lol.. talk about manipulating statistics to serve an agenda.

This is ridiculous.