US Government Training in our cities?

~So seeing this Miami thing with the choppers coming in and "training". This has happened in my home town of Portland Oregon (Because they already know where I live) and it created quite the panic! Here are some more youtube clips.


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~This video they say, "This is common, you want to train for an environment your going to be dealing with in the future". Well, I don't know where they would be in anywhere in the future where they would need any practice involving the staple center..

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~This one is in my home town, and again.. I can tell you, there were a lot of scared people, this was a little over 4 years ago I remember people worried about another 9/11 incident.

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~ I think this gets my point across. Why not give people warning if its just an exercise? HOW IS THIS ROUTINE? What would have happened if something malfunctioned and they crashed into a building or car..? Doesn't the military have PLENTY of land and computers and facilities to do this OUTSIDE of out Cities??
~At the end of all this, you are still left with more questions then answers, and that's never a good sign!

SOCNORTH is brand new as of 1/1/13. So they're running joint training exercises.

Why notify the city residents? They're not taking part in the exercise. Besides, it adds realism.

reply to post by Bedlam



No way dude.. Dunno if your sucking the teet too or what man but I really don't see how people can be ok with this, Even more so because of the times we are in.

You fight like you train. There's only so much you can learn at Pinetown at Ft Bragg, Shughart-Gordon or San Clemente before you memorize the thing and then start cheating. Thus, real sorta lifelike training in surprise areas.

More indoctrination

Expose the subject repeatedly to the environment you wish them to operate in, thus when the subject is required to operate in said conditions they can do so without any 'shock of environment'. Focusing on mission and tactical appreciation as opposed to acclimatising to operating in said environment.

In other words
Get your forces used to operating around civilians in a civilian environment so when it comes to live operations the shock and morality questions have largely subsided and the operator can be trusted to operate instinctivly under orders instead of questioning them or hesitating due to that environment

How do you get an operator used to engaging unarmed civilian targets wearing familiar civilian attire in a familiar environment that speaks the same language ?
Yay zombie apocalipse training ! ( as we have recently seen )

It's indoctrination ........brain washing ........probably for the civilians too.....to become accustomed to seeing servicemen on the streets

A small example to give depth to this
The grenade
Through Baisic training and continued throughout it is drilled into the soldier on hearing the word of command GRENADE you are to throw yourself onto the ground in the laying possition in order to put your body below the cone of blast of the grenade
This is drilled in continuously ......in the class room, in the accommodation, in the gym, on a run .......you hear someone shout grenade .......there's body's throwing themselves everywhere to escape this invisible grenade

Bayonette is the same .............you scream unguard at a soldier and see the reaction you get !
It's indoctrination, low level brainwashing ..making a reaction instinctive

Experience something enough times in training .........then when it comes to live .......there's no hesitation ...no delay....just reaction

I have been instructed this way ........the military instructs this way .........I instruct this way
The difference is in experience, the FNG will react as tought, as expected. Where as the more experienced that can make their own assessments will react to a situation not just an order

Yeah, let's send them to the other side of the globe to train. Somewhere like Afghanistan. Oh wait....

reply to post by DaTroof


Interesting you should say that as due to operating in afghan but more so Iraq urban operations, standard operating procedures ( SOP's) and tactics have all evolved to take into account operating within a civilian occupied area against a non uniformed enemy
As opposed to the old east v west Cold War uniformed force on force

The 'counter insurgency'
And that's what you'll be called 'insurgents'

The other scenario I envisage is pathogen containment
The civilian populous exposed/infected with a biological threat that MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO SPREAD
Soldiers in full protective equipment including respirators ( thus impaired sight/smell/hearing ) affecting situational awairness and the added fear of becoming infected ..............one of very few scenarios in my opinion where lethal force against an unarmed civilian populous could be warranted to contain the pathogen or for an individual to use lethal force against an unarmed civilian in keeping with the rule of self defence

How do you get a soldier to shoot an unarmed civilian ...........make the civilian a threat
A threat you can't see, smell, touch or taste .........and if they so much as breath on you .........your screwed

reply to post by Neocrusader


Yeah, that's one possibility.

The other one, and the one that's happening now as far as I have been able to find out from the sideline, is that SOCNORTH's aegis is to interdict foreign nationals from doing evil deeds on the old home soil.

So, yes, the need to train in MOUT among surprised and suspiciously hostile citizenry. That's how it'll happen if they get called out.

It's gonna be their mission. It's not surprising they're training that way.

