THIS Is The Problem With Our Community!!!

reply to post by CristobalColonic


If you're going to ad hom and derail - at least develop some level of talent at it. The fact that I have an active posting history on ATS is proof of only one thing... that I have an active posting history on ATS.

So, please... dig through my vast and easily found posting history and at least find a post or ten where I was so eager to have "the scoop" that I didn't fact check, source, or where I refused to accept valid evidence that disputed my position. Until you do that, your post is nothing but an off topic cheap shot.

reply to post by pacifier2012


I don't understand the implication or association you're trying to make here. To be quite honest ATS is not as full of zealots as one might think. The truth of the matter is that if you dig through the archives and find 100 problematic members from the past, chances are you're actually looking at the same 3 people who went through 30-some odd accounts each during that time period. It's just one of the perils of the Internet... trolls who become obsessed with the idea of disrupting one site, endlessly.

Would it be rational for the thousands of us who care about ATS to abandon it to the small handful who only want to disrupt for the lulz?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I do understand your feelings on the matter - honestly I do. But the reality is that ATS is a privately owned site where the owners truly do seek to try and find a balance that allows for the most open discussion possible, while also being family friendly and safe to visit. Detractors always scream that this is purely a function of advertising - and I am sure that advertising is part of it. This is something I don't spite at all. Years into being an ATS member I can honestly say that ATS has never asked me for a single penny. They've never made clicking on advertising links a mandatory step in accessing anything here. In fact on three different occasions the community has stepped up and given to me when I was in need.

How common is that sort of community these days?

In return we're asked to follow a set of rules that, in all honestly, isn't that restrictive or tough. No drug talk, no porn, no profanity, no gratuitous one word or line replies - and a request that we remain civil and courteous to one another. As has been said many, many times - there are an endless array of sites that don't have such rules - they are the appropriate venue for fulfilling such desires. ATS is not.

Being that this is a conspiracy community, of course, there is always a small group of people who see the rules here as a conspiracy unto themselves. So they gripe. This is further complicated by a common misunderstanding of what the First Amendment actually means. A quick example would be that the First Amendment means you can start your own newspaper and say anything you want in it. Of course you'll be held accountable for those words if they are criminal, negligent, libelous, etc. What it does not mean is that you are free to say anything you wish in a paper that is owned by somebody else.

Another example? You're free to do what you want and say what you want in your own home. But you are not free to do so in mine. I make the rules here, you make the rules there.

The rules here currently ask that people NOT post any theories suggesting that Sandy Hook was fake, or that the relatives of the victims are actors. That's it. Two restrictions upon a subject - yet to read the threads an outsider would think that ATS is 1940's Germany and that the Gestapo is in full swing.

Maybe I am a bit more empathetic than the average person. But I keep thinking that, if anyone in my family fell victim to a crime like this... and then I logged on here to see that some asshat was claiming that my relative didn't die... or that my mourning family members were not real people? I'd be enraged in a manner that words cannot convey. To be frank - I wouldn't want to sue. I'd want to track people down and beat them half to death over it. I'm sure that many others share this feeling. My family is not fair game. They are under my protection and I will defend them.

So, if I feel that way ( as many others do ) then what kind of man would I be if I didn't give other families the same consideration that I would demand for my own?

Further... how many of the proponents of the SH issues, the ones making all of this noise, would be doing it if it were their relatives who were killed?

We might have one or two nutjobs floating around who'd allow their own families to be disgraced and lied about - just for fun. But I think most here would not.

~Heff

Here's another article with a first hand account by a relative of someone killed at Aurora:

“Some of these people are incessant. They don’t stop,” he said, suspecting most are true believers, not merely prankers trying to get a rise out of their victims. Some family members had to change their phone numbers or delist themselves to avoid harassment. Ghawi said he doesn’t think redacting the names from court documents will help much, since most of the names are already out there, but that it probably couldn’t hurt. Still, he tries to take all in stride. “This is what makes America great, in a way. You can express your opinion. But, sh**, there are some crazy opinions out there.”

Link

reply to post by Hefficide


So do what I suggested as soon as the owner stated he didn't want his sort of thing - delete all threads dealing with the subject. Then you won't really have to deal with this "problem"

To me this you can talk about "certain" aspects of a subject is stupid, when issues are so closely related of course they are going to be discussed.....

They're doing a check on awareness trying to keep a rift between those unawake and those awake. And possibly clamp down into police state censorship.

I was just reading on another site to safeguard your awakening, that the other side was awake too now.

