The unrealized scientific appendix to 2012

No, the appendix is not about moving the goal posts once again. Actually it somewhat is, but the opposite way. The catastrophic 2012 hysteria was designed to show that we can't sometimes associate the obvious - we can't see a "funny coincidence" even though it is big and painted red. Here is the appendix that will clue you in:

Dinosaur-killing asteroid was a twin terror

The simulations also suggest that it is possible to identify which of Earth's single craters had binary origins. These craters should be subtly asymmetrical, and that makes the crater near Chicxulub in Mexico – thought to be the result of an asteroid impact 65.5 million years ago that wiped out the dinosaurs – a strong candidate.

"The Chicxulub crater shows some important asymmetries," says Miljković. "It is worth considering that it was formed by a binary asteroid."

www.newscientist.com...

The Chicxulub crater in Yucatan Peninsula is named after a town, which is near the center of that 110-mile in diameter impact crater discovered in late 1970s. Scientists have theorized that the crater was caused by an asteroid, and, as a consequence, the dinosaurs who had ruled the earth for tens of millions of years were wiped out by the climate changes resulting from the huge impact. Here is the gist: the town of Chicxulub used to be the home to the Northern Maya and the Mayan culture played a major role in the 2012 catastrophic prediction. But there is more. The Mayans measured time with the help of cyclical calendars, and one of them, the Long Count, has its longest cycle called "alautun." This cycle is approximately 63,081,429 years long. Does that ring the bell now?

alautun = 63 million years
the asteroid impact = 65.5 million years ago

What if someone out there wanted to correct our estimate regarding the time the asteroid (or now a hypothetical binary asteroid) slammed into the earth?

Well, first, you need to teach the guys, who will later live in the affected area, astronomy and special cyclical time keeping. And then, with the help of super-advanced mind control, you start the 2012 hoopla as we came to know it. But no one noticed that funny coincidence that links the planet Nibiru (actually stands for an asteroid in this scheme) colliding with the earth and the Mayan "prophecy." Maybe the super-advanced mind control device was turned off for a moment and so we didn't notice anything - a good point to make.

That has to be one of the most convoluted and wacky ideas I seen in the last few days.

Don't you think it would be much simpler to send a direct message?

Why would anyone put an idea into the Mayan culture just to make sure than at a distant time in the future an event would be dated more accurately than is needed?

You're also a little late on this connection. Calleman made a similar claim back in 2001.

20-21-2012 did happen. It was a very rare astrological event that won't happen again for another 26 thousand years. Any other doomsday prophecies have nothing to do with the mayan calendar.

reply to post by RegisteredUser


So what was this rare astrological event?

Please explain.

reply to post by stereologist


The mayan calendar. It's facinating how the mayans were able to create a calendar that lasted 26 thousand years, but Dec 21 was no different than Jan 31 on our calendars. The cycles just reset and start over again.
Source

The Maya calendar is not spooling up the thread of time. It is coming to the end of a particular cycle in an unending sequence of cycles. According to the rules of the Maya calendar system, a primary interval, Baktun 13, for all practical purposes ends on the winter solstice, 2012. Although pseudoscientific claims have linked this calendrical curiosity to a Maya prophecy of the end of time, there is no evidence for ancient Maya belief in the world's end in 2012 or even in any unusual significance to the cycle's completion.

reply to post by RegisteredUser


Where do you get the idea that the calendar lasted 26,000 years? The link doesn't mention that,

It was a very rare astrological event that won't happen again for another 26 thousand years.

So what is the astrological event?

reply to post by stereologist


The astrological event was the end of the calandar. I watched a documentary on the History Channel.

reply to post by RegisteredUser


So you're not really sure what the hysteria channel presented. I can give you a hint that the claims of the hysteria channel have been mentioned many times in the 2012 forum and every time have been shown to be false. They have an abysmal record at getting anything at all right.

Originally posted by stereologist
That has to be one of the most convoluted and wacky ideas I seen in the last few days.

Don't you think it would be much simpler to send a direct message?

Why would anyone put an idea into the Mayan culture just to make sure than at a distant time in the future an event would be dated more accurately than is needed?

You're also a little late on this connection. Calleman made a similar claim back in 2001.

