Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Theory' is a Conspiracy Fact

Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by Frosty
I'm not saying it didn't melt, I'm saying it didn't needed to be melted........
(snip) ..... maybe it melted after it fell, who knows for sure?

melted after it fell?
i'm just not answering you in particular anymore. you have no sense of logic.
you're melted to me, frosty.

i'm going to continue to monitor your scattered thoughts, though, because it amazes me that anyone can make such bizarre leaps in illogic.

subgroundlevel bombs intitiating the collapse of the WTC is completly feasable though? I did not make a logical statement based on my thoughts, I am made a statement that reflects on your's and many other peoples logic.

Originally posted by Frosty

Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by Frosty
I'm not saying it didn't melt, I'm saying it didn't needed to be melted........
(snip) ..... maybe it melted after it fell, who knows for sure?

melted after it fell?
i'm just not answering you in particular anymore. you have no sense of logic.
you're melted to me, frosty.

i'm going to continue to monitor your scattered thoughts, though, because it amazes me that anyone can make such bizarre leaps in illogic.

subgroundlevel bombs intitiating the collapse of the WTC is completly feasable though? I did not make a logical statement based on my thoughts, I am made a statement that reflects on your's and many other peoples logic.

Now your getting somewhere frosty, there were sub-level explosions, reported by witnesses and captured on various video footage of the 9-11 incident. There is even speculation that there were sublevel micronuclear devices used in WTC, as crazy as that sounds, it would explain the incredible temperatures and the outages of cell phones and raidos at the initiation of the collapses, adn the unique atomization of alot of the buildings material. It would also be a possible explination for the huge anamolous spikes in the seismic readings, which oddly enough are consistent with seismic readings from underground nuclear tests.

There is even speculation that there were sublevel micronuclear devices used in WTC

The Strange Collapse of the Spire
.........and one anolmoly of that is in the video shot of the building (1) I believe as it is crumbling down.
At one point you can see a solid piece of structure literally turn into dust.Not just crumble into chucks,but literally fine dust.
Here it is here...........


ANIMATION:


CLOSEUP:BEFORE and AFTER



And finally,here is the CNN footage that captures it. 1.88MB AVI

edited for spelling error

[edit on 28-11-2004 by SMR]

Sorry if this has been addressed - it's a long and complicated thread to get through

Regarding the material ejecting out as the building collapses (which some believe is proof of the building being demolished with explosives) couldn't it be the air in the building being forced out under great pressure as the weight of the building collapses above it? I mean, their must be a large volume of air in the building and it must be released as it collapses - and to see small jets of material fly out underneath the collapse is how, in my mind, that would look.

Imagine forcing all the air out through the window of the room you're sitting in now in a split second with 1000's of tons of concrete and metal - surely it would jet out of the window and look very much like those "explosions" that take place during the collapse? Wouldn't it also make a sound - like a balloon popping?

Again, sorry if this has come up already - it's just that's how I see it when I see those little explosions.

Great thread btw

I don�t know if anyone has brought these two links of information to the thread as of yet, if there are I apologies.
The first link is reported to come from the Chief Engineer magazine and reports of eyewitness account of the moments after the first plane crash describing evidence of large explosions in the lobby, parking garage and subbasement levels of WTC-1 at the time of the crash.

First-hand Accounts of Underground Explosions In The North Tower





Stationary Engineer Mike Pecoraro follow the link to read his account that day

Excerpts:

Mike told his co-worker to call upstairs to their Assistant Chief Engineer and find out if everything was all right. His co-worker made the call and reported back to Mike that he was told that the Assistant Chief did not know what happened but that the whole building seemed to shake and there was a loud explosion.
The two decided to ascend the stairs to the C level, to a small machine shop where Vito Deleo and David Williams were supposed to be working. When the two arrived at the C level, they found the machine shop gone.

�There was nothing there but rubble, �Mike said. �We�re talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press � gone!�
They decided to ascend two more levels to the building�s lobby. As they ascended to the B Level, one floor above, they were astonished to see a steel and concrete fire door that weighed about 300 pounds, wrinkled up �like a piece of aluminum foil� and lying on the floor. �They got us again,� Mike told his co-worker, referring to the terrorist attack at the center in 1993.

Consider the implications of what Mr. Pecoraro describes: At this point the only overt damage to the building was the plane crash some 95 floors above, which could not have caused violent explosions underground. Since the towers were anchored at the base to the bedrock the shaking caused by the crash would have been greatest close to the crash site, getting progressively weaker as it approached the rigid attachment at the bottom. Yet the underground damage he describes can not have been the result of a mere shaking - nothing short of an explosion could reduce the contents of a machine shop to rubble.

Source Link : st12.startlogic.com...

