Incredible Speech on Gun Violence

reply to post by g146541

Would you surrender your arms to these people?? I certainly wouldn't.

I wouldn't either.

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by Advantage

 

Wrong.

He said school shootings didn't happen in the past and that they are happening now due to societal decay.

You are taking what he said WAY out of context and trying to play on words.

When he was referring to them not happening in the past, the general interpretation by MOST people is that it was extremely rare compared to what has been happening recently.

Societal decay has nothing to do with the rights that have been bestowed over the years as a result of changes in government, they are two completely different subjects. Just because those rights have been given doesn't entitle others to be taken away.

Also, your references to previous school shootings in the distant past have some flaws of their own...

The first one was during a time when Indians were still slaying people over land disputes, so I would exclude that entirely. Another was clearly stated as an ACCIDENT, with no intent on killing anyone. Two more were during a time of war across the country. The time between the Indian story and the next one on your list is 100-150 years apart, not just a few months or years like we've been seeing in this generation. Clearly, something has changed and it has nothing to do with the availability of guns, as the speaker in the video eloquently pointed out.

I can see where you're trying to come from on this, but I don't think anyone is going to join you out in left field.

To the OP, that man is incredibly insightful given that he was not born in this country. I applaud him for standing up for the rights of others where the second amendment is concerned.

S&F

~Namaste

reply to post by SmoothRhythm


Excellent points, two exactly pro 2A and legal immigrant.

More toward the video in the OP, there is societal decay going on.
Back when I was a youngin.... ... .. .
We would go places, my family, my friends, even folks I did not know so well.
When out you meet all sorts of people, some were not exactly social people.
Back when people had to learn to interact with all sorts of people, otherwise there would be a brawl or worse.
Nowadays folks hardly ever meet others face to face, even their family members.
Everybody is busy updating their facebook page with their newest boast, generally a lie or drama and people get terribly harsh behind their keyboards.
I know I do, but I'm a %$#@ in person as well, hey ima old fart, it's what we do.
People are losing the art of diplomacy!
I think this is just one form of societal decay.

reply to post by WaterBottle

I don't get it. I guess people are getting mad because I'm not blindly agreeing with this guys speech because its pro-gun?

Not at all! I feel most of the ire directed at you is because you are intentionally distorting his speech. He didn't say "school shootings didn't happen in the past". He said "MASS school shootings didn't happen in the past" after he referenced a time that people were actually held responsible for their actions. Now we tend to blame the tool for those actions. That is SOCIETAL DECAY in my book.

See ya,
Milt

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by g146541

 

Would you surrender your arms to these people?? I certainly wouldn't.

I wouldn't either.

I am truly glad you feel this way.
Now please, grab the oar and start rowing in the direction we are.
Maybe the guy is wrong, I don't believe he is.
But either way, the anti gunners do far worse and make outright lies, the least we all could do who are pro gun is not allow "them" to divide us.

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

It's been a lot worse in the past.

Let's just make a little list

The USA of past
--------------------
Women were property or 2nd class citizens
Minorities people were property 2nd class citizens
Minorities were murdered for no reason, routinely no one was prosecuted
Segregation was normal
Only land owners could vote
Japanese Americans put info concentration camps
German Americans put into concentration camps
Multiple presidents personally owned slaves
Communists openly persecuted
Workers routinely abused
Sweat shops common place
Child labor common place
Businesses free to dump poison waste into rivers
Businesses free to have dangerous working conditions
Businesses would murder their employees when they attempted to unionize
Animals had no rights

All I can think of at the moment...

Instead of women being property now their children are property of the state.
Minority groups are still marginalised (what cave are you living in?)
Segregation is still normal and quite natural. People still form cliques based on race and culture.
You think concentrations camps cannot happen again?
Workers are still routinely abused, just not in a physical sense. The financial system and the banking cartel have bent them over.
Sweat shops have been exported overseas.
Child labor has been exported overseas.
Businesses now dump waste in the town water and they are paid to do it.

American society is in decay and you are in denial.

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne

Societal decay has nothing to do with the rights that have been bestowed over the years as a result of changes in government, they are two completely different subjects. Just because those rights have been given doesn't entitle others to be taken away.

Rights were only one part of it. The majority of societies attitude was the other. Women were considered property because of male chauvinism, not the other way around. The same applies for most of the list.

The time between the Indian story and the next one on your list is 100-150 years apart, not just a few months or years like we've been seeing in this generation. Clearly, something has changed and it has nothing to do with the availability of guns, as the speaker in the video eloquently pointed out.