And how do you suppose the "direct message" would look like? Like the SETI gets the long-awaited signal on 12-21-2012, the whole organization goes banana and turns to some other fruit by finding that the binary message deals with the Mayans and the KT event? I wonder what the public would say about that - especially the part of the public that deeply believes in the UFO.

It's not really about such a message per se, but about a coincidences that we just miss. Speaking about secret coded messages... Here is one in ternary number system instead of the expected binary:

201212211112

Where does that come from?

See, the Aztecs and the Mayans heavily worshipped sun gods:

In Aztec religion there were 5 ages, or "5 suns". Each of these ages had a different Aztec sun god, and each age ended in disaster.

Obviously, the 2012 hoopla must have involved a disaster on a day that is significantly related to the sun, that day being the solstices, one of which took place on 2012-12-21 at 11:12 UTC. That means, the whole time data is a collection composed only of first three non-negative digits: 2, 1, and 0. I wrote them in the descending order, because that's how any countdown ends. You know, countdown? Like the countdown to the end of the world in 2012. Did the astronomers or NASA notice that the 2012 winter solstice is special because that kind of digit configuration in the time of the winter solstice is extremely rare and would never occur again? And did it happen in the past? If so when?

Calleman never mentioned the Chicxulub crater in connection with the Mayan Long Count calendar.
en.wikipedia.org...

If you claim that he did, please post the link showing that he has done so.

The whole 2012 hoopla just proved that we are vastly inattentive species living in a small mental box with no much future to speak about. And that's the secret alien message of 2012.

reply to post by tremex

Obviously, the 2012 hoopla must have involved a disaster on a day that is significantly related to the sun, that day being the solstices,

The Mayans did not consider the solstices important. Your use of obvious appears to be an attempt to make an unsubstantiated connection that you cannot make.

That means, the whole time data is a collection composed only of first three non-negative digits: 2, 1, and 0. I wrote them in the descending order, because that's how any countdown ends. You know, countdown? Like the countdown to the end of the world in 2012. Did the astronomers or NASA notice that the 2012 winter solstice is special because that kind of digit configuration in the time of the winter solstice is extremely rare and would never occur again? And did it happen in the past? If so when?

This is simply numerology mixed with the idea that anything unique must be very special. The solstice the year before was special, too. And the one before that.

Calleman never mentioned the Chicxulub crater in connection with the Mayan Long Count calendar.

The issue is not the long count calendar. You stated.

alautun = 63 million years
the asteroid impact = 65.5 million years ago

I replied

You're also a little late on this connection. Calleman made a similar claim back in 2001.

Calleman wrote a book in 2001 called "The Mayan Calendar: Solving the Greatest Mystery of Our Time". In that book he discusses alautun rhythms in which he claims that the dinosaurs reign ended as part of the alautun rhythm. So Calleman already claimed the connection between the end of the dinosaurs and the alautun time period back in 2001.

The whole 2012 hoopla just proved that we are vastly inattentive species living in a small mental box with no much future to speak about. And that's the secret alien message of 2012.

A laughable conclusion.

The 2012 hoopla was scammers fleecing the gullible. There is no secret alien message.

This is wackier than the claim the comet Elenin was ELE for extinction level event.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by tremex

 

The Mayans did not consider the solstices important. Your use of obvious appears to be an attempt to make an unsubstantiated connection that you cannot make.

Did I say that the Mayans ascribed some prophetic importance to the solstices? I never said anything of that kind. Just read again what I wrote:
"Obviously, the 2012 hoopla must have involved a disaster on a day that is significantly related to the sun, that day being the solstices,..."
The mind that came up with the 2012 hoopla did its homework knowing that the Aztecs (mentioned in the external quote) linked their sun gods to disasters. But the doomsayers predicted a disaster taking place on the winter solstice of 2012 which was based on something else: a bunch of misdefined terms.

This is simply numerology mixed with the idea that anything unique must be very special. The solstice the year before was special, too. And the one before that.

You are one of the folks who call any numerical arrangement that they don't understand numerology. Moreover, your treatment of words unique and special supports my claim. The winter solstice of 2011 and those before couldn't be special with respect to the one taking place of 2012. Since you didn't understand the easy-to-see uniqueness of the last year winter solstice, there is no point in explaining it again.

