Total Stealth IP - The Answer

Here's a topic that, I feel, needs some more professional research.

I am wondering whether or not it is possible that the technology exists to totally cloak one's IP so that you could surf the net without leaving a trace.

Now, I am not talking about an alias IP where your real IP gets switched around.

Nor am I talking about a lack of an IP address showing on the Web Stats.

I am talking Total Stealth IP in which there is absolutely no trace left of your passing.

I joined a forum of computer experts simply to ask them this question and this is the reply I got:

"No, not possible. If you have reasonable tracking software or even just have your apache logs properly configured there is always some 'trace' - even if it's only the 200 /page.html with no images, referer or anything there will always be a record of the get/post request."

I also got a second opinion from another professional who, basically, said the same thing.

However, I have experienced more than my share of strange occurances on my Web Site and I am convinced that this technology is out there and being used.

"If there is nothing that fits all the facts than, whatever theory that does fit all the facts, regardlesss of how impossible it may be believe , must be the truth."

Now, maybe it is just that someone has hacked into my site, which is possible, but I have also experienced irregular activity, to say the least, in several other web sites which leads me to this conclusion.

So, is Total Stealth IP's possible or not...


[edit on 10/28/04 by jesterbr549]

I have heard of a router that you assign a 12 digit number to such as 123456551212 and then proxy through the router. The router 123456551212 sends the post/get and the server responds to 123456551212 and back to you. It was a year or so ago so I will have to see if I can find the site.

It was also able to be cloned where if 2 or more users had this number assinged in different areas requests were reponded to all routers with identical number.

i say yes but i say its hidden

say like im discovered the most stealth of stealth of ip, id keep it to myself for as long as possible. why? its only when known about that method that some person will find away to overcome it and track you down again.

so hide it if you find it, so stealth can be properly stealth - my advice, lol!

Originally posted by evecasino
It was a year or so ago so I will have to see if I can find the site. It was also able to be cloned where if 2 or more users had this number assinged in different areas requests were reponded to all routers with identical number.

Yeah, if you can find it again could you post the URL in this thread. That would be great and I would like to check it out.

Am wondering if this would still leave a 'signiature' if you will - an alias IP as I called it...

Originally posted by jesterbr549
Am wondering if this would still leave a 'signiature' if you will - an alias IP as I called it...

No it wouldn't. I remeber it said that you assign whatever 12 digit or higher number you wanted to the router and then your connection proxies through the router.

Now unless you would use your SS number, phone or CC number on the router I wouldn't worry.

Total stealth is impossible imo. If you are 'on the net, you are on the net' so to speak.
I agree with evecasino about internet banking etc. I never use it.


Sanc'.

i know you can spoof your ip address
�-p� spoof�ing) (n.) A technique used to gain unauthorized access to computers, whereby the intruder sends messages to a computer with an IP address indicating that the message is coming from a trusted host. To engage in IP spoofing, a hacker must first use a variety of techniques to find an IP address of a trusted host and then modify the packet headers so that it appears that the packets are coming from that host.

www.webopedia.com...

good luck

Originally posted by jesterbr549
Here's a topic that, I feel, needs some more professional research.

I am wondering whether or not it is possible that the technology exists to totally cloak one's IP so that you could surf the net without leaving a trace.

Now, I am not talking about an alias IP where your real IP gets switched around.

Nor am I talking about a lack of an IP address showing on the Web Stats.

I am talking Total Stealth IP in which there is absolutely no trace left of your passing.

I joined a forum of computer experts simply to ask them this question and this is the reply I got:

"No, not possible. If you have reasonable tracking software or even just have your apache logs properly configured there is always some 'trace' - even if it's only the 200 /page.html with no images, referer or anything there will always be a record of the get/post request."

I also got a second opinion from another professional who, basically, said the same thing.

However, I have experienced more than my share of strange occurances on my Web Site and I am convinced that this technology is out there and being used.

"If there is nothing that fits all the facts than, whatever theory that does fit all the facts, regardlesss of how impossible it may be believe , must be the truth."

