Life on earth is living proof Extraterrestials exists.

reply to post by beautyofperil


The universe sure is big. Suppose that humans are at the center of the universe. All those sextrillions, that really big number you mentioned Is going out from us, and an equal number is going into us into the ultimate smallness. Then add in a couple dimensions that we don't ever seen, gotta figure there is life there somewhere. After all there are different forms of life right here where we are. animal, plant, vegetables, trees, plankton, all sorts of different stuff.

It would only make sense that the universe is full of life. Interacting with, understanding, or even comprehending this life form, may not be possible. We want to believe that the universe is a plane along which we exist and along which other life exists.but this may not be the case. Multiply dimensionality may be the reality. and experience across dimensions may be the problem.

Humans experience three dimensions. suppose Aliens experience a larger number of dimensions including ours, or at least some of ours.They can experience us, but we can't experience them. That might explain a lot.

OK I give up, you win, now show me the ETs please?
second
no more discussion, I'll look in now and then to see how many people you have managed to recruit into your belief system.

may the force be with you

reply to post by greatfriendbadfoe


Talk about not being able to think outside the box.
Yours is dice sized.
It's like you're allergic to sensible logic.
If you understood the basic premise of what you're being told, you wouldn't be asking for an actual alien body
to be shown before your very eyes to prove anything.

reply to post by greatfriendbadfoe


Like I said do a google search.

reply to post by okyouwin




Here is a perspective on our predatorial ways I gotta thank Quigon Jinn from star wars 1 for saying, that I feel is kind of relevant to us and what your said:

"There is always a bigger fish."

Which I mean is mankind as a whole being a smaller fish.

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Is it possible to know something with 100% certainty without having immediate proof? My past few replies I have attempted to prove that this is possible to achieve.

I think you can believe something with 100% certainty without having immediate proof, but how do you "know" it without proof? And if you're trying to convince someone else.... guess it just depends on whether they want to believe or not.

Let say I have a nice big glass of highly corrosive acid ( in a container that can withstand hypothetically and obviously)

We pour half this acid over a thick piece of steel and it melts right through it...

Your argument would be, we cannot know for certain drinking this acid will be harmful for a human.. because there is no proof that a human drinking this acid will be harmed... because there is no proof of a human drinking it?

Another example...

I am holding a tennis ball 5 feet above the ground with nothing blocking its path.. a normal empty room.. you do not see me drop it because you are not in my room..... dont you know it will fall to the ground?

Originally posted by Xaphan
I agree that there is life elsewhere in the universe. There has to be. If you were to consider the universe as being every beach on this planet, earth would just be one grain of sand. This can't be it.

I gave you a flag for the good thread, and a star for the puppy

It would require 28,000-plus earths to approximate the number of stars (200+ sextillion) to grains of sand (7+ quintillion). So what you're saying is for every ~28,000 stars, there's an earth.

Our galaxy is supposed to have 100 billion stars. If this 1 in 28,000 stars prediction is true then that would mean 3.5 million earths. HOWEVER, recent surveys have estimated there're 2 BILLION earth analogs in our galaxy. This doesn't mean they have water and life, but they're very earth-like in most ways. But since an earth analog isn't EQUAL to earth, your figure may still remain true.

These numbers I cite aren't EXACT, but they're close, I believe.

Further, to back up my reference to 2 BILLION earth analogs, here:
www.space.com - New Estimate for Alien Earths: 2 Billion in Our Galaxy Alone...

........
After the researchers analyzed the four months of data in this initial batch of readings from Kepler, they determined that 1.4 to 2.7 percent of all sunlike stars are expected to have Earthlike planets — ones that are between 0.8 and two times Earth's diameter and within the habitable zones of their stars.

"This means there are a lot of Earth analogs out there — two billion in the Milky Way galaxy," researcher Joseph Catanzarite, an astronomer at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, told SPACE.com. "With that large a number, there's a good chance life and maybe even intelligent life might exist on some of those planets. And that's just our galaxy alone — there are 50 billion other galaxies."
.......

Please keep in mind earth-like is not equal to an earth analog. Well, not in the way that I'm familiar with the term. They believe there're tens of billions of earth-like planets, but these can be 10 times larger and around suns different than our own. They often will call these super earths.

There's also disagreement about the number of stars. They estimate 100 billion, but it's very likely this is far too low. Based on what I've read, there could be up to a trillion stars in the Milky Way. This is due to the fact many of them are smaller and our measurements aren't perfect.