Calleman wrote a book in 2001 called "The Mayan Calendar: Solving the Greatest Mystery of Our Time". In that book he discusses alautun rhythms in which he claims that the dinosaurs reign ended as part of the alautun rhythm. So Calleman already claimed the connection between the end of the dinosaurs and the alautun time period back in 2001.

It's not impossible that he would miss the alautun/dinosaur extinction connection - there were others who didn't - but there is no reference to it on the web by those who discuss his book. But that's only a part of the chain of the coincidences which significantly involves the Northern Mayas, the last tribe of once mighty Mayan civilization, who went basically extinct as landowners in the 16th century. Their last stronghold was near the town of Chickxulub - the town after which the impact crater is named. That's where other set of strange coincidences start...

A laughable conclusion.

The 2012 hoopla was scammers fleecing the gullible. There is no secret alien message.

Oh really? Lol. And what did the scammers really gain? How much money they've made by selling all the survival gear that no one bought? You don't support your claims with anything. Even the 2012 doomsayers' prediction had more merit than your assertion.

reply to post by tremex

"Obviously, the 2012 hoopla must have involved a disaster on a day that is significantly related to the sun, that day being the solstices,..."

I wanted to point out that the claims of those that made up the hoopla did not realize that the Mayans did not care about solstices.

Did I say anything about "prophetic importance?" No. The Mayans simply were not interested in solstices.

You are one of the folks who call any numerical arrangement that they don't understand numerology.

It's numerology plain and simple. The numerical arrangement you refer to is contrived and meaningless.

The winter solstice of 2011 and those before couldn't be special with respect to the one taking place of 2012. Since you didn't understand the easy-to-see uniqueness of the last year winter solstice, there is no point in explaining it again.

If you don't understand that each solstice is unique and special then there is no point in explaining it again.

The fact is that the 2012 solstice was no more unique or special than any other solstice. No amount of numerological woo changes that.

It's not impossible that he would miss the alautun/dinosaur extinction connection - there were others who didn't - but there is no reference to it on the web by those who discuss his book.

You just didn't look hard enough. Calleman posted comments about it. Yes, the author himself.

But that's only a part of the chain of the coincidences which significantly involves the Northern Mayas, the last tribe of once mighty Mayan civilization, who went basically extinct as landowners in the 16th century. Their last stronghold was near the town of Chickxulub - the town after which the impact crater is named. That's where other set of strange coincidences start...

Simply coincidence.

Oh really? Lol. And what did the scammers really gain? How much money they've made by selling all the survival gear that no one bought? You don't support your claims with anything. Even the 2012 doomsayers' prediction had more merit than your assertion.

The scammers earned a living. They sold lectures and books and DVDs and survival gear.

Your notion is simply apophenia. It is without merit.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by tremex

 

I wanted to point out that the claims of those that made up the hoopla did not realize that the Mayans did not care about solstices.

Did I say anything about "prophetic importance?" No. The Mayans simply were not interested in solstices.

The Mayans and the Aztecs did care about the solstices (special points on a time line) as well as the ancients who built Stonehenge thus leaving behind hard evidence that they did care. However, the Meso-American cultures didn't connect solstices with any catastrophic scenario. But for some reason, the Aztecs linked their sun gods to disasters.

In Aztec religion there were 5 ages, or "5 suns". Each of these ages had a different Aztec sun god, and each age ended in disaster. That represents only one storyline in the Aztec empire.

The modern cultures living on this planet don't worship sun gods, but do link the sun with a disaster citing a rational reason:
www.foxnews.com...

So there is an agreement among the ancient and the modern cultures, as far as the sun is concerned. But since "sun" translates into "sol" in Latin, "solar flares" and "summer or winter solstice" are linked to sun. It logically follows that the solstices are linked to a disaster through common etymology, even though the solstices themselves cannot cause any disaster. Since most of us don't have the ability to distinguish between special and ordinary, every solstice appears to be the same, as far as the time of occurrence is concerned. But is it really so?

Here is an excerpt from the linked article:

High-energy electric pulses from the sun could surge to Earth and cripple our electrical grid for years, causing billions in damages, government officials and scientists worry.

We can use electricity as long as the components of the grid are connected, like ABCD. When a disconnection - like A B C D - occurs due to a mighty solar flare hitting the grid, no juice is flowing to our electrical outlets. It follows that not every solstice is the same, depending on the circumstance. For example, we can use the above symbolics of connection and disconnection.

