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Originally posted by HowardRoark
Oh, no you don't.
You started out by repeating a old and clearly false rumor about Jews at the WTC on 9/11, then you stated: "I wonder if we aren't bombing and invading the wrong countries?"
When I pointed out that you used the plural, when the singular form would have been more in keeping with the tenure of your post, you replied:
"Uh no, I meant countries as in Plural, you know Iraq and Afghanistan. That is two, hence the plural. "
It would be totally illogical for you to be talking about Iraq and Afghanistan in the context of that post.
We did bomb and invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Therefore you had to have been implying that we should be bombing and invading a different country altogether.
Based on the context of your post, I can only assume that you were trying to suggest that we should be bombing Israel.
That is what I meant when I suggested that you should use the singular form.
Originally posted by mikesingh
WTC brought down by the great Americans themselves?? Or by the Mossad?? That's a lot o' BULL!! And the 'reasons' given are harebrained! Imagine if this had been the case, such a massive operation to destroy the WTC would have involved hundreds of people from government and inter-government departments, the military, Communications, Intelligence agencies, Air controllers, Air Force, Airlines and Airport security, Air defence, Homeland security, demolition experts, and other super secret agencies! Who was coordinating this massive effort? How were they communicating? Were they all on board? Why hasn't anyone of the hundreds involved, squeaked? Why only conjectures uptil now?
The fact is that the Islamic terrorists did it. Period. Bomb or no bomb!
Originally posted by sturod84
previous post of mine....
"how come they claim the buildings collapsed from fire? when in fact steel burns at 2700 degrees, and jet fuel burns at 2300 degrees for a breif time while supplied with ample oxegen. note most of the fuel went up in that huge fire ball that exploded outside of the building, and the fire inside was very ineficient because of the lack of oxegen.
it is also said that a normal collaspe of the building would not cause the pulverazation of the concrete and materials that was strewn about the ground site. the only way to mix the molecular structure so signifigantly would be with a powerful and extremely hot blast ( c-4 )
a controlled demolition is the only logical explanation, the ground debris of the WTC was smoldering for many days after they collapsed. very hot tempuratures were messured at the ground reckage, what caused these extremely hot tempuratures, and the ability to burn for days?
also, the pancake collapse witnessed by all of us is confusing, since the hole in the towers were diagonal, the collapse should have been off center, but no they fell perfectly straight down.
there is so much more damning evidence as far as motive, cooperate agenda, and 3 letter agencys. there is no doubt in my mind this attack is the work of the illuminati.
notice in my picture the 24000 pounds of fuel that went up in flames ouside of the building. fire is drawn to oxegen, there is very little oxegen inside the building, for such an emense ammount of fuel.
Originally posted by twitchy
There is a wealth of evidence to support WTC was brought down by controlled demolition, there is a welath of evidence to support a conspiracy, there is very little if any evidence to support the official story given to us by our government.
The official story if full of holes. Also take into consideration that the US Government has indeed been guilty of sponsoring terrorism, they have been been found deeply involved in plots to manufacture terrorism to justify the invasion of Cuba, there are serious indications that the bombing of peral harbor was not what it appeared to be. Also amungst these, let's 'remember the Maine', the suspiscous circumstances surrounding the sinking of the Lucitania. If you honestly think our government is above such activities then you are biased beyond any hope of openmindedness on this topic.
How about Israel, are they also above such tactics? Why did we bomb Lybia? how about the american war ship the Israeli's fired on adn tried to put off on arabs? I would strongly encourage some research on this subject, some serious research before you go trying to debunk anything because as I have said, the official story regarding the events of 9-11 is full of holes.
Cut that tv off for a while adn read up on thermite,
read up on why teh tapes of communication between the pilots and the ATC were shredded and deposited in seperate trash cans...
do some research on the weakening point of structural steel or the
Fy by Wire systems that somehow ignorant box cutter weilding terrorists were able to disengage somehow.
Complicity in a conspiracy to destroy WTC would not involve as many people as you think it would, especially given the athority and connections of those who were que bono. I am not asking you to buy anything, I am asking you to read up on it before you believe anything one way or another. Just for your piece of mind if nothing else. Start here if you like,
http//www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=WTC+demolition&btnG=Google+Search (I made a slight change to that link. Go ahead, check it out - HR)
Originally posted by HowardRoark
No, it is the other way around. There is a wealth of information to support, the FACT that the WTC collapse was caused by the impact and fire.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
All of the so-called �demolition� evidence evaporates in a haze of ignorance once it is examined in any detail.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
When that happens, the conspiracy theorists pull out more and more absurd theories to support their claims.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
I especially like the one where someone devoted a whole web site to �prove� that floor trusses were not used in the WTC towers.
