Surely Africa should adopt European/Western ideals/values or at least redefine African values?

I think the point is that the Africans need to make much better use of their resources. They could feed the world, provide the majority of commodities, etc. They better get together soon or they will be torn apart by the rest of the developed world.

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
I think the point is that the Africans need to make much better use of their resources. They could feed the world, provide the majority of commodities, etc. They better get together soon or they will be torn apart by the rest of the developed world.

Naive and ignorant. You and the person who starred you.

reply to post by HomoSapiensSapiens


First of all, interesting post. Also, additional apologies for jumping on the band wagon a bit too late.

Let me just elaborate on my point I guess.

When you said that Africa should adopt European/western ideas in order to develop into a more established continent did you mean it in an economical way or a social way?

But either way,
I’ll start by saying that first of all. If we are talking about the adaptation of the economical ideology (free market capitalism) that was greatly introduced in the 21st century and almost globalised after 80's. Then that is not something Africa should adopt.
I say this because; free-market has not really benefited to the growth of many of the economies in Europe or in fact the US. There is many sources that prove this point, one very interesting source which I would suggest you should read on is a book called '23 things they don’t tell you about capitalism'. The author makes out couple of cases about African development and why it is so slow.

One thing that made me feel sad was when you said that Africa should start fresh and forget about history. Let me tell you this. History, no matter how bad or horrible it was to the country or the continent, is important for people to understand their background, make them feel proud of where they are from. You have a look at the great patriotism Americans have towards their history. Without history, it's a bit like being born, not knowing who your mother is. Not sure if that is a great example but I think you understand the point I'm trying to make.

I personally, think that if Africa was to develop. Which it is more than capable of doing, it needs LONG INVESTMENTS in it, not short. I put the great emphasis on the long investments because if Africa is to fully develop it needs a continuous support, or at least to some extend till it sets up a well balanced economy, industry and formal government made out of Judiciary and Legislature that is of course elected by the people themselves, any corruption would be dealt in front of a higher court. How would we do such thing?
Well first of all, it is not simple, but it is worth trying. Assistance to countries in Africa should be given in goods, training and infrastructure. Goods, basic things like washing machines, cooking utilities and so forth, these goods assist many to have more spare time and develop themselves and their living standards. Training= Assist many Africans in learning new trades in industries that they can specialise in. Finally, structural property should be based in the form of housing and industry; this of course would raise the living standards and increase exports from the African countries (If they produce goods from raw materials or something on a similar basis)

I'll stop here before I mumble on further, I hope this helped or gave some sort of answer to your topic.

Dear OP,

I shall just start by saying that I am of African decent, having been born of a family from Africa. It is worth mentioning that my family was white, before I am accused of being an anti-European African nationalist.

What is African culture? How do you define a continent so large that it could swallow Europe, America and China combined and still have space for a few more countries? A place that stretches from just south of Iberia through dense tropical jungles, mountains and deserts, across the equator to the penguin clad shores of the opposite hemisphere, thousands of miles from Spain. From the great pyramids to Great Mozambique (it’s a place, not an adulation, look it up).

How do we define that? Do we define it in the simplistic, catch all term of just; ‘’Africa’’?

Because, hey, I’m too lazy to look at the largest continent on Earth as anything other than one large stereotype, easily fitted into my potted colonial history, to bother to see real people and real lives in the many, many different countries and cultures that comprise Africa.

Hey, you wouldn’t be the first to fall for the holier than thou bull#, it’s what made colonialism work. And that helped make, not exclusively and less everyday, but significantly, helped make Africa what it is today. When all of the major mineral wealth is mined by dirt poor locals whilst the profits are exported to the European and US capitals, profits on gold, diamonds, rare earth minerals. Billions in profit whilst the workers earn less than dirt and are shot if they complain (see the recent South African mine strikes. The mines being owned by Western interests, those who seem to you so wise, benighted and kind).

As for African (all of it? Sahara to veldt? Mediterranean to Southern Ocean?) National Socialism if you knew anything about European history at all you would realise that that doctrine was integral to Empire. Empire being another word for ‘‘we want what you got, we have bigger weapons. Give or we kill.’’

Do you really think that irrational hatred based killing on a continental scale, Africa being by far the largest continent on the planet, will make it a better place? And please, spare me the ‘’well at least they made the trains run on time’’ argument. If you’re biggest worry is how accurate your rides timetable is you are a worthless, selfish fool.

Some people don’t eat because there is no food. Often because land and water is bought wholesale by western supermarket suppliers to grow your out of season veg. So you can have asparagus in November and strawberries at Christmas people starve. That’s your fault, not theirs.

Aid fosters dependency? Western corporate theft fosters death and starvation. Aid most usually is a subsidy on their defence spending. Naturally they buy the arms from us and we write the contract. It’s a nice little business and one the everyday African has no influence over whatsoever. You could have an influence, write to Parliament, protest, educate, but you don’t. You prefer to blame the victim and live large on the profits.

The UAE own their own oil. Nigeria’s oil is owned by the Dutch and the British who, naturally, couldn’t care less about Nigeria because they don’t live there. The rulers of the UAE do live in the UAE. See the difference? And if you think China is advancing I suggest you go and get a job making iPads at Foxconn. If that’s your idea of advancing the human race I can only presume you enjoy feudalism and misery.