Less people, less guns, less schools, less ease of transportation, less recorded history etc.

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

Instead of women being property now their children are property of the state.

Not really. Don't abuse your children and your chance of getting them taken away is slim to none.

Minority groups are still marginalised (what cave are you living in?)

Yes, I understand this. But it is nothing like it was 50 years ago. The whole point was that society was progressing.

Segregation is still normal and quite natural. People still form cliques based on race and culture.

Legally mandated segregation. Black people could not buy houses in white neighborhoods, could not even enter certain white neighborhoods, just walking around.

You think concentrations camps cannot happen again?

They can sure happen.

Workers are still routinely abused, just not in a physical sense. The financial system and the banking cartel have bent them over.

Yes, but the whole point was society progressed from one point to the other.

Sweat shops have been exported overseas.
Child labor has been exported overseas.

Yes but we are talking about the USA.

Businesses now dump waste in the town water and they are paid to do it.

I guess you're talking about fluoride? In which multiple cities have banned.

American society is in decay and you are in denial.

American society is sure of a hell of a lot better than it was at one point.

reply to post by g146541


I agree 100%. In my town, people don't even look each other in the eyes anymore. When you walk passed somebody, it seems to be customary to just stare at the ground and pretend no one is even there.

When I was growing up, I was taught to either give a nod and/or a friendly smile followed by a "Hello".

I'd give somebody the money out of my wallet if they can walk by 10 strangers today and get a hello out of 5 of them.

Originally posted by SmoothRhythm
reply to post by g146541

 

I agree 100%. In my town, people don't even look each other in the eyes anymore. When you walk passed somebody, it seems to be customary to just stare at the ground and pretend no one is even there.

When I was growing up, I was taught to either give a nod and/or a friendly smile followed by a "Hello".

I'd give somebody the money out of my wallet if they can walk by 10 strangers today and get a hello out of 5 of them.

Only frightened people stare at the ground. I always nod and say hello. It is a good way to "feel out" the other person. I don't think you've actually tried your experiment because I get back a near perfect 100% in nods, smiles and hello's back. What I see most frequently reflected on strange faces is something like relief, followed by pleasure. Give it a try...oh,... and pay up! LOL

reply to post by SunnyDee


Good thread. I gave a star and flag even though I think I disagree with this guy.
Societal decay is no easy fix, at least we have not been able to do it, and it is probably the biggest REASON we need to enforce existing gun control laws. This is no time to relax so one industry can prosper at the expense of the rest of us being picked off like arcade ducks. Were it up to the NRA, AK47s would be sold to prepubescent boys and every girl and housewife would have one in pink. It just isn't smart. There's a reason we don't live in Dodge City anymore.

Guns are like pharmaceuticals. You shouldn't PUSH them and if you foolishly do, there will be repercussions and probably an Aesop's fable warning against it.

IMO >Our societal DECAY can be directly linked to the sudden dramatic PUSHING every kind of pharmaceutical DRUG under the sun to mothers, fathers and children via TV ads since when...the seventies? That UPSURGE in drug use has affected all generations since in a myriad of VERY NEGATIVE ways.

If we could go back in time to Mayberry RFD that would be great. We might keep the guns easy to acquire by mail but we live in an open air asylum now. That, along with the PROLIFERATION of assault weapons and THE EASE with which criminals and certifiable nuts can buy them is proving to be dangerous, life threatening, and hazardous to the health of the rest of us.

Tyranny? Third Reich? This is more likely to rise up from disgruntled factions of violent anarchist among us. We could as easily be living in Libertarian Camps soon and upstarts picked off by snipers. These extremist militants are more apt to try and overthrow the government and anyone else that disagrees with them. Some of those Crazed Fundamentalists with guns - that's who I think we need to fear. This guy who killed the bus driver and took the kid hostage is a good example. Neighbors said he was an anarchist who listened to right wing talk radio all day. We don't need MORE barbarians and increasingly violent solutions.

And you know, people have never been able to answer me:
"What is this government going to do with us all, once it has us?"
It already feeds half of us and I don't see any big projects in the works...LOL

With our right to bear arms, (yeah we still can) our freedom to assemble freely
and speak our minds, with our clear memory of the past, and our Constitutional protections,
our government is NOT going to take us over.
It's laughable.

I am more afraid of aliens.

