Humans kill animals then they eat them(true story)

originally posted by: Skada
What kind of post is this? Forum Sliding with non-news about things that are quite obvious? Next will be a tread that we murder plants for not only food (oh my god, save the plants), but we also rip them from their homes, shred them apart and wear them like some kind of protective layer from rain and sun. We must stop using plants for our needs and run around naked!

See, what I did there. I can even make an absurd argument about how di-hydrogen-oxide is bad for us and must be banned, buried, and eradicated.

I really like di-hydrogen-0xide, really goes well with my coffee, I drink about two pints a day, just glad its fairly cheap!

a reply to: woodsmom

Thanks looking forward to trying some one day.

a reply to: Spider879

You're welcome!
It really is very good!

This thread title made me.... hungry.

Oh, also:

a reply to: woodsmom

All you do is talking about you and yourself, your feelings, your view on things, your way of doing things. "I", "my", "me", etc.. And yet you talk of 'proper respect' for the animal, but when you say that you're again really just talking about yourself. There's no place for the animal in your train of thought. That is why you are lying to yourself, but you don't even notice it. Be brave and just say it like it is : you don't care about the life of the animal.

You cannot have 'proper respect' for a sentient animal that you kill, disembowel, carve up, boil, fry and eat. That's total abuse of language. So you're either abusing language, or you're lying to yourself.

a reply to: gosseyn

Do you have answers to my questions of you?
Everyone eats. I'm not here to change your opinion, simply to state mine.

One other quick question, would it be better for the moose that is in my freezer to have run in front of a vehicle and died that way? Would it be ok if the waste of the animals life took that of another human being? Or would starvation be a preferred demise over a quick death?

And yes, I guess I'm a terrible person by your standards for feeding my children sustainable wild harvest. Should I stop fishing and berry picking as well? By your thought process my taking of the berries might endanger another animal in competition for that resource.

I live in direct contact with these creatures, constantly. They are wild companions. I do understand their awkward beauty more than you could ever begin to fathom. Have you ever stared one down from five feet away? I live among these animals. I quite frankly enjoy their company more than that of most humans.

I can have proper respect for an animal that sustains my life and the life of my family. What makes your morality the right way? From my perspective, my opinion is the right one. It is also the perspective of indigenous people for eons. Should the Inuit hunter not shoot the seal in front of him to protect your view point? I think not, he should harvest the animal which will truly give life in a desolate place. He doesn't have the option of driving to the grocery store to buy a bag of sustainably grown and harvested organic quinoa to eat instead.

I'm happy that you have found a healthier way of life, but demeaning others isn't healthy, at all. It would be just as ridiculous for me to come in here and say you shouldn't eat gluten because I have celiac disease.

a reply to: woodsmom

I eat meat myself, but I hate this hypocrisy of people saying that they "respect the animal". In my book, the first step towards proper respect for a lively sentient being is to actually let it live its existence, let it feel etc., beyond that point you cannot talk of proper respect, because that's just something you say to ease your conscience, and it has no link to the sentient being anymore. Once it's dead meat, you can piss on it for all I care, it doesn't change a thing.

I didn't say you're a terrible person, don't try to make me look like a radical vegan or something like that. I am saying you're part of that crowd that doesn't want to see reality for what it is and call a cat a cat, and recognize the dreadful reality of the human condition. Instead you look for excuses to ease your conscience. Again, I eat meat myself because I am weak, but I don't lie to myself.

Let me make an analogy : slavery isn't wrong, everyone is doing it and it has always existed, and as a slave owner I can have proper respect for my slaves, who are you to tell me otherwise ?

originally posted by: gosseyn
a reply to: woodsmom

I eat meat myself, but I hate this hypocrisy of people saying that they "respect the animal". In my book, the first step towards proper respect for a lively sentient being is to actually let it live its existence, let it feel etc., beyond that point you cannot talk of proper respect, because that's just something you say to ease your conscience, and it has no link to the sentient being anymore. Once it's dead meat, you can piss on it for all I care, it doesn't change a thing.

I don't know what to say this quite frankly.
This is where a difference in perspective is paramount. Your comment is the epitome of disrespect to me. The animal has given it's life, involuntarily, to sustain ours. That deserves the utmost amount of respect, not to be pissed on and treated like trash. That behavior is the problem, that thought process is the ultimate problem. I've been to feed lots and slaughterhouses. I much prefer food that I know has lived a good life up to the point of its demise. The moose taken with a single shot from the wilderness in which it lived naturally is much preferable to an animal that is treated like the steak in the store is. I readily admit I eat both, more due to the inability to always have red game meat in my freezer. I do know I eat a lot more fish then too.