Connected: ABCD
Disconnected: A B C D

You can fix the disconnected grid by filling the spaces between letters with some characters to reconnect the grid components again:

Connected: ABCD
Disconnected due to the rogue solar activity: A B C D
Reconnected due to repairs: A+B+C+D

Since the Aztecs had 5 sun gods, you simply solve an equation

5 = A+B+C+D

And all solstices which fall on the year that satisfy the solution (funny coincidence) of the equation are therefore special with respect to the Aztec culture. Here is one out of many possible solutions:

5 = 2+0+1+2

So the summer and the winter solstice of the year 2012 are special in that given respect. But can you pick only one solstice in that year 2012?

Given the notorious circumstance, the problem is easy to solve: For almost a decade, doomsayers under alien mind control were feeding the Internet with unprecedented disaster scenario, which was supposed to take place on the winter solstice day of 2102, being completely oblivious of the logical connection between the winter solstice of 2012 and the belief of the ancient Meso Americans, which involved 5 sun gods, as explained above.

Whether the connection is coincidental or not is secondary in nature. What matters is the ability to uncover the coincidental link, and we are not that good in this, as the whole 2012 hoopla proved. Then, of course, the only way to establish whether the connection is likely coincidental or not is to use the theory of probability. But that's very hard, actually impossible, because we are not that advanced in this particular field of mathematics.

It's numerology plain and simple. The numerical arrangement you refer to is contrived and meaningless.

You can assert anything you please, but you are not capable of showing that your assertion has any merit. It amounts to the most primitive denial imaginable, because you lack the necessary authority to give your assertion at least a tiny bit of consideration.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by tremex

 

If you don't understand that each solstice is unique and special then there is no point in explaining it again.

The fact is that the 2012 solstice was no more unique or special than any other solstice. No amount of numerological woo changes that.

But you have never demonstrated that "each solstice is unique and special." You only demonstrated that you don't understand the difference between "unique" and "special."
I never referred to the specialty of solstices as natural effects; I explicitly mentioned the time of their occurrence. I think the best way to figure out the way you reason is if you answer the following question: Which solstice seems to be more logical with respect to the time of its occurrence: the summer or the winter solstice?

You just didn't look hard enough. Calleman posted comments about it. Yes, the author himself.

So why haven't you posted the link to make your argument acceptable with a touch of finality? The good chance is that there is no link like that.

Simply coincidence.

That's another of your "eloquent" assertions that you cannot support no matter how hard you would try.

The scammers earned a living. They sold lectures and books and DVDs and survival gear.

There was definitively some 2012 commerce going on
www.abovetopsecret.com...
when the 2012 peddlers later realized that there was enough customers. But again, the whole 2012 idea didn't originate in the human mind. There is growing evidence that makes this possibility worth to assume.

Your notion is simply apophenia. It is without merit.

But you cannot show that your "diagnosis" is valid. It's just one of your baseless, phobic denials.

reply to post by tremex

The Mayans and the Aztecs did care about the solstices (special points on a time line) as well as the ancients who built Stonehenge thus leaving behind hard evidence that they did care.

False. The Mayans cared little if at all about the solstices.

www.famsi.org...

Solstices were of very minor importance. Though they record
hundreds of ceremonies, anniversaries, jubilees, dedications,
offerings, astronomical events, etc., inscriptions almost never
mention events on solstices or equinoxes. However, especially
very early, during the Middle Formative, the Maya built “EGroups,”
architectural alignments to the Solstices and Equinoxes.
(Archaeoastonomers have long been puzzled by the fact that most
E‐Groups do not align to these risings. Recent investigation
suggests that E‐Groups may have been aligned to the solar Zenith
Passages and Nadirs, events more highly esteemed than Solstices.
The First Zenith Passage coincides with the onset of the rainy
season in much of Mesoamerica.)

So there is an agreement among the ancient and the modern cultures, as far as the sun is concerned. But since "sun" translates into "sol" in Latin, "solar flares" and "summer or winter solstice" are linked to sun. It logically follows that the solstices are linked to a disaster through common etymology, even though the solstices themselves cannot cause any disaster.

