Metaphysics: How did it all start?

Seeing as the belief in life after death, reincarnation, and things like out of body experiences can't be reproduced in a lab or worked out in a scientific formula, I asked myself, "Where did all of these beliefs come from?"

My answer (though admittedly not a professional one) is that these beliefs got started from people saying things like:
1. When I died on the operating table I found myself flying toward a bright light.
2. I had the strangest dream, though it was too real to be a dream. I dreamed that I was the Queen of Sheba and ...
3. Whoa, dude! I took some (insert a mind-altering substance here) and I soared through the universe. It was real!

If any of this got started in a different way, please let us know, because to be honest it really sounds ridiculous to me.

reply to post by jiggerj


hehe,, you already said it all, man

Originally posted by jiggerj
Seeing as the belief in life after death, reincarnation, and things like out of body experiences can't be reproduced in a lab or worked out in a scientific formula, I asked myself, "Where did all of these beliefs come from?"

Good question!

When we can't explain something, it is in our nature try to explain it anyway. When we try to explain something we can't explain, our worldview is fused into our explanation. Our worldview is the bias that our experiences and upbringing has created, and this worldview drives our explanations of the unexplainable.

We can't explain death, so how do we explain it? Depending on our influences and experiences we will try to rationalize it differently. Christians say we go to heaven, Buddhists and Hindus say we are reincarnated, Epicureans say there is nothingness. Very few people are comfortable with simply admitting "I don't know, and I can't know."

reply to post by jiggerj


Could be as simple jiggerj as youthful CREATOR Creations not knowing their FULL potentials in relation too Soul/Spirit/Internal Energy coming in contact with elder CREATOR Creations who DO, and have the Knowledge of these Elder Experienced gained ways of existing.

So for Ex:
you got 1 species that knows of say what are known as paranormal/metaphysical technologies and abilities and another species that does not, but may possess similar? attributes
Further then add the species that did not know finding out clues of those who did but didn't understand fully or were not Aware of what they encountered.

NAMASTE
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******

The energy about us, thats how it started. The energy that binds. The infinate within each of us. Nothing to with drugs and dreams and this sort of thing. Meta - physics.

Originally posted by jiggerj
Seeing as the belief in life after death, reincarnation, and things like out of body experiences can't be reproduced in a lab or worked out in a scientific formula, I asked myself, "Where did all of these beliefs come from?"

My answer (though admittedly not a professional one) is that these beliefs got started from people saying things like:
1. When I died on the operating table I found myself flying toward a bright light.
2. I had the strangest dream, though it was too real to be a dream. I dreamed that I was the Queen of Sheba and ...
3. Whoa, dude! I took some (insert a mind-altering substance here) and I soared through the universe. It was real!

If any of this got started in a different way, please let us know, because to be honest it really sounds ridiculous to me.

edit on 2/6/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

Great post man! You really captured yourself there in a nutshell.

If you are sincerely interested, then I sincerely hope that you find out the answers to the questions that you have. But you know, you have to have a place for that stuff to roost, if you want it to fly home.

Also, boats are safe in harbour, but boats are not built for that.

And so on.

This is likely not the answer, but it is as good a place to jump in as any, IMHO (always wanted to use that acronym).

www.lycaeum.org...

Happy Trails.

There are two things you forgot:
1. People either being told by or claiming to have been told by higher beings;
2. A psychological desire to believe in a life after death due to fear of death, and the resulting beliefs leading to various cults and belief systems.

reply to post by jiggerj


the universe is weird

the universe is incredible and so is existing and being alive within it and of it

we do not really know anything about it

my logic tells me something has existed for an infinite and eternal amount of time

which leads me to believe this universe can have a really interesting reason and story behind its creation and purpose...

about reincarnation; energy matter is not created or destroyed... the atoms that make up your body once made up something else... why are you, you, and not a dog, or a fly, or bird, or fish ( some form of consciousness, relatively similar to yours, drives each of those creatures and every living creature... perhaps it was a cosmic casino roll of the dice that they are stuck being a fish, and you lucked out being a man... or perhaps you will sometime exist as a fish... or beyond man)

reply to post by Xoanon

This is likely not the answer, but it is as good a place to jump in as any, IMHO (always wanted to use that acronym). www.lycaeum.org... Happy Trails.