And last I checked feeding a family is not akin to slavery, even if you happen to disagree with my method of doing so.

I'm unsure why you decided to call me out in a thread from August, but I will gladly have this conversation with you. It is something I believe strongly in and spend my entire summer working for. My Super Bowl meal will consist of moose, homemade and canned green chile verde sauce, liberally spiked with onions from my gardens that I grew from seed that I planted a year ago. And yes it's an awful lot of I because I work my buns off to provide for my family in the most natural way I can accomplish within the challenges that I'm provided with.

eating meat has been observed by nearly every other animal on this planet.

its a natural occurrence. that is a fact. and the term disgusting is subjective.

factory farming is harmful.

as humans it is not a feasible way to feed our overpopulated world.

creating lab grown food is a good alternative and technology must be developed so that it is safe for human consumption.

originally posted by: gosseyn


Did you know that human beings actually KILL other animals to EAT them ? Don't you find that disgusting ? They even have built factories to INDUSTRIALISE the process of killing the other sentient animals and chop them in small portions that they pack in plastic. WOW. At first I didn't want to believe it but I have seen the proofs. It's 100% true. They eat dead corpses of animals that are made of exactly the same stuff as them, and almost every human being find that this is totally normal. They even encourage their own LITTLE CHILDREN to eat dead corpses of other sentient beings, imagine that... I mean, what do they have in mind ?? Can't they just think for one second ? I am truly out of words..

Am I the only one that got hungry for a big steak reading this?

originally posted by: gosseyn

You cannot have 'proper respect' for a sentient animal that you kill, disembowel, carve up, boil, fry and eat. That's total abuse of language. So you're either abusing language, or you're lying to yourself.

My respect is reserved for the cook.

a reply to: woodsmom
I don't disagree with your method of feeding your family. I am making a philosophical argument here. I challenge the way you look at what you do. I know I am not going to change the world.

I disagree when you say that killing an animal in the wild is somewhat better or more honorable than buying a piece of meat wrapped in plastic in a supermarket. The animal you killed in the wild was actually having what I would call a fulfilling existence for that kind of animal, and you have stopped that, and you have wrapped that in feel-good decorum in your mind. The animals that would need mercy killings are actually those that are parked in factories and have never seen anything else but walls.

I don't ask you to stop doing what you're doing, but I ask you to at least see it for what it is. There can be no respect if you kill it. Once you've killed it, it is not a sentient being anymore, it becomes something else, thus you cannot have respect for it, it is a lie.

The analogy of slavery is to show you that saying 'it has always existed" or "other people are doing it" is not a receivable argument.

a reply to: gosseyn

Ok. I can accept this a philosophical arguement. It's harder to separate philosophy from reality when this is the lifestyle that I live. From my perspective, we went terribly wrong when the feed lots and factory farms were even initiated. Obviously, if everyone hunted and ate wild game there would be no wild animals left with our current population. I will absolutely concede that.

So let's look at "free range chickens" and use them as an example instead of the moose in my freezer. By using the arguement that they have a better life than those in the chicken farms, then they should be allowed to live their lives to the fullest, clucking and pecking around someone's yard until they die naturally of a ripe old fat hen age. So why the push for free range meat and eggs? Because it is healthier, because the animals are healthier and live a happier more natural hennish life.

The humanity of it comes in by realizing that by treating our food more cleanly and humanely that we are less cruel slave owners. Yes, I consider the farmed animals to be akin to slaves. They are bred, born and slaughtered to serve people.

By the natural standards of living close to the earth, a hunter might argue that the animal available to be hunted has chosen to give its life force to that hunter, for whatever reason. It is more of a communion between the forces of man and the forces of nature. People have to eat something. When someone only has the Earth to provide that meal, they respect the animals life force and the Earth from whence it came. They have an adoration for that creature because it now means that hunter's family can eat. Have you ever felt true real hunger? It's most unpleasant.

We can sit here and discuss how it's bad and though it's always happened it will still be bad.
I invite you to visit a far northern village. There milk is often over ten dollars a gallon and fresh produce is nonexistent. You can spend and entire months income on three or four days worth of groceries. Or a hunter can fill up his snow machine with gas and trek for days into the harsh winter wilderness. They will risk their lives to go and find an animal to feed their families with.