Then there is the latest. There are some people who actually believe that someone actually installed explosives in the columns when the buildings were built 30 years ago.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
Are you claiming that the sinking of the Maine is tied into 9/11?
If you honestly think our government is above such activities then you are biased beyond any hope of openmindedness on this topic.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
I knew you would eventually come around to blaming Israel for 9/11.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
Do you honestly think that someone installed thermite in the columns 30 years ago?
Originally posted by HowardRoark
First you need to improve your reading comprehension skills, because you obviously have problems understanding what you are reading. (Then you need to learn how to use a spell checker. )
Originally posted by HowardRoark
The destroyed tape was NOT the conversations between the controllers and the planes. The tapes were made after the attacks and were records of the controllers talking about what happened.
Certainly the supervisor that destroyed the tapes showed bad judgment, but considering the emotional trauma these people had just gone through, I can fully understand that there might have been irrelevant information on the tapes, and the need to protect the privacy of the people involved.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
If you actually learned something about how buildings are engineered, materials science and fire science, then you would see just how absurd these theories are.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
By what criteria are you calling them ignorant? Are they ignorant because they are Arabic? What gives you the right to call anyone ignorant?
Originally posted by HowardRoark
I have underlined the misspellings mis-capitalization and other errors in your post. An occasional typo is understandable, but you, my friend are too lazy to spell check your work, and not smart enough to get it right the first time.
Originally posted by HowardRoarkWhat gives you the right to call anyone ignorant?
Originally posted by twitchy. Also take into consideration that the US Government has indeed been guilty of sponsoring terrorism, they have been been found deeply involved in plots to manufacture terrorism to justify the invasion of Cuba, there are serious indications that the bombing of peral harbor was not what it appeared to be. Also amungst these, let's 'remember the Maine',
Originally posted by twitchy
Who would you implicate then? Iraq? Afghanistan? Neither of these countries had jack to do with the events of 9-11.
The supposed mastermind of the plot was in the same resort George Bush was in within hours of each other. We were the biggest supporters of both Hussien and the Taliban, we created, trained, armed, supported, and made Bin Laden.
Originally posted by twitchy
You mean the explosions reported by firefighters who were blocked from testifying before the 9-11 commission
or do you mean the seismic spikes picked up BEFORE each collapse,
or do you mean the black oxygen starved hydrocarbons reaching an incredible temperature are not a wealth of information?
No Major Steel Towers Have Ever Collapsed From Fire Before.
There have been much worse fires in lesser buildings. Cell Phones went dead before each collapse for a moment (radio interference from remote device).
There were pools of molten steel at the base of the towers after the disaster, no hydrocarbon is going to do that, yet it is common with thermite demolitions.
Most of the fuel from one of the jets burned up ina corner impact, yet it was the first to collapse despite the thick black smoke indicating a recession of the 'inferno'.
Never mind the squibs you can see going off ahead of the collapses,
or the fact that buildings came straight down into their foundation
or that the lead company charged with cleaning up the mess specializes in large demolitions and was also the same company that contracted the federal building in OK.
The explosives weren't installed until Bush's Brother's Security Company got contracted for security, not on only at WTC, but at the airport as well. A contract which ran out to the date on 9-11.
Who would you implicate then? Iraq? Afghanistan? Neither of these countries had jack to do with the events of 9-11. Most of the Highjackers were reported to be Saudi Nationals, some of which turned up to be alive and well in other parts of the world, wondering why the US had them listed as dead terrorists. The supposed mastermind of the plot was in the same resort George Bush was in within hours of each other. We were the biggest supporters of both Hussien and the Taliban, we created, trained, armed, supported, and made Bin Laden. Who would you blame? Alqeida? After all they claimed responsibility didn't they, note there was no mention of the fake alqeida cell they got busted setting up in Gaza anywhere but foriegn media.
Originally posted by Facefirst
Resort? What? Links please. And No Alex Jones #e.
Originally posted by twitchy
Originally posted by Facefirst
Resort? What? Links please. And No Alex Jones #e.
This resort...
'Bush and Atta Visit Same Resort in the Hours Leading to 9-11
More smoke, more fire.
by Daniel Hopsicker
Nothing to see here. Move along."