And I don't believe I've mentioned rogue planets? They estimate anywhere from hundreds of billions to 100 quadrillion in our galaxy. It's possible they could sustain life for short periods with the right conditions. But this is unlikely as a lot of things would have to come together for it to work.

Neither did I mention all the comets and dwarf-planets and asteroids and moons. Folks, when you do the numbers, there's a tremendous undeniable potential for life in the universe. Do not fall for the doubts that many appeal to. They're not paths to the truth, but alleyways to no where. And who wants to be no where? Is there a way to fall through the universe into nothing?

One day not far away we will be able to run planetarium software and look at all these planets out here. And then we will view them through deep space telescopes with clarity. We will get to know them. I suspect we'll even figure out ways to detect life in the minute amounts of light we receive from them. Further, we'll begin to speculate what kind of life exists there. It's hard to say, maybe impossible, what we'll do because science changes and we learn new things.

I found this interesting link about what magnification is needed to see extrasolar planets:
scienceray.com -
How Powerful a Telescope Must be to See Earth From 20 Light Years Away?...

According to that, we need magnification on the scale of billions. Since we cannot get a clear image of anything beyond 300x on earth (although software has been recently used), the telescope will probably be in space. How that's done or where I don't know. I don't even know if a billion magnification is possible. I just assume somebody smart will eventually figure it out. The strange thing is some alien out there might actually be looking at earth right now. Why not? S*** for giggles!

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Your argument would be, we cannot know for certain drinking this acid will be harmful for a human.. because there is no proof that a human drinking this acid will be harmed... because there is no proof of a human drinking it?

Another example...

I am holding a tennis ball 5 feet above the ground with nothing blocking its path.. a normal empty room.. you do not see me drop it because you are not in my room..... dont you know it will fall to the ground?

I’m pretty sure we know enough about chemistry and human anatomy to know that anything melts steel isn’t good to drink. We know enough about gravity to know if you drop a ball on earth (barring unseen circumstances) yes, it will fall to the ground.

However, we know nothing about life anywhere off of this earth. While I think there is life out there...there’s no proof. And that’s what this is all about....proof.

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Your argument would be, we cannot know for certain drinking this acid will be harmful for a human.. because there is no proof that a human drinking this acid will be harmed... because there is no proof of a human drinking it?

Another example...

I am holding a tennis ball 5 feet above the ground with nothing blocking its path.. a normal empty room.. you do not see me drop it because you are not in my room..... dont you know it will fall to the ground?

I’m pretty sure we know enough about chemistry and human anatomy to know that anything melts steel isn’t good to drink. We know enough about gravity to know if you drop a ball on earth (barring unseen circumstances) yes, it will fall to the ground.

AhHHHHH !!!! you fell into my trap muahahahah

The universe is thought to consist and be comprised of atoms, which are governed by the laws of physics and chemistry... I gave two examples which depended on laws of physics and chemistry, where a fact ( near certainty) could be guaranteed or believed to occur without proof.

Now, if life occurred on this planet because of the laws of physics and chemistry... and there are quadrillions of other potential planets like earth that are in the universe ( made from atoms, obey chemical laws and laws of physics,, within biological parameters) then can we not posit that life may be (with very good chances, odds, almost certainty) a law of the universe?

can we not look at ourselves as evidence that life can exist in the universe.. and that we are made of what the universe is... and the universe is extremely large... and so just as acid isnt good for humans to drink... and gravity exists... life may exist as a result of chemical and physical law in the universe?

Originally posted by ImaFungi

AhHHHHH !!!! you fell into my trap muahahahah

The universe is thought to consist and be comprised of atoms, which are governed by the laws of physics and chemistry... I gave two examples which depended on laws of physics and chemistry, where a fact ( near certainty) could be guaranteed or believed to occur without proof.

Now, if life occurred on this planet because of the laws of physics and chemistry... and there are quadrillions of other potential planets like earth that are in the universe ( made from atoms, obey chemical laws and laws of physics,, within biological parameters) then can we not posit that life may be (with very good chances, odds, almost certainty) a law of the universe?

can we not look at ourselves as evidence that life can exist in the universe.. and that we are made of what the universe is... and the universe is extremely large... and so just as acid isnt good for humans to drink... and gravity exists... life may exist as a result of chemical and physical law in the universe?

edit on 10-2-2013 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

I don’t think so, not unless you are duplicating the circumstances that lead to life starting on earth because this is the only planet we know that has life (see the word know?) I don’t know if the beginning of life takes some very specific circumstance or if it’s just some happy sloppy accident.

To a point, I agree with you...I think there is life out there, but you are missing the whole point here in this thread...which is proof.

100% of the solar systems we have explored have life in them.