Read it. Sounds pretty logical to me. I knew a mind-altering substance had to come into play somewhere.

a more appropriate question would be ...
who?why?and when did 'they' start telling us that reincarnation/ past lives don't exsist.

dig a little deeper.

reply to post by ImaFungi

about reincarnation; energy matter is not created or destroyed... the atoms that make up your body once made up something else...

Hi Ima. When you think about it, we KNOW where our bodies came from. Sperm and egg. The atoms in our bodies come from one cell splitting into two, then ten, then 100 trillion...with the energy supplied by the food we eat. But, when we die those atoms will be ingested by other living things, and that's as close to reincarnation as our energy matter will get.

Oh wait, are you talking about the energy that made up the atoms, meaning that just the energy made up something else before it made up MY atoms? If so, I misunderstood. Please disregard this post. Sorry.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

about reincarnation; energy matter is not created or destroyed... the atoms that make up your body once made up something else...

Hi Ima. When you think about it, we KNOW where our bodies came from. Sperm and egg. The atoms in our bodies come from one cell splitting into two, then ten, then 100 trillion...with the energy supplied by the food we eat. But, when we die those atoms will be ingested by other living things, and that's as close to reincarnation as our energy matter will get.

Oh wait, are you talking about the energy that made up the atoms, meaning that just the energy made up something else before it made up MY atoms? If so, I misunderstood. Please disregard this post. Sorry.

edit on 2/6/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

Hey jiggeri,

The atoms in our body(and energy) comes from the food we eat... Sperm and egg are made possible by the food the owner of said sperm and egg ate, coupled with the DNA of their parents (which is their DNA)...

I didnt quite have in mind what exactly I was talking about, just thinking and speculating..

What I think is though that what we are made of, has been with the universe since the beginning, and will till the end ( if there is such a thing), you and I were just blipped into existence for a bleep of time, we are more 'the universe' then we are ourselves,,, though I think the idea behind life, is the universe creating the individual self, because isnt it so great to be someone? So in that affect, we are ourselves... I guess what im saying is the whole new agey motto.. I am he as you are he as we are me and we are all together... So we popped up as life forms now... maybe we wont remember it.. but maybe weve popped up before and will again... now going along with what i just said before that...that statement is nonsensical, because my children popping up is me ( because im the universe, and so are they) and their grandchildren and my neighbors grandchildren popping up ( is me popping up again... because I am only me temporarily,, and all i am is the universe, or nature)....

now it could be that there is a God, and he is cool... and will greet us after we die and show us around the place and tell us all the secrets... It could be he wants us to learn what he has learned, and so he puts us through these situations, and tests, and trials, and experiences.. to buffer us until we are ready to join his frat...

it could be there is no god, and we are just momentary bubbles in a glass of water,, who form and pop...

could be the universe is one of many sets representing a computation of physical infinity in which you and I are singularities, place holders in an infinite and eternal equation...

ones thing for certain..... I dont know.... and I hate not knowing.... this hatred of being ignorant is probably what created man.. and will propel man into the future... I can try to accept my ignorance... I can try to sate it by thinking and thinking of possibilities, but there is no closure or certainty in that... it seems science is the only way to get closer to some sort of 'knowing'...

if there is no god, we become god through science and our abilities via our knowledge...

Originally posted by jiggerj
1. When I died on the operating table I found myself flying toward a bright light.

If any of this got started in a different way, please let us know, because to be honest it really sounds ridiculous to me.

This actually happened to me, i'm not sure if you ever read that story.