That is completely void of reason. It's a game that is as silly as numerology

Connected: ABCD
Disconnected: A B C D

You can fix the disconnected grid by filling the spaces between letters with some characters to reconnect the grid components again:

Connected: ABCD
Disconnected due to the rogue solar activity: A B C D
Reconnected due to repairs: A+B+C+D

Since the Aztecs had 5 sun gods, you simply solve an equation

5 = A+B+C+D

And all solstices which fall on the year that satisfy the solution (funny coincidence) of the equation are therefore special with respect to the Aztec culture. Here is one out of many possible solutions:

5 = 2+0+1+2

Nonsensical gibberish.

Given the notorious circumstance, the problem is easy to solve: For almost a decade, doomsayers under alien mind control were feeding the Internet with unprecedented disaster scenario, which was supposed to take place on the winter solstice day of 2102, being completely oblivious of the logical connection between the winter solstice of 2012 and the belief of the ancient Meso Americans, which involved 5 sun gods, as explained above.

Please post the evidence for these weird claims.

You can assert anything you please, but you are not capable of showing that your assertion has any merit. It amounts to the most primitive denial imaginable, because you lack the necessary authority to give your assertion at least a tiny bit of consideration.

The onus is on you since this is your claim.

I have shown that your claim that the solstice was important to the Mayans is utterly wrong.

The burden is actually on you to support your claims.

reply to post by tremex

But you have never demonstrated that "each solstice is unique and special." You only demonstrated that you don't understand the difference between "unique" and "special."
I never referred to the specialty of solstices as natural effects; I explicitly mentioned the time of their occurrence. I think the best way to figure out the way you reason is if you answer the following question: Which solstice seems to be more logical with respect to the time of its occurrence: the summer or the winter solstice?

Every solstice is unique because the Earth wobbles. Every solstice is special in that it is different from all others.

You need to show that the 2012 solstice was somet5hing other than a silly numerological toy.

So why haven't you posted the link to make your argument acceptable with a touch of finality? The good chance is that there is no link like that.

I posted the source of Calleman's claims. It was his 2001 book.

That's another of your "eloquent" assertions that you cannot support no matter how hard you would try.

The onus is on you to prove your claims. The burden is not on me to prove you wrong. I am simply and easily poking holes in your unsubstantiated claims.

But again, the whole 2012 idea didn't originate in the human mind. There is growing evidence that makes this possibility worth to assume.

You've provided no evidence. Please post it.

But you cannot show that your "diagnosis" is valid. It's just one of your baseless, phobic denials. /quote]
The burden is on the person making the claim. I see nothing more than apophenia.

edit on 13-2-2013 by stereologist because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by tremex

 

False. The Mayans cared little if at all about the solstices.

False? But your link supports what I said - that the Mesoamericans did care about the solstices as much as the late Neolithic cultures who built Stonehenge.

However, especially very early, during the Middle Formative, the Maya built “EGroups,” architectural alignments to the Solstices and Equinoxes.

Here is a support to the excerpt from your link.

4. Astronomical Orientations of Buildings. The ancient Mesoamericans peoples were accomplished astronomers, and key public buildings were often aligned with significant astronomical phenomena, such as the direction of sunrise on the solstice.

These are architectonically similar features that can be found in the layout of Stonehenge, except that the Aztecs and the Mayans didn't incorporate the celestial occurrence to their religions, mainly because their calendars were cyclical and the beginning of each cycle was the main cause for the festivities. Unlike you, the ancients could distinguish between ordinary and special, as their architecture shows.

That is completely void of reason. It's a game that is as silly as numerology.

But that was a simple case of transitiveness:
If A = B and A = C then B = C.
That's too bad that you didn't recognize a basic logical arrangement. But I'm not surprised by that.

Nonsensical gibberish.

If you don't recognize a simple case of transitiveness, then the most of logical constructs would appear as gibberish to you. Obviously.

Please post the evidence for these weird claims.

My reference to the "alien mind control" is an assumption, not a claim that it is actually so. The assumption is based on the evidence part of which I presented and which you are incapable of following.

I have shown that your claim that the solstice was important to the Mayans is utterly wrong.