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by ImaFungi

AhHHHHH !!!! you fell into my trap muahahahah

The universe is thought to consist and be comprised of atoms, which are governed by the laws of physics and chemistry... I gave two examples which depended on laws of physics and chemistry, where a fact ( near certainty) could be guaranteed or believed to occur without proof.

Now, if life occurred on this planet because of the laws of physics and chemistry... and there are quadrillions of other potential planets like earth that are in the universe ( made from atoms, obey chemical laws and laws of physics,, within biological parameters) then can we not posit that life may be (with very good chances, odds, almost certainty) a law of the universe?

can we not look at ourselves as evidence that life can exist in the universe.. and that we are made of what the universe is... and the universe is extremely large... and so just as acid isnt good for humans to drink... and gravity exists... life may exist as a result of chemical and physical law in the universe?

edit on 10-2-2013 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

I don’t think so, not unless you are duplicating the circumstances that lead to life starting on earth because this is the only planet we know that has life (see the word know?) I don’t know if the beginning of life takes some very specific circumstance or if it’s just some happy sloppy accident.

To a point, I agree with you...I think there is life out there, but you are missing the whole point here in this thread...which is proof.

The examples and thought experiments I already gave are not visible proof... but you still agree we can know things can occur without visible proof... Life is not separate from the laws of chemistry and physics... all the universe is, is laws of chemistry and physics... even though the universe is thought to be finite in energy/matter and duration... it is still pretty snippin big, and lasts a pretty snipping long time... so its a matter of probability of whether life exists in the universe or not... from what I know of the universe, its components, its potentials, its laws, its extent, its scales, its duration, its chemistry, its biology, its physics.. I would bet my life on it, that there is a 100% probability that life exists in this universe

The universe as far as we know is composed of a finite kind of atoms, a finite number of atoms.

if there are a gagillion planets in the universe... all composed of different quantities of variations of 150 or so atoms on the periodic table( also their ions)... all interacting according to the laws of physics and chemistry... a variety of distances away from their sun... of course there are a lot of variable, but there are also a lot of limits...
because there are limits/laws, patterns and order can form and be detected...

the begging of life takes a very specific circumstance and its a happy sloppy accident... precisely because the numbers are so high.. planets are orbiting around their sun,, they were created and composed of the elements they are,, according to the distance away from the star, and other variables like magnetic field of the planet, atmosphere, and rotation and revolution.. the elements of the planet will react with one another certain ways,, along with the constant energy from the sun pouring into the planetary system. so no matter the odds, if its 1 in a billion dice roles ( it doesnt matter) because on this planet, given the elemental and chemical composition, and influx of energy from the sun, its dice are being rolled a bagillion times a second, through the planet, on the atomic level throughout the area of a few square feet.. over the course of a million, or 10 million, or 50 million, or 51 million, or 51 million and 2 thousand , or 51 million and 2,001, or a billion, or 2 billion, or 2 billion 2,001 years.... it doesnt matter...

It is a statistical certainty that life exists in the universe... statistical certainties or laws.. are often seen as proofs..

reply to post by ImaFungi


Just because you're using big words like physics and chemistry, and big numbers like 2 billion 2001, doesn't mean that you're right. Even with your "statistical certainty" statement, you still leave the door open that tiny bit that there is still the possibility, no matter how small, that life hasn't been duplicated somewhere else. And no matter how much blunderbusting you do, that will never change (until PROOF is produced)
But in saying that, I also have a strong gut feeling that somewhere out there, life, and even sentient life most probably exists. But I can't translate my gut feeling into PROOF. Why can't you just concede that point?

Originally posted by okyouwin
The universe sure is big. Suppose that humans are at the center of the universe. All those sextrillions, that really big number you mentioned Is going out from us, and an equal number is going into us into the ultimate smallness. Then add in a couple dimensions that we don't ever seen, gotta figure there is life there somewhere.

Without knowing how life occurs, you can't say for sure that the size of the universe is a factor in making it happen. It's still perfectly possible that it only happened once. Perhaps improbable, but improbable things happen all the time.

Originally posted by greatfriendbadfoe
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

Just because you're using big words like physics and chemistry, and big numbers like 2 billion 2001, doesn't mean that you're right. Even with your "statistical certainty" statement, you still leave the door open that tiny bit that there is still the possibility, no matter how small, that life hasn't been duplicated somewhere else. And no matter how much blunderbusting you do, that will never change (until PROOF is produced)
But in saying that, I also have a strong gut feeling that somewhere out there, life, and even sentient life most probably exists. But I can't translate my gut feeling into PROOF. Why can't you just concede that point?