The second link is from Liberty Forum

Video linkSquids along southwest corner of WTC-7
The above clip is taken from this longer video of the WTC-7 collapse, which itself is a small segment of the Naudet brothers' documentary "9/11" , (with enlargement and cropping by Webfairy):

Source link : www.libertyforum.org...

[edit on 28/11/2004 by Sauron]

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by Frosty

Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by Frosty
I'm not saying it didn't melt, I'm saying it didn't needed to be melted........
(snip) ..... maybe it melted after it fell, who knows for sure?

melted after it fell?
i'm just not answering you in particular anymore. you have no sense of logic.
you're melted to me, frosty.

i'm going to continue to monitor your scattered thoughts, though, because it amazes me that anyone can make such bizarre leaps in illogic.

subgroundlevel bombs intitiating the collapse of the WTC is completly feasable though? I did not make a logical statement based on my thoughts, I am made a statement that reflects on your's and many other peoples logic.

Now your getting somewhere frosty, there were sub-level explosions, reported by witnesses and captured on various video footage of the 9-11 incident. There is even speculation that there were sublevel micronuclear devices used in WTC, as crazy as that sounds, it would explain the incredible temperatures and the outages of cell phones and raidos at the initiation of the collapses, adn the unique atomization of alot of the buildings material. It would also be a possible explination for the huge anamolous spikes in the seismic readings, which oddly enough are consistent with seismic readings from underground nuclear tests.

So you are telling me that a sublevel explosion occured in the WTC yet had nothing to do with the collapse of the building and yet was the sole proprietor of the anomolous spike? When the thousands of tons of debris (that being the building) start to come down they began to speed up to to gravity which is known as acceleration due to gravity, in NY it is at about 9.803 m/s. You want us to believe that this effect could not at all be the probable cause for the atomization of certain debris or even be the origin behind the anomolous spike? So you want us to believe that the building gently landed on the ground and didn't cause any seismic activity to be noticable? We know that the collapse caused certain debris to be nearly atomized because there are massive amounts of dust being shot a hundred feet into the air right after it collapses. This dust does not appear out of thin air, it comes from the falling debbris hitting the ground at such high speeds. Like when you take an apple and throw it at a brick wall, the apple is broken into several large pieces and many more smaller pieces. Now imagine that apple being a 3,000 pound piece of concrete falling from 200 hundred feet.

Where is the evidence of radiation to these small nuclear arms being deployed?

This album was relased months BEFORE 9-11. Note the accurately predicted impact points, the remote control device, the red star in the top right, the wierd font on the right side, etc.

It�s already proven that its mathematically impossible that wtc towers collapsed because fires. Also there are just too many mistakes about fema theories that someone could seriously believe them. Maybe time will show, maybe not. Bad luck that all the evidence was disposed to china so quickly.
BTW. Does fema has an explanation to the collapse of wtc-7 nowdays? Or is it still "collapse because fires which ignited ways unknown and melted steel agains elementary psychics..
-ap

[edit on 15-12-2004 by aape]

Originally posted by aape
It�s already proven that its mathematically impossible that wtc towers collapsed because fires.

Only someone who hasn�t the faintest comprehension of how structural engineering works, would think this.


[edit on 15-12-2004 by HowardRoark]

If we can just for the moment look objectively at 911 without leaning either one way or the other and just examine the facts.

No matter how we look at it, a crime (homicide) was committed on 911 whether it was an inside job or not. This was a crime that we as Americans have never before witnessed here on our soil. This I believe we all can agree to.

When a homicide occurs in the USA an investigation is opened and law enforcement such as forensic gathers all available evidence to be examined and comes to a conclusion based on the examination of that evidence. Again we can all agree.

In the case of 911 the most vital piece of evidence is the STEEL. The STEEL above anything else is the most crucial determining factor that can be examined to determine and answer the why�s and how�s. Again I believe we all can agree to this fact.

Having agreed to this point, the question that needs to be asked is why was the most crucial piece of evidence in the investigation the first to be removed from the scene and sent to a third world country for recycling?

You can argue about jet fuel melting steel, explosions going off, airplane pods, graphs etc. as can be attested to the length of this topic. But the bottom line and what everyone should be asking or explaining is, why remove the most vital piece of evidence before you complete an investigation and come to a determination?

End of debate!!!

i read a book recently about the whole subject called 'the new pearl harbour - by David ray griffens' its a great book and brings up many many questions that the goverment are ignoring.

Originally posted by mdefab01
In the case of 911 the most vital piece of evidence is the STEEL. The STEEL above anything else is the most crucial determining factor that can be examined to determine and answer the why�s and how�s. Again I believe we all can agree to this fact.