As if they had played this entire thing, spoon feeding truths out and now trying to control or rid themselves of the Light and create a world of Dark.

Safeguard awareness.

reply to post by Hefficide


Your points are well taken, at least on my part. Like many aspects of life, conspiracy theory can be taken to far and of late some of the more distasteful elements of our community have stepped forward. Reading that victims of tragic events are being hounded makes me ill, seriously. I steer clear of the Sandy Hook threads as they are just to painful to read, often times its like the community needs a mirror to stop and look at themselves to as is said "Check it before you wreck it".

Originally posted by Unity_99
They're doing a check on awareness trying to keep a rift between those unawake and those awake. And possibly clamp down into police state censorship.

I was just reading on another site to safeguard your awakening, that the other side was awake too now.

As if they had played this entire thing, spoon feeding truths out and now trying to control or rid themselves of the Light and create a world of Dark.

Safeguard awareness.

What are you talking about Unity?

Heff's point has nothing to do with being awake or creating a world of dark or whatever else you're off about, it's about people that have been harassing victims of crimes claiming they are actors, and that they are somehow not actually victims, thereby making them feel 100 times worse than they do after a tragedy...

Sometimes I wonder...

Originally posted by SilentKoala
I don't see this as a problem with "our community," but rather another pathetic attempt by the mainstream media to bash conspiracy theorists and anyone who questions what they are told.

Spew all the propaganda you want, but I'm going to continue to question what I am told, thank you very much.

edit on 8-2-2013 by SilentKoala because: (no reason given)

Bingo!

It's also an example of the democratization of the media. Once it was just "the media" and "the authorities" who had easy access to the tools to quickly find people's addresses, phone numbers, and other details.

Now we all do. Sure, there will always be a few over zealous folks both in the MSM and outside it who abuse this. But that's a small price to pay for access.

And, if someone is truly being harassed, there are laws against harassment. And they should pursue that avenue.

reply to post by vkey08


That kind of thing has been going on since time began, it is funny to see it becoming a problem to some now since it is not the media's idea to do it, and since people are more aware of these kinds of things.

People are sick and tired of being lied too, and this is an inevitable reaction...this is just the beginning too.

An entire society that is based off, and lives for, LIES.

And now that people are freaking out about it you want to try and stop it well good luck.

Welcome to the Jungle.

Originally posted by SilentKoala
I don't see this as a problem with "our community," but rather another pathetic attempt by the mainstream media to bash conspiracy theorists and anyone who questions what they are told.

Well, I'm sure there is some of that mixed in there. Many of us know full well that marginalizing (and possibly even criminalizing) the conspiracy movement is definitely part of the agenda.

However, we have to be realistic. The First Amendment (or any other rights that you might think you have) doesn't mean squat if the public hates us. They will swat your rights away in a microsecond and no one will care.

Obviously, they don't really care if we try to be respectful or not. And obviously, this is probably just an excuse to oppress the conspiracy crowd. But we have to try to be respectful anyway. I'll tell you this much. If the public believes you are being disrespectful to a bunch of murdered kids, nothing else is going to matter. You've already lost. And you'd better believe TPTB know this and will exploit it.

You have to understand that emotion is very powerful. When it comes to motivating massive numbers of people, there is nothing else like it. Skepticism, contemplation and critical thinking are not raw emotions.

Of course we should have a right to be skeptical but we'd better understand that we're dealing with people who don't believe in rights. The concept of free speech lasted about as long as it took for the ink to dry. Now all that's left is a piece of paper and the hope that people will believe in it enough to leave us with a modicum of freedom.

Make no mistake. Acting as if the right to speech is inviolate will not help.

Spew all the propaganda you want, but I'm going to continue to question what I am told, thank you very much.

As am I. But I'm also a realist.

Originally posted by CristobalColonic

Originally posted by Hefficide
literally physically sickened by the lengths that some of our co-members will go to just to have "the scoop" apparently.

Yeah. I wonder what drives people to do such things...

*cough...

...cough*

Your reply is quite indicative of someone who has been here for about two (2) months! Good job mate!

Oh, wait a minute, you have been here for only two (2) months....

reply to post by Hefficide


So ATS must now be a politically correct conspiracy forum because you are afraid that rude, insensitive people who may or may not believe in aliens are representative of this forum at large? Does anyone know the true identity of even one of those harassers?

Ya know.....I am growing weary of being called a conspiracy theorist because I'm not brain dead and retain the ability to ask questions. And yes... harassment is inexcusable, and the vast majority of ATS would and will condemn it.