Do you really think we are so cultured even in the west? It is –7 centigrade in the UK tonight and some people here still sleep on the streets. Not by choice, not because they like it but because life’s crap like that sometimes. Bad luck, manipulation, the cosmic joker, can happen to anyone at any time. Even you. If your life is great, that’s brilliant in my eyes, but don’t be thinking luck didn’t play a bit part in that good fortune. Just being born in the west has given you advantages that 75% of this planet don’t have, mainly money and being born in the dominant socio-political power structure of the world. Remember, power, however large, does not make you righteous or somehow infallible. Just lucky in our case. The difference between you and I is that all you do is winge that an entire continent hasn’t taken up bankrupt ideas that you haven’t even thought hard enough to comprehend with any depth past a puddle.

Families kicked out in to the snow because the government changed the rules and the bankers robbed us blind? Tell the 3-year-old with no home we are so civilised in the west. Then tell the dust bowl African who’s had their land polluted for a thousand years by western mining and drilling that the starvation is their fault and all they need is a fancy uniform, a stupid moustache and some fascist ideas based on hate. Despite living in Europe you seem to understand none of it’s past and yet you lecture Africa and understand nothing of them either.

My advice is calm down, look past comic books and movies and read some real history, maybe in those book things, and educate yourself before you lecture almost half the worlds population (Africa & Europe). You never know, you might learn something.

Sincerely,

Africa.

reply to post by deadspider


Nice post but you are most defintely NOT of African descent you are of European descent. Stop twisting the facts to be trendy.

Apartheid (Afrikaans pronunciation: [ɐˈpɑːrtɦɛit]; from Afrikaans[1] "the status of being apart") was a system of racial segregation enforced through legislation by the National Party governments, who were the ruling party from 1948 to 1994, of South Africa, under which the rights of the majority black inhabitants of South Africa were curtailed and white supremacy and Afrikaner minority rule was maintained. Apartheid was developed after World War II by the Afrikaner-dominated National Party and Broederbond organisations and was practised also in South West Africa, which was administered by South Africa under a League of Nations mandate (revoked in 1966 via United Nations Resolution 2145[2]), until it gained independence as Namibia in 1990.

wiki
europeans didnt have a very good go at the first time around why trust that model?

what really needs to be done is have the smaller countries unite under ONE PERSON, ONE GOVERNMENT, then, maybe that country(countries) could actually get something f ing done for a change, but instead you have 40 somthing odd rulers all taking bribes, weapons, gifts, for the purpose of starting wars and conflicts.. kill all the corrupt leaders and instill one thats less corrupt, afrika will get off its feets and grow

reply to post by ~widowmaker~


Hence all the confusion in Africa today. Can Africa even unite under one agreed leadership? Can any one nation, let alone continent, do that in this day and age?

I believe a very sacred line was crossed in Africa a few centuries back and we are seeing the results of that violation today. JMO I believe you could even see this sacred line. In the words on my mother "don't go inviting trouble" when it comes to your life.

reply to post by SaturnFX


How many nuclear bombs have they detonated in the last 100 years? Do they conduct world wars or spend trillions on bio weapons?

Why do they need a wallstreet and corporate debt slavery?


The African continent is not in need of crony capitalism.

In fact capitalism will make it worse.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by HomoSapiensSapiens

 

But African culture isn't very good is it? Do you know what exactly African culture is?

Who are you or who am I for that matter to say that about another culture.

Ah, cultural relativism, it doesn't matter if the culture in question is all about chopping people up with machetes and drinking their blood, it is still, naturally, superior to anything that ever came out of Europe.

I don't know about the cultures Africa used to have, and how much is left of them, but a majority of Africa is caught up in tribal wars, religious wars, genocide, colonial ties, an unhealthy dependency on other nations, the list goes on.

And yeah, it's sad, and it's not necessarily their own fault fully, but cultural relativity is bull#. Some cultures are violent and barbaric, they're downright unethical in a number of ways, don't tell me all cultures are equal from an ethical standpoint, it's just not true, and if you think it's true then you wouldn't object to the culture of the Third Reich.. oh I forgot, that's a European culture and we all know how we're inherently evil, forgive me for my ignorance.

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
I suggest you research quite a lot of civilised west was invented by blacks, take for example shoes, knife and forks, open heart surgery, the computer and its advancement, and so on. If I were a black doctor I'd save tons and go back to Africa and start a school for doctors. They don't do this however. What I mean is Africa is in a grid lock. And lies spun and so forth. I don't think charities that claim to help Africa actually do. Cos they should be getting a lot of money. But instead they are still suffering. People are not being told the truth as usual. So Africa could easily produce the same level of academics, scientists etc as the west but the power structure doesn't want them to. My great grandad was a normal medical doctor and also a witch doctor , not a voodoo one, but a herbalist . He lived in Africa . It is possible for Africans to keep their tradition and adopt a western one too.

I especially liked your example of the black doctor going back to Africa and starting up a school of doctors. Certainly some do. But it is a very good - because, if you look at many African countries, they have the potential to be regions of big boom, much like the US in the height of railways and building of great cities and whatnot. It would be very empowering.

However, the reality of it is that security is a great issue. Why would I, being born in Europe with such advanced technology and society, desire to go to unstable regions? The truth of the matter is that self-interest does come into play. But of course, if there was some sort of great African consciousness and motivation, where every Black African across the planet thought "strive for the cause", "make Africa great", "ensure the supremacy of the Black African" - then we would see such schools being set up by Western-educated people, much like it occurs in China.

I guess I am being impatient and have impatient ambition. Maybe such things are occurring like China, but on a much slower schedule?

If I could, I would go to Africa and make it great - but there is only so much one man can do. And I prefer to live in a European society... :sigh:

Africa is a continent not a union. They are a collection of countries.

Two words. Foreign investment.

How long did it take for the US,China,and Russia to become industrialized?

Where there countries that invested in them early on?