Originally posted by g146541

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by g146541

 

Would you surrender your arms to these people?? I certainly wouldn't.

I wouldn't either.

I am truly glad you feel this way.
Now please, grab the oar and start rowing in the direction we are.
Maybe the guy is wrong, I don't believe he is.
But either way, the anti gunners do far worse and make outright lies, the least we all could do who are pro gun is not allow "them" to divide us.

You are drifting off yourself.

Anti-gunners?
Is that what you call people in favor of background checks? I think most sane people are in favor of background checks. I mean how can you not be? I am staying put with the 70% of the people on this but you can fragment off if you think you must but remember when you say "us" you are talking about a splinter group.

What people don't always know is that a hefty portion of pro-gunners (LOL-sorry) actually do have some other illegal activity to hide. What people won't do to enjoy their animal cruelty, child abuse/trafficking, incest, drug & weapons dealing, meth factories & moonshine without those pesky government busy bodies snooping around the homestead. Freedom? Not for everyone involved.

reply to post by newcovenant


The best point of the many inb that video was the last point. He said the 2nd amendment is there for only one purpose, and that is in the event of a doomsday scenario, and when all other amendments have been demolished, that one would be for our final stand.

I don't like guns, but I respect them. I know that having them raises the possiblility of their actual use. I get that. But I also get that we live in a changing nation. It is clear that our govt, is becoming very controlling over our personal lives, which goes against a free people. The 16 page memo from our president this week is a clear example that our rights are being squashed. So far, no one in congress has done one thing to stop this progression. We are on that slippery slope, where nations crumble for lack of a stand!

The second amendment is the point of this man's speech in the video. It's not about school shootings, it's about our govt wanting to dismantle one of our most important amendments that is written just for such oncoming tyranical actions.

Originally posted by SunnyDee
reply to post by newcovenant

 

The best point of the many inb that video was the last point. He said the 2nd amendment is there for only one purpose, and that is in the event of a doomsday scenario, and when all other amendments have been demolished, that one would be for our final stand.

I don't like guns, but I respect them. I know that having them raises the possiblility of their actual use. I get that. But I also get that we live in a changing nation. It is clear that our govt, is becoming very controlling over our personal lives, which goes against a free people. The 16 page memo from our president this week is a clear example that our rights are being squashed. So far, no one in congress has done one thing to stop this progression. We are on that slippery slope, where nations crumble for lack of a stand!

The second amendment is the point of this man's speech in the video. It's not about school shootings, it's about our govt wanting to dismantle one of our most important amendments that is written just for such oncoming tyranical actions.

The government isn't getting controlling as much as nosy and in the interest of National Security.
If people do not understand that there is a SHADOW GOVERNMENT working behind the scenes and driving agendas that are all monetarily based, they have nothing to do with freedom either keeping it or taking it away. They are making some company and it's execs a lot of money.

Our government is OF, BY AND FOR THE PEOPLE.

We elected these politicians and we can drive them to do whatever we want. People lowered the voting age so kids who were drafted could vote. They did it in like 6 months. It does not have to be as unproductive as it is. Government can work for us if we know how to use it and agree on something. The reason it doesn't seem to is both simple and complicated.

Their are forces at work deliberately dividing us and clouding issues. This is so we cannot all join forces and say THIS IS WHAT WE WANT and get it done. If and when we do that - we change things.

So to thwart this power we have, not the government but the shadow plutocracy within it, throws out all sorts of red herrings, lies and conspiracy theories to muddle issues and confuse people and get them to oppose each other in any way they can that works, be it through political ideology, gender, religion or race differences, anything that keeps us divided.

They "Corporate Entities" are pointing fingers at "government" because they know once our government PROTECTIONS are stripped away we are vulnerable to their decisions and can't fight them while they lower min. wage, workplace safety standards and the legal payout for loss of a human life. Think about it...Dark and shadowy (Republican) political factions are keeping the Department of Labor Relations inoperable by not appointing a Director. This department represents and speaks on behalf of the American Laborer. He is the backbone of the country and without him we are lost but financiers (the GOP) want to give him and millions of other WORKERS the shaft so 1 boss can pocket that much more in profits skimping on pay and benefit.

These Corporate Entities are working overtime hiring lobbyists and shills to make the public think their problems and poor situation is because of the Laborers, or the Teachers, the gays or because we took prayer out of schools, or have too many Police and Firemen and in the same way they are claiming we have too much Government.

Don't fall for it.

Beautiful "free speech," by a patriotic "legal immigrant."