Now, maybe it is just that someone has hacked into my site, which is possible, but I have also experienced irregular activity, to say the least, in several other web sites which leads me to this conclusion.

So, is Total Stealth IP's possible or not...

Why would you ask such a thing ?? Is it possible for a programmer ... LoL ... They built the computer ... They can manipulate it as they wish if they can read the language. =-) ... ... ... But learning the scripted language is ... pretty difficult task ... here ... you know what this says ????? Well was gogin to put the source code to this page on here but can't get it to come up .. So .. I am sure someone has tried to explain this all to you ... But I can't I do not know how .... =-) ... PEACE >>> But it can be done. ...Think about it like this ... b/c it will help you better understand ...

Can a magician saw a lady in half ??? does it appear that a magician can saw a lady in half ?? This is your answer !@!! It appears to be sawed in half .. LoL .. It may appear that nothing is there but if anotherprogrammer comes in behind him

Total Stealth IP. It's as easy as receiving mail without an address.

As a software developer, I've made my share of programs that use tcp/ip. I can assure you that what you are seeking is not possible. Your question is basically an oxymoron. Computers don't carry on conversations per-say. They send packets of data, that include instructions on how to respond. You could compare them to letters. Here's a good example for you:

Being a clever person, you devise a plan to get free pizza. You can't physically get to the pizza store, so you have the pizza delivered. We are going to use the mail carrier (Internet) to deliver the pizza. We send a letter to the pizza store saying we want a large pizza. Being clever, so we wouldn't have to pay for the pizza, we place the wrong return address on the pizza. What happens when the pizza store sends a letter back confirming your order? It goes to the wrong address, and the person who receives it throws it away as junk mail. (Hey! I didn't order a pizza)

Even if you could get a second party to accept the pizza for you and then have them deliver it you, the pizza store would still have the address of the place that they took the pizza to. And that is a direct link to you since the second party knows where you are. (They brought you a pizza right?) This might be what you call an anonomyizer. They will hide your IP from sites for privacy reason, ( You don't want your boss to know you spend all your time at ATS) but they will squeal like a pig if you attempt any illegal activity through their service. Also you haven't covered your tracks very well if you boss sees you've been visiting DontTellAnyoneWhereI'veBeenSurfing.com It will actually make you more of a suspect. I think the best stealth is to be in plain site.


This is actually a very simplistic view, as computer conversations are much more complex than that. In short, how can you receive information if you don't tell anyone where you are. Thats why people invented encryption. An observer will know where you are, but they won't know what you are saying.



A side note. While this conversation is fine to have, let me remind everyone of the site Terms and Conditions of Use:

You will not use these Forums for the purposes of sharing or distributing viruses, licenses, registration information, software keys, "cracks," or other information designed to do harm to or allow unlawful access to any computer hardware, software, networks, or any other systems.

If this turns into a "How can we do something illegal and get away with it" thread it's getting closed and trash-binned.

they dont catch all the virus writers so I'd assume yes there is a way however I doubt those who know are going to tell just anyone how

I can't find the link but as I said it is a router that simulates IP.

Please don't just take anyone's answer that no it cannot be done because it can. I will continue to look for the site.

All routers I trouble shoot have a 192.168.?.? IP, all of them.
this could be because they have hard firewalls in them.

my router has the same ip as you do

some routers replace ip adresses with the companies

whats the point of it anyway?

Originally posted by valkeryie
All routers I trouble shoot have a 192.168.?.? IP, all of them.
this could be because they have hard firewalls in them.

The router I speak of is programable. You enter a 12 digit or higher number into the router. You call up a page your router takes the info from you passes it to the page and the page responds to the number you assigned your router, your router then passes it back to your IP.

If my IP was 12.34.56.789 and I programmed the router with 123456789012 then my IP would pass the info to router and 123456789012 would request the info. The host page would reply to 123456789012 which is the router and the router to my IP. Done.
It could also spoof IP addys.