Originally posted by HowardRoark
Do you honestly think that if the rank and file firefighters had even the slightest suspicion that there were bombs in the towers that they wouldn�t be marching in the streets? The issues they had with the commission had nothing to do with non-existent bombs.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
or do you mean the seismic spikes picked up BEFORE each collapse,
You seem to be unable to grasp that THIS IS NOT TRUE.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
or do you mean the black oxygen starved hydrocarbons reaching an incredible temperature are not a wealth of information?
You also seem to be unable to grasp that even in an ordinary structure fire temperatures will reach 2000 degrees F. Now if you throw in the fact that you have jet fuel in the mix and the several floors was set ablaze at once, then even you would have to admit that incredibly high temperatures were not only possible, they were guaranteed. Furthermore, with the elevator shafts ripped open and most of the windows busted out, there was plenty of oxygen available.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
No Major Steel Towers Have Ever Collapsed From Fire Before.
No Major Steel Towers Have Ever Been Hit By Fully Loaded Jet Planes Before.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
There have been much worse fires in lesser buildings. Cell Phones went dead before each collapse for a moment (radio interference from remote device).
Gosh cell phones went dead. How many of the local cell towers were effected by the attack? How many were located in the WTC? How many people were trying to use their cell phones at the same time?
Yes the firefighters had trouble with their radios. Unfortunately they proved to be unreliable when they needed them the most.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
There were pools of molten steel at the base of the towers after the disaster, no hydrocarbon is going to do that, yet it is common with thermite demolitions.
First of all, this is an unsubstantiated report. Now, as I understand it the report was of pools of melted metal. There is no confirmation that the metal was steel. There are plenty of other metals used in buildings, aluminum being one.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
Most of the fuel from one of the jets burned up ina corner impact, yet it was the first to collapse despite the thick black smoke indicating a recession of the 'inferno'.
If it all burned up, then where did the �black oxygen starved hydrocarbons� come from that you keep going on about?
Even if 80 % of the fuel burned up in the first few minutes, that still leaves an awful lot of fuel on that floor. If all of the fuel in a jet plane crash burns up so quickly, then why is it when other planes have crashed, they still burned for a while?
Originally posted by HowardRoark
Never mind the squibs you can see going off ahead of the collapses,
Ah, the so called squib flashes that are exactly one pixel in size. Digital noise, my friend, digital noise.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
or the fact that buildings came straight down into their foundation
Do you honestly think that they should have tipped over like a tree? Where should the buildings have fallen except straight down? Furthermore, a significant amount of the debris was scattered around the building footprint itself.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
or that the lead company charged with cleaning up the mess specializes in large demolitions and was also the same company that contracted the federal building in OK.
This proves absolutely nothing.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
The explosives weren't installed until Bush's Brother's Security Company got contracted for security, not on only at WTC, but at the airport as well. A contract which ran out to the date on 9-11.
You have obviously never worked in the construction trades in a large high rise have you? You have no idea what how buildings like the towers are managed and operated, do you? I have gone over this in other threads and simply do not wish to repeat myself again. Suffice to say that the whole idea that some one can sneak into an occupied building and plant thermite on the structural columns with no one noticing is just plain silly.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
Who would you implicate then? Iraq? Afghanistan? Neither of these countries had jack to do with the events of 9-11. Most of the Highjackers were reported to be Saudi Nationals, some of which turned up to be alive and well in other parts of the world, wondering why the US had them listed as dead terrorists. The supposed mastermind of the plot was in the same resort George Bush was in within hours of each other. We were the biggest supporters of both Hussien and the Taliban, we created, trained, armed, supported, and made Bin Laden. Who would you blame? Alqeida? After all they claimed responsibility didn't they, note there was no mention of the fake alqeida cell they got busted setting up in Gaza anywhere but foriegn media.
Don�t you get it, this has nothing to do with nationality, this is a religious war for these people. and again, this has nothing to do with the cause of the building collapse.
Originally posted by twitchy
Yeah, Columbia University just loves to manufature seismic data to support conspiracy theorists. The seismic readouts are in the public domain, and clearly show major readings in the instants BEFORE each collapse. Now how in the world do you get that this isn't true? Do you think Colulmbia University would make them up, maybe rig their seismographs? Maybe there just happened to be earthquakes in NYC that day the moment before each bulding collapsed? How can you say this isn't true whenthe seismic data is obviously legitimate, and considering the source of the read outs, accurate as well? I can up and say there is cheese on the moon too, but that just isn't supported by data, is it?
A truck bomb at the WTC in 1993, in which approximately 0.5 tons of explosive were detonated, was not detected seismically, even at a station only 16 km away.