Having agreed to this point, the question that needs to be asked is why was the most crucial piece of evidence in the investigation the first to be removed from the scene and sent to a third world country for recycling?

You can argue about jet fuel melting steel, explosions going off, airplane pods, graphs etc. as can be attested to the length of this topic. But the bottom line and what everyone should be asking or explaining is, why remove the most vital piece of evidence before you complete an investigation and come to a determination?

End of debate!!!

Again, someone who fails to understand how structural engineering works.

To begin with, samples of the steel were collected. The steel was found to meet the required specifications.

If the quality of the steel used is an issue, then the problems dates back to the when the buildings were built. If sub quality steel was used, then the problem has nothing to do with the terrorists of 9/11. Since random sampling of the steel has indicated that it met the required quality standards, the steel was not really an issue.

What is the issue, and what may not have been thoroughly investigated was how the building design responded to the impacts and fires leading up to the collapse. The WTC tower designs were innovative and unique when they were built.

This is an issue in that there are other buildings out there that have been built since the WTC that share similar design elements. If there is an inherent weakness in the design then we need to know.

This is the issue that should be debated, not all of this paranoid B.S. about �bombs,� �pods� and thermite.

howard roark is a good debater, but even the best debater cannot infuse a fatally flawed theory with that feeling....that sense of satisfaction which comes from hearing an explanation that puts all apprehension to rest.


okay, has anyone factored in the possibility that the towers [including 7WTC] were structurally flawed from the very begining? i am leaning towards this as the ultimate cause of the stupendous collapse. i believe they were very resistant to anything nature could have thrown at them, yet sadly, their achilles heel [which was known to whoever pulled off 9/11] was an utter vulnerability to even a modest jet fuel fire event.

i have been saying all this about 7WTC from the moment i saw it collapse live on television at roughly this same time [5 PM] on september 11th 2001. fire or NO fire [and 7WTC had no jet fuel involvement inside], that 47 story structure simply should not have collapsed like a chinese wall with a drunken sailor inside it.....hmmmm, why did i choose THAT particular analogy? n.y.o.b

look, , the official theory is bovine excrement, and three years later people happily remain muttonheads who embrace whatever the government tells them and sheepishly go along with it. after all, talk radio tells them it's true, and THEY wouldn't feed them anything that wasn't true, WOULD they?? of course not.

[edit on 15-12-2004 by victor was right]

Originally posted by SMR

There is even speculation that there were sublevel micronuclear devices used in WTC

The Strange Collapse of the Spire


This thread is so long, I can't even find what I've posted here, but the point of the crumbling of the spire always seems to me the best explanation of the methods of the day and which knock any concept of occam's razor into a tin hat
That is that the supposed hijacked planes were, all three possibly, holographic imagery covering missiles. All visual evidence, apart from the junk supposedly photographed in the Pentagon confirms this
The fourth plane, I'll concede was real and shot down after the success of the mission
The towers were most likely collapsed by some Tesla howitzer interferometric scalar type weapon. That is a feasible reason for the dessication of the spire and why so much of the concrete and steel, and equally, flesh and bones were turned into clouds of dust
How many representative DNA samples of completely missing individuals are there still to be identified
A fair few, I think
The best explanation is the most outre, and can be confirmed in Bali as a plausible alternative to the mininuke


[edit on 16-12-2004 by dh]

Did anyone care to realize the MASSIVE scale of people who would have to have knowledge of this Conspiracy? I mean, to call Bush a fumbling, bumbling moron(which he is) then to assume he and his NeoCon's contructed this BROAD conspricacy on the American public, destroying hundreds of corporation's headquarters i'm SURE he profits directly from, to the engineers who set the bombs to the people paid off to not say anything to the victim's families on the planes to the remote control plane operators to the people outside the pentagon who were paid off to say a plane hit it and all of these people, to this day, haven't said a word. After thousands of innocent deaths in afghanistan and iraq, to across the globe, no one has spoke out of thousands and thousands involved with this conspiracy to help Israel and some corporations out a little bit?

You people are on here because you're too smart to be on alot of these other boards. Use your logic and realize that in a round about way, everyone's to blame. Bushie's pops funded these morons, and gave them the know how, so once Bush Jr. got in office, with his lackadaisical attitude, they figured why not? And Bush got a memo, and Bush didn't care. You people voted this guy back in, after all the vactions, all the lies, all the deciet...and you'll still get exactly what you ask for.