I never claimed that the solstices were IMPORTANT to the Mayans; I said that the Mesoamericans did CARE about them and the ex-links in the beginning of this thread prove that it was so. Your way of denying of what never been said clearly points to the falsity of your thinking with all the consequences that clearly show.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by tremex

 

Every solstice is unique because the Earth wobbles. Every solstice is special in that it is different from all others.

You need to show that the 2012 solstice was somet5hing other than a silly numerological toy.

If every solstice is "special," then it means that every solstice is distinct. But because the earth "wobble" is not the cause for a distinction. You just mentioned the premise but completely left out the conclusion: If the earth wobble, then ______? and that causes each soltice to be distinct from one another.
You don't take into consideration the fact that there are not two days with the same date. That means every day is distinct the way it is recorded in the calendar and that also means every day is "special." Such a view adopted by you simply cancels public holidays as special days when folks don't go to work and stay home. The word "special" means significant minority of cases. The same goes for the solstices. For some reason, you have a hard time to find special items among the ordinary. That's why you failed to answer my question which solstice seems to be more logical: the summer or the winter.

How do you suppose the SETI is looking for the intelligent life in the universe?

I posted the source of Calleman's claims. It was his 2001 book.

I don't have the book as you could imagine, so your argument can be sent back to the times of Spanish Inquisition.

The onus is on you to prove your claims. The burden is not on me to prove you wrong. I am simply and easily poking holes in your unsubstantiated claims.

The way you are "poking holes in my claims" lacks any reason. It's a pile of non-constructive denials limited to single words similar to "nonsense" or "rubbish." I would have to be a very naive guy if I expected anything else from you.

reply to post by tremex

False? But your link supports what I said - that the Mesoamericans did care about the solstices as much as the late Neolithic cultures who built Stonehenge.

How do you get that out of "Solstices were of very minor importance."?

Aligning building with the solstice does not suggest any real importance except maybe to astrologers and their ilk. The solstice was not important.

the Aztecs and the Mayans didn't incorporate the celestial occurrence to their religions, mainly because their calendars were cyclical and the beginning of each cycle was the main cause for the festivities. Unlike you, the ancients could distinguish between ordinary and special, as their architecture shows.

The long count calendar was not cyclic and that is where 2012 comes from. In your own words the solstice were not important. They even made many calendars that were oblivious to such issues as the equinox and solstice.

But that was a simple case of transitiveness:
If A = B and A = C then B = C.
That's too bad that you didn't recognize a basic logical arrangement. But I'm not surprised by that.

Ooooh, the transitive rule. Mentioning a basic concept still does not raise any of your so-called "logic" above the silly level.

If you don't recognize a simple case of transitiveness, then the most of logical constructs would appear as gibberish to you. Obviously.

Still relying on apophenia.

My reference to the "alien mind control" is an assumption, not a claim that it is actually so. The assumption is based on the evidence part of which I presented and which you are incapable of following.

Yup, it's apophenia.

I never claimed that the solstices were IMPORTANT to the Mayans; I said that the Mesoamericans did CARE about them and the ex-links in the beginning of this thread prove that it was so. Your way of denying of what never been said clearly points to the falsity of your thinking with all the consequences that clearly show.

Blustering about a poorly reasoned idea does not make your case.

reply to post by tremex

If every solstice is "special," then it means that every solstice is distinct. But because the earth "wobble" is not the cause for a distinction. You just mentioned the premise but completely left out the conclusion: If the earth wobble, then ______? and that causes each soltice to be distinct from one another.

Do I have to tell you everything.

You don't take into consideration the fact that there are not two days with the same date. That means every day is distinct the way it is recorded in the calendar and that also means every day is "special." Such a view adopted by you simply cancels public holidays as special days when folks don't go to work and stay home. The word "special" means significant minority of cases. The same goes for the solstices. For some reason, you have a hard time to find special items among the ordinary. That's why you failed to answer my question which solstice seems to be more logical: the summer or the winter.

Depends on your hemisphere.

I don't have the book as you could imagine, so your argument can be sent back to the times of Spanish Inquisition.

Just because you did poor and sloppy research is causing you to make a logical fallacy called an appeal from personal ignorance.

The way you are "poking holes in my claims" lacks any reason. It's a pile of non-constructive denials limited to single words similar to "nonsense" or "rubbish." I would have to be a very naive guy if I expected anything else from you.

Can you think of better terms to label such rubbish?