Although it wasn't a bright light, the room began to swirl just as it faded into a grey freezing haze where the OR was moments before. The nurses panicking and the sound the long heart monitor beep faded as well.

I was removed from my body and floated into where the ceiling was where I woke up in a different part of the hospital the next day. Only seconds after it happened.

Ridiculous. Because I try to be as rational as possible, it's always hard for me to truly believe in it.
But it happened. Just like that...

As for your question, I couldn't tell you. For me, it was very real. Death happened, and I came back to life.

reply to post by jiggerj


Metaphysics arose from the speculations of nature. When the ancients speculated the stars and the nature of the universe, they did so within a branch of philosophy Aristotle called 'metaphysics.' Most scientific questions in ancient Greece was sent to the metaphysicians.

After the evolution of the scientific method, metaphysics became the speculation of things which cannot be proved by empirical evidence, but by arguments, logic and inference. Things such as knowledge, being, the mind, the soul etc. were pondered.

Now, it is basically religion in a pseudo-scientific dress (Deepak Chopra, greg braden). True metaphysics is all but lost.

If you're interested, I dare you to read Aristotle's Metaphysics

Omniscience, to be true to Self definition of omnipresence, required upon Itself to exist even inside of non-existence. The kinetics to "go there" is infinite geometric division and subtraction. The implosion we call the Singularity.

Fail.

Infinite kinetic rate and angular diversity imposed upon this one Singularity produces a "flight path". Where the Singularity IS, as a collective of the flight path, is the infinite expanse. Where the Singularity IS NOT, as a collective of the flight path, is the created non-existence that can be used to have proxies enter into it, omniscience bolt on to those proxies in Communion and the mission is complete. Omnipresence inside of non-existence.

We are those proxies. (As are all lifeforms within spacetime).

reply to post by TheSubversiveOne


classics.mit.edu...

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

classics.mit.edu...

Thanks for the link! I'll give it a try, but it's so frustrating reading something and not remembering it. I read a book every two weeks, and I have absolutely no clue the last book I read.

reply to post by jiggerj


Some times the journey is more important then the destination

If you are occupying your time and stimulating your mind in the moment and enjoying it... good for you.

if your life depends on the information your reading...bad for you.

if you would like to remember important aspects of what you are reading... take notes.

you will not remember what is discussed in this book...because getting through it will be a miracle

from wiki:

"Many scholars believe that Aristotle's works as we have them today are little more than lecture notes.[9] Plenty of his works are extremely compressed and baffling to beginners. Nowhere is this more evident than in the Metaphysics - Ibn Sina (Avicenna), who was one of the greatest Islamic philosophers in the Medieval age, said that he had read the Metaphysics of Aristotle forty times, but still did not understand it. Later he read the book of al-Farabi, Purposes of Metaphysics of Aristotle, and understood Aristotle's book"

reply to post by ImaFungi


Because this book was lecture notes, reading it is boring and really not worth anyone's time, unless they are interested in the historical aspect or would like to see in the mind of a genius.

It helps to realize that every advance in philosophy and logic had to do so against the prevailing authority of Aristotle's teachings, right up until this day. Many philosophers proved him wrong in many areas but retracted their arguments because they never thought proving him wrong was possible. His teachings represented a stagnation in philosophy. This wasn't Aristotle's fault, but that of his students mixed with the church giving his teachings supreme authority in metaphysics.

Therefore his teachings are unnecessary and even dangerous if taken as truth.

The value in Aristotle isn't in what he thought, but how he thought.

Originally posted by trollz
There are two things you forgot:
1. People either being told by or claiming to have been told by higher beings;
2. A psychological desire to believe in a life after death due to fear of death, and the resulting beliefs leading to various cults and belief systems.

There any many people such as myself that experience strange phenomenons on daily basis. These phenomenons have no scientific holding, no way to observe it outside the person that is experiencing it. But I guess it's much easier to pawn it of some rational explanation such as a psychological desire. That is something someone would say who have no experience in this whats so ever.