Originally posted by Bedlam
reply to post by Neocrusader

 

Yeah, that's one possibility.

The other one, and the one that's happening now as far as I have been able to find out from the sideline, is that SOCNORTH's aegis is to interdict foreign nationals from doing evil deeds on the old home soil.

Well don't we have the Border Patrol & FBI who are supposed to be doing that?

What reasonable scenario involves/requires counterinsurgency warfare with aerial munitions on CONUS territory?

Why notify the city residents? They're not taking part in the exercise. Besides, it adds realism.

Well the city is supposed to be full of tax-paying citizens, not subjects, and they happen to be living there.

Originally posted by mbkennel
Well don't we have the Border Patrol & FBI who are supposed to be doing that?

What reasonable scenario involves/requires counterinsurgency warfare with aerial munitions on CONUS territory?

Border Patrol don't much count once they're inside the US. And I'm sure the FBI are involved. The root command structure is NORTHCOM, whose stated mission is:


Conduct operations to deter, prevent, and defeat threats and aggression aimed at the United States, its territories, and interests within the assigned area of responsibility and,

As directed by the President or Secretary of Defense provide military assistance to civil authorities including consequence management operations

source

Given that they also are sort of bound not to "deter prevent and defeat" US citizenry, it would seem that NORTHCOM is in fact for some sort of counterinsurgency mission, failing that, to provide a sort of military liaison to the feds. FBI is not set up for anti-assault action, they're more detectives with some smarts. If you landed a small force in the continental US, the FBI would not be very effective, more, I would suppose they want regular troops more than NG. FBI are also not really ready to provide any sort of anti-terrorist action at the governmental level, that is, if it's Achmed the rogue bomber, maybe, if it's China, not so much.

Thus was the NSA tasked with computer integrity, and NORTHCOM with military action in the continental US.

As far as SOC involvement goes, there are a lot of things that leg military are also not up for, as NG units are not up to leg military. Thus after NORTHCOM went in, a lot of weaknesses in the organic structure were found, papers were written, many a powerpoint was drafted, and a fairly nice summary was drafted at Advanced Military Studies, to wit:

A Theater Special Operations Command (SOC), a sub-unified command, advises combatant commanders on the capabilities of Special Operations Forces (SOF), provides SOF for employment, and integrates SOF fully into theater plans by planning, coordinating, conducting, and supporting the geographical unified commander. The SOC is a trained and resourced rapid deployment joint task force headquarters, if needed. The new unified command, U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM), attained initial operations capability (IOC) on October 1, 2002. NORTHCOM is not organized for success to accomplish its new mission of homeland defense and civil support. NORTHCOM must transform to an organization that can anticipate and adapt to its new missions. By analyzing the planning, command and control, and coordination of SOF support during Hurricane Andrew and the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, it was determined that a SOC would be a critical component to this new organization. The SOC will be vital during both deliberate and crisis action planning, advising on the best method to integrate SOF capabilities. Early planning efforts by SOCOM for SOF support to JTF-Olympics determined only a small JSOTF was needed to coordinate with the lead federal agency for counterterrorism, the FBI. In contrast, JTF-Andrew did not have a Special Operations Coordination element and had to learn the capabilities and limitations of SOF before being able to employ them effectively for the disaster relief efforts. This was a problem in the time-sensitive environment of a massive hurricane recovery operation. SOCNORTH would ensure SOF are integrated into any operational plan, so they can assist NORTHCOM responses to any future homeland crises. SOCNORTH would advise the NORTHCOM commander and ensure SOF are synchronized, coordinated, and deconflicted in any operation assigned to NORTHCOM.

The entire 69 page paper lies here. Note the dates, SOCNORTH launched on 1 Feb, but it's been in the works for 10 years.

Well the city is supposed to be full of tax-paying citizens, not subjects, and they happen to be living there.

Hell, SOC doesn't notify anyone. It's against the rules.

The exercise is much more accurate if you have to encounter and deal with (in a quiet, professional manner) citizenry at their finest, to wit, milling about, getting in the way, and screaming in terror. Think of it as a big fire drill - if you know it's a drill, you won't act like you would if it were a fire. In each case, the city's electorate knew what was going to occur, if the rank and file LEO or citizen did not.

That said, if I were an insurgent, I could come up with a really nice plan to use one of these drills to actually pull off an incident right in the middle of the drill by dressing up in SOC uniforms, but I digress.