Those arent "big words" they are observations of reality. They are big numbers, but they are observations of reality, so you are not arguing with me, you are arguing with your ability to grasp reality. Reality is as it is, dont shoot the messenger. I only leave the door open for tiny possibility, just as id leave the door open for that tiny bit of possibility that you will turn into a pink elephant right now and grow wings and fly into hell and eat rainbows... because I have no proof that will not happen right now... I have no proof that will not happen in 10 seconds either, so i must leave that tiny door open...

I conceded that point in my earlier posts in this thread... if by pictorial proof, proof in a photograph... no proof... obviously...

but just like the examples in my previous posts above ( one about acid, one about gravity).. I proved that you can know certainties without seeing evidence or proof.. because this is the nature of energy/matter which interacts with its self in replicable and consistent ways and why such things as physical, chemical, and biological laws exist.

If you concede that there is overwhelming evidence there may be life in the universe... and only maybe the tiny door I leave open in case there is not... allthough it is not proof... this states that MOST LIKELY, there is life...most likely is closer to proof... then a little door. most certainly, definitely, 99.9% , unfathomable to be any other way, high chance, high percentage, highest chance, highest probability, greatest odds... are all better then little door... no matter the photographic proof...

North america didnt exist until Columbus sailed there... the earth was flat.... galaxies sprung into existence when we first saw them in telescopes... Aliens dont exist until we see them....

Because I have looked at the numbers, the laws, the scales, the components, their mechanics, the mirror...
My brain will not allow me to believe that life does not exist in this universe.. because my brain knows logic, reason, rationality...

but of course because i always will remain humbled with skeptically... I am 99.9% sure there is life in the universe.

Originally posted by Blue Shift
It's still perfectly possible that it only happened once. Perhaps improbable, but improbable things happen all the time.

1) It's still perfectly possible that it only happened once.

2) Perhaps improbable

3) improbable things happen all the time


life happening once is improbable

improbable things happen all the time

so if life happened once (improbable)

it is probable ( since improbable things happen all the time) that life will happen again

Originally posted by ImaFungi

I conceded that point in my earlier posts in this thread... if by pictorial proof, proof in a photograph... no proof... obviously...

That's all you needed to say.

I think most folks here agree that there is probably life out there.

Life on Earth is not proof that there is life elsewhere in the universe in my opinion.

You can estimate as much as you want with all the mathematical equations you can think of, but it's still not proof of anything. Proof will be when we see it with our own eyes or instruments, life, somewhere else in another environment.

Don't get me wrong, I really believe that we are not alone. It would be totally absurd if we were alone (and scary)! I'm a big fan of the Drake Equation and wish it was true too, but we don't have proof at the moment. Saying "The Universe is pretty much infinite and it's impossible for us to be alone" isn't proof either.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD

I think people have a hard time imagining something unique happening in a universe so large. Life happening on our planet just might be unique.

Unique... that got me thinking.... Is there anything that is really "unique"? I'm not talking fingerprints or snowflakes, yes every single one has its unique shape, but there are still billions more of the same thing out there. Is "unique" even something that is possible is nature? Is the Universe/nature known for creating things that are totally unique?

Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by k1k1to
they are out there...some fighting wars, others barley evolving, and some living in paradise....

Where? What are their names? What do they look like? How do you KNOW this?

it is beautiful, but with the majority of the population having your small minded narrow train of thought, they will never come to accept this....

My "small minded narrow train of thought"? That's rich coming from someone who cannot accept that life outside this planet DOES NOT EXIST TO OUR KNOWLEDGE AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME....FACT.

Yes, there are always possibilities, but there IS NO PROOF WE KNOW OF.

i guess Starbucks and the latest kimkardashian news is more important to you...

The nearest Starbucks is probably hundreds of miles away and as far as kim watshername is concerned, I couldn't care less. Personal insults just show your immaturity.

I do not believe you have a clue as to what you are talking about, but unlike the issue of life on another planet, you CAN prove me wrong on that if you take a while to reflect on the ignorance of the subject matter in the O.P.

You show your immaturity by CAPITALISING certain words and also by stating your own argument as FACTS while not knowing the FACTS either way yourself.

Erm FACT

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by ImaFungi

I conceded that point in my earlier posts in this thread... if by pictorial proof, proof in a photograph... no proof... obviously...

That's all you needed to say.

I think most folks here agree that there is probably life out there.

Would most folks agree that there is such thing as proof besides photographic evidence? (such as my two examples?)

Could you prove me wrong if I were to say: The purpose of the universe is to create life.