If anything, we're to blame. Blame ourselves. Now let's move on, let's get these radical, Christ promoter, "Stick to my guns no matter what the facts say" nutjobs out of office and make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

Originally posted by MystrSynistr
Did anyone care to realize the MASSIVE scale of people who would have to have knowledge of this Conspiracy? I mean, to call Bush a fumbling, bumbling moron(which he is) then to assume he and his NeoCon's contructed this BROAD conspricacy on the American public, destroying hundreds of corporation's headquarters i'm SURE he profits directly from, to the engineers who set the bombs to the people paid off to not say anything to the victim's families on the planes to the remote control plane operators to the people outside the pentagon who were paid off to say a plane hit it and all of these people, to this day, haven't said a word. After thousands of innocent deaths in afghanistan and iraq, to across the globe, no one has spoke out of thousands and thousands involved with this conspiracy to help Israel and some corporations out a little bit?

You people are on here because you're too smart to be on alot of these other boards. Use your logic and realize that in a round about way, everyone's to blame. Bushie's pops funded these morons, and gave them the know how, so once Bush Jr. got in office, with his lackadaisical attitude, they figured why not? And Bush got a memo, and Bush didn't care. You people voted this guy back in, after all the vactions, all the lies, all the deciet...and you'll still get exactly what you ask for.

If anything, we're to blame. Blame ourselves. Now let's move on, let's get these radical, Christ promoter, "Stick to my guns no matter what the facts say" nutjobs out of office and make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

1 - Bush is not dumb
2 - About 150,000 Americans worked on or had knowledge of Stealth project, which first flew in 1976. Did you?
3 - Cognitive Dissonance - No one wants to think that the US had anything to do with US deaths. _This factor is huge._
4 - PNAC speicifically states the US need 'New Pearl Harbor' to enact program long before 9/11.
5 - NORTH AMERICAN AIR DEFENSE I guess no one ever heard of it. Apparently you can fly planes with transponder equipment off, hijacked, for 45 - 90 minutes, with people calling in from the plane, and no one care to send up fighter plane until that day? Please give me break.
6 - Qui bono I believe phrase is.
7 - Country that put men on moon finds it to difficult to track down parties rewarded with large sums of money thanks to obvious pre-knowledge of attacks.
8 - Representative senators who push for 9/11 investigation get nice little packets of Anthrax spores, which conveniently came from US Army facility, but cannot be traced to any individual. (LOL) Of course they back off.
9 - Leader of US cannot go on record for talking what he did on that day, and never wanted investigation of worst 'terrorist' incident to ever occur in modern history. Honesty? I think not.
10 - All planes on that day were fly-by-wire. This is handy because if you think guys who never flew live aircraft could maneuver thos planes you are mistaken.
11 - At least 5 of 19 hijackers who 'died' that day are alive and giving interviews to newspapers!

One can go on and on and on. Basically, if you believe it was not inside job you are living in fantasy world like Mr. Anderson. But after three years of watching this chicanry, which was obvious baloney from day one, you know what I learn man? "Ignorance is bliss" ( - Mr. Ragen AKA Cypher )

When you add up all facts, you can only say the 'official line' that gross government ineptitude allowed attacks to happen is unlikely reality.

So what is reality? As private citizens people can only draw conclusion from available facts and evidence. I have far more questions than anyone sticking with party line can ever possibly answer, therefor party line is incorrect and other reality must exist.

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."

Arthur Schopenhauer

Fuxx Bush and the rest of them, this is war.

Too funny.

So we supposedly have this rogue POTUS, hell-bent on murdering thousands of Americans for personal political and financial gain. OK fine. Let's assume for a moment that's true, just for the sake of argument.

How is above-referenced Rogue POTUS gonna do something like that without getting caught?

Will he coordinate this incredibly complex plan of unprecedented proportion that involves (among hudreds of other concurrent things) slamming remotely-controlled commercial airliners into buildings just so he can set off pre-planted explosives designed to bring the buildings down, a plot so complex that it involves the cooperation of literally thousands of people and increases the risk of getting caught by several thousand orders of magnitude? Or will he just flip the swich and bring the buidings down?

Somebody smart enough and connected enough to plant enough explosives in the WTC towers to bring them down is far too smart to concoct a grandiose conspiracy that involves thousands of complicit people.

Originally posted by twitchy
This album was relased months BEFORE 9-11. Note the accurately predicted impact points, the remote control device, the red star in the top right, the wierd font on the right side, etc.

Yea, the impact points are being very accurate, I wonder how was this done... perhaps these guys were simply instructed what to create on their CD cover.

Originally posted by SMR

There is even speculation that there were sublevel micronuclear devices used in WTC

The Strange Collapse of the Spire
.........and one anolmoly of that is in the video shot of the building (1) I believe as it is crumbling down.
At one point you can see a solid piece of structure literally turn into dust.Not just crumble into chucks,but literally fine dust.
Here it is here...........
ANIMATION:

Very interesting, and I had some comments on this in my previous posts.

Is there an actual technology dating back to 2001 to turn massive steel structures into dust?!