Being a developer myself I'd have to agree with dbates. The internet is based on packet-switching. Every message you send, every website you browse can be routed through a myriad of routers around the country/world. That way, a router that is down does not shut down a particular route.

On another note, if you're looking for anonymous surfing here are some links. I've used anonymizer before.

www.google.com...

The other technique would be ip or MAC address spoofing which is not something I plan to discuss here.

If you are connected to a router you will have an internal IP address like 172.16.x.x or 192.168.x.x or even 10.10.x.x due to NAT translation. Your IP as seen by others would be the IP of your router or firewall. A good discussion on that is here.

Originally posted by valkeryie
All routers I trouble shoot have a 192.168.?.? IP, all of them.
this could be because they have hard firewalls in them.

That address along with a few others (10/8, 172.16/12, 192.168/16) are all part of private address space (RFC 1918) allocation. They are basically used so that the existing 32 bit IP addresses don't exhaust too soon. Using NAT with those private addresses allows for all types of devices to connect to the Net, reducing IP address waste.

I don't think stealth IP addresses is a possibility in its truest form. Every IP has to route (assuming non rfc 1918) and they are all assigned, thus trackable. A comment was made about virus writers not being caught. I would think those guys probably just bring their code to a public Internet kiosk/cafe, or school and inject it into the wild from there.

brill

jesterbr549
Ill try and give an explination to your original question. Im not a Sys Admin, or anything like that, but I am taking a networking class now for my CEET degree, and Im making a 98 in it, so I think I can still put some good input in this for you.

Try this. If your using Win XP, goto start>run. Type "CMD" and press enter.
After the prompt appears, type tracert abovetopsecret.com. After a few seconds, you will get a list the routes taken.

Im trying to keep my description of this simple as it can get very confusing, so stick with me. Each address you see, from the first one to the last one, is like a street map. An IP address is sort of like your home address. IP's have 4 octets for designation. Which class your IP is,(more in a minute) determins what each octet is. By the way, a typicial IP address looks like (192.245.13.1) . Each set of numbers is an octet, its called that because the IP address is a base 10 representation of a binary number. It takes 8 binary spaces to make an octet. Now for the classes. there are 5 classes, but the last two are designated restricted. The public uses class A, B, and C. In A, the first octet is the adress, and the last three octets are a number given to the computer at that address. You can have many computers at one address. In a class B, the first two octets are the address, and the last two are the computer number. In class C, the first three octets are the address, and the last octet is the computer number. So, look at the IP address like this. The first part tells where its at, and the second part tells you which one your looking at.

Finished with the basic IP address lesson

Now that you know this, you can see that you MUST have an IP address to be found. No IP address, and your not hooked up

I have to agree with those who know how IP works that what is proposed in the thread-starter is not possible under its own terms.

If you want to connect via devices that use IP, you must use IP to do it. It's that simple.

A packet without an IP address or some sort of recognizable and supported alternate routing protocol gets dropped as "garbage".

So a non-IP method requires either an alternate supported protocol or a connection that does not include a router. By definition, Internet communication implies connection to the worldwide Internet, and that means routers will be involved -- IP routers, specifically.

Of course, I suppose anything's possible. Maybe a workaround involving telepathy.

Originally posted by bet555

Why would you ask such a thing ?? Is it possible for a programmer ... LoL ... They built the computer ... They can manipulate it as they wish if they can read the language. =-) ... ... ... But learning the scripted language is ... pretty difficult task ... here ... you know what this says ????? Well was gogin to put the source code to this page on here but can't get it to come up .

Not neccessarily about programmers doing as such. You'de be suprised how many programmers can not manipulate a PC beyond testing their own code, let alone manipulate TCP/IP. Just for a matter of technicallity, one would have to be TCP/IP programmer, as opposed to any programmer. Like a car mechanic trying to build a house.

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Whoever came up with the pizza analogy for tunneling, lol, I like that one!!

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Misfit

[Edit = can't spell my own damn name !!]

[edit on 30-10-2004 by Misfit]

there are a couple products out there that hide your ip, here is one

www.anonymizer.com...