America is a crucible of cultures. Americans are a sovereign people, subordinate only to the U.S. Constitution, and NOT to a cruel oppressive self-serving corrupt tyrannical government.

Bear military grade firearms, form skilled neighborhood militias. Be prepared to protect your family, and your community from the criminal authoritarianism that is emerging in this country.

United we stand, divided we fall.

F.T.G.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by g146541

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by g146541

 

Would you surrender your arms to these people?? I certainly wouldn't.

I wouldn't either.

I am truly glad you feel this way.
Now please, grab the oar and start rowing in the direction we are.
Maybe the guy is wrong, I don't believe he is.
But either way, the anti gunners do far worse and make outright lies, the least we all could do who are pro gun is not allow "them" to divide us.

You are drifting off yourself.

Anti-gunners?
Is that what you call people in favor of background checks? I think most sane people are in favor of background checks. I mean how can you not be? I am staying put with the 70% of the people on this but you can fragment off if you think you must but remember when you say "us" you are talking about a splinter group.

What people don't always know is that a hefty portion of pro-gunners (LOL-sorry) actually do have some other illegal activity to hide. What people won't do to enjoy their animal cruelty, child abuse/trafficking, incest, drug & weapons dealing, meth factories & moonshine without those pesky government busy bodies snooping around the homestead. Freedom? Not for everyone involved.

edit on 7-2-2013 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

Hardly drifting here, in fact I think any law beyond what the forefathers put down on paper is an absolute nogo.
Yes, I even think the average citizen should be able to posess suppresed and full auto weaponry, tax free if they are a free man or woman.
I think it's kinda cool how I have existed as long as I have without any "illegal activity", well I did get a speeding ticket nearly 30 years ago, and I am a smoker, and I have had a drink here and there.
Nice attempt at demonizing a crowd.
I don't need you to thank me for being so stalwart in my support of the 2A, you know the reason you have your 1A and the ability to post on ths board.
I consider any negative talk at all on the 2A an anti-gunner attack, after all we are demonized for no reason at all an attacked continually for just wanting our rights.

Originally posted by seasoul
Beautiful "free speech," by a patriotic "legal immigrant."

America is a crucible of cultures. Americans are a sovereign people, subordinate only to the U.S. Constitution, and NOT to a cruel oppressive self-serving corrupt tyrannical government.

Bear military grade firearms, form skilled neighborhood militias. Be prepared to protect your family, and your community from the criminal authoritarianism that is emerging in this country.

United we stand, divided we fall.

F.T.G.

edit on 7-2-2013 by seasoul because: "Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth." - Gandhi

I am more afraid of you than of them. I am the government until people like you take it away from me and hand it over to corporate interest on a silver platter. Eroding ability of this government to protect it's people from corporate corruption and damage caused by them is not doing us any favors. People who think so are ignorant of our rights and protections and are helping deliberate actions to weaken those rights, freedoms and civil protections.

reply to post by newcovenant

Agreed. Just think the dismantling, no matter who is pulling the strings will be our downfall. SO....this video should go viral!

When the people are constantly reminded of what the constitution represents, we may eventually have the strength to protect it.

reply to post by g146541

Hardly drifting here, in fact I think any law beyond what the forefathers put down on paper is an absolute nogo.

Then there are about a hundred thousand that have to go. This thing has been bastardized and ammended in every way shape and form to suit corporate interest and take rights away from the people.

Hello! ?
A fertilized egg will soon have more rights than you do and a corporation now has person hood and the same rights as an individual.

Do you think that helps out WE THE PEOPLE in any way at all?

DO YOU THINK THAT BIG CHANGE HELPS THE US GOVERNMENT?




It doesn't.
Follow the money or you shouldn't even be playing this game.

Originally posted by SunnyDee
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Agreed. Just think the dismantling, no matter who is pulling the strings will be our downfall. SO....this video should go viral!

When the people are constantly reminded of what the constitution represents, we may eventually have the strength to protect it.

I agree with you. I think our government and Constitutional provisions are like a foreign tech gadget that came with an instruction booklet most people never bothered to look at until fairly recently. We use the minimum functions and don't really get all we can out of it because we have not read the instructions thoroughly and we do not even know all the many programs apps and tasks we can actually complete with this thing! Unfortunately there is a sideshow distracting us from the task of learning how to use it too. You should not have to be a Constitutional lawyer to understand the Constitution. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Who is happy? Don't answer right away....