Originally posted by Moresby
It's also an example of the democratization of the media.

I've been thinking about this for a long time. This was touted as a positive development but I'm starting to have second thoughts. If what is going on now represents the "alternative" media this needs to be re-examined before the establishment does it for us. With no gate-keepers whatsoever you have the potential for any number of destructive memes blasting out over the wires and recently it's started to look a little like the lunatics trying to take over the asylum. Kind of like Jung's theory of psychic epidemic where a breakdown of our thin veneer of civilization allows darker aspects to emerge into consciousness at which point the traditionally "mentally ill" move from the margins into the mainstream. He specified broadcasting as a mechanism for inflaming this but the internet is exponentially more powerful.

EDIT: Here's one of the Jung quotes I was thinking of:

indeed, it is becoming ever more obvious that it is not famine, not earthquakes, not microbes, not cancer but man himself who is man’s greatest danger to man, for the simple reason that there is no adequate protection against psychic epidemics, which are infinitely more devastating than the worst of natural catastrophes. The supreme danger which threatens individuals as well as whole nations is a psychic danger. Reason has proved itself completely powerless, precisely because its arguments have an effect only on the conscious mind and not on the unconscious. The greatest danger of all comes from the masses, in whom the effects of the unconscious pile up cumulatively and the reasonableness of the conscious mind is stifled. Every mass organization is a latent danger just as much as a heap of dynamite is. It lets loose effects which no man wants and no man can stop.

Jung: the Undiscovered Self

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by Hefficide

 

So ATS must now be a politically correct conspiracy forum because you are afraid that rude, insensitive people who may or may not believe in aliens are representative of this forum at large? Does anyone know the true identity of even one of those harassers?

Ya know.....I am growing weary of being called a conspiracy theorist because I'm not brain dead and retain the ability to ask questions. And yes... harassment is inexcusable, and the vast majority of ATS would and will condemn it.

That's the problem, a vast majority doesn't condemn it it seems. In fact the tone some of these threads have taken seem to suggest quite the opposite in fact, that people think it's ok to question how people react to various situations, if they don't react like they think they should, then it's automatically a coverup, and the fact that the world should work like it does on CSI, we have answers immediately and things don't take real time to figure out and assess, so if it takes a month to get results on something, then it's them trying to think of a story instead of actually investigating.

Questioning what happened, does not equal having to call everything a fake, or everything a psyop or all participants actors, when in the real world things take time, we don't live on the set of CSI or Law and Order.

Good post.

Seems like all it takes is a few flakes to spoil it for many.

With our politicians being what they are they'd use any excuse available, especially with the help of the media to repeat ad nauseum about things. What with the politicians not even reading anything before they pass it nor do they care, they'd probably have a back door method for themselves, so why should they care?

Control and suppression is the name of the game.

Now we have a new CISPA to worry about,: :

reply to post by Hefficide


it was not forums like ATS nor the fringe site GLP or any of the so-called lunatic/fringe/conspiracy theory sites which published the home addresses of permited gun owners...for all people including criminals to see...

no,,, the private and confidential info. was published by a MSM news portal that the (turning tyrannical) federal government uses as propagandists


the NYT is the newpaper of record for the politicians, much like Pravda was for the USSR (in that era)


do a ;search' for yourself...about making public the names & addresses of gun owners & private citizens with concealed carry permits.... and tell youself that practice is ethical and harmless !


there seems to be an avalanche of stories to both distract and to marginalize the actions by that type of news media info.... which is undoubtedly harmful and dangerous to people thgat do not follow the administration-in-power mindset of banning guns, etc



lets direct our outrage and trepidation of the future social landscape being made by President Øbama and cohorts... about their policy of demonizing gun owners, veterans, police who do not drink the kool-ade, the preppers and other patriots etc

reply to post by vkey08

Questioning what happened, does not equal having to call everything a fake, or everything a psyop or all participants actors, when in the real world things take time, we don't live on the set of CSI or Law and Order.

But certain questions infer certain things.

I think that the powers right here at ATS have done a nice job of silencing opinion that may offend people. Seeing a 404'ed used to be a rarity here, not so much anymore. ATS has plenty of official nanny's, I don't think they need the the general membership to join the brigade.

There are a few national incidents over the past months that demand some very pointed questions. For ATS members or administration to ask that we sit quietly and wait for the official story is.... well....kinda weird, and kinda scary, especially given the track record of the previous "official stories"

From what I've seen the members here at large have and will continue to condemn harassment.