They also possess a sense of community. The elders and young ones are always fed. They don't leave them for the paid help to take care of. They provide for every member of their family and community. The strength in the natural way of life still shows in the strong communities and the way we do things now only weakens those communities. It makes it more attractive to the younger generations to just leave. Entire villages have lost their schools because the young leave. Then who is there to go hunt that caribou to feed grandma. In most of these places they don't even have the store with the ten gallon milk as an option.

So from experience and what I have seen with my own eyes, humanity is stronger within the people who understand the internal and external struggles to naturally feed a family. Hunting is not pretty. It's never fun to kill anything, even the fish flopping in the bottom of the boat. But the point is that it must be done. It's not a happy occasion that death happened, it is honored because the loss of that life enables other life to carry on.

So I argue that it is better to do one's dirty work themselves. And I guess I prefer free range chicken to an animal that has spent its entire existence wallowing in it's own feces.

originally posted by: inj3ct0r
Oh so you are a vegetarian and an extremely religious person.

Yeah......he probably eats tardigrades too!



Hypocrite

a reply to: gosseyn

Do you consider all animals sentient? It sounds like you believe this, but yet eat meat anyway. That's a bit of a contradiction. If you eat meat and don't care about it with the excuse that it's "already dead", then you are the worst kind of offender. What do you think happened to process that meat in the first place?

You are actively contributing to a market that fuels the demand for meat by slaughtering animals by the thousands on a daily basis in a very wasteful (and often cruel) manner. You support this and turn a blind eye to these practices, yet chastise Woodsmom who has clearly demonstrated that she does not support those barbaric practices when she can. You are the one that does not respect the animals. Don't try to project that onto others.

One can still respect an animal that they eat. You respect it by killing it in a humane manner and by wasting as little as possible. The moose is part of the cycle of life and part of the food chain. People eat meat. Animals eat meat. Comparing it to slavery is one of the most absurd comparisons I've heard in a long time. Slavery is what happens on the majority of cow and chicken farms, yet you have no problem supporting that. It's downright hypocritical to criticize the OP when she has done nothing even remotely morally questionable, yet you have by supporting that industry. Take a look in the mirror before criticizing others. Your argument holds no basis in reality.

Philosophy, sure... but I care about reality, not what ifs. Don't call somebody a liar because they respect animals they kill according to their belief system or world view. Just because you don't, doesn't mean they don't. Different strokes for different folks.

a reply to: Barcs

The most interesting part is that they are the OP, not me.
I just happened to be butchering a moose at the end of August when this was posted and agreed that yes we do kill animals and eat them.

a reply to: Barcs

I turn a blind eye ? This whole thread is about not turning a blind eye.

You cannot 'properly respect' an animal that you kill and eat. That's abuse of language. End of story. Keep doing it but don't talk about respect, that's just a comfortable lie.

a reply to: gosseyn

I see your point and I agree. This is not respect. How could it be ever respectful to kill any animal? Some peoples definitions of respect is wired....for me. But I don't judge anyone. Eat what you want.

Also related to this whole thread:
www.independent.co.uk...

... so much about turning a blind eye, e?

: )

originally posted by: gosseyn
a reply to: Barcs

I turn a blind eye ? This whole thread is about not turning a blind eye.

You cannot 'properly respect' an animal that you kill and eat. That's abuse of language. End of story. Keep doing it but don't talk about respect, that's just a comfortable lie.

While I properly respect your opinion here, it IS just an opinion. No abuse of language needed. We evolved on the earth. We wouldn't be here without using the resources of earth to survive, and the rest of the animal kingdom as far back as life goes has done the same. There is a big difference between respecting the earth that gives us life and abusing it.

Killing an animal for sustenance is no different from picking a carrot to eat, or chopping down a tree to build shelter. That's the cycle of life, no way around it. The only difference is that we can think about the consequences, while most other animals do it instinctively. People abuse animals and trees for monetary gain, and ignore this. That is where the issue lies.

I definitely don't try to force my views on others when it comes to meat vs plants, but there is definitely a difference between abusing animals for mass production, and treating the animal humanely. Yes, you can still respect an animal you have killed, and you have no right to lecture others about respect when you support mass production of beef and chicken (likely in excess).

Your argument is similar to claiming that you cannot respect your opponent in UFC or boxing. You simplify it to a catch phrase that you can't respect something you have killed. But can you really respect somebody you just beat the crap out of? Well guess what, people do. Respect is not universal. Respect is up to the giver, not to the respectee.

a reply to: Barcs

So we actually disagree that proper respect for a sentient being that is alive is to actually let it live its existence ? We disagree that the first step towards proper respect for a form of life is to not kill it ? When you kill it, you remove its skin, you disembowel it, you carve it up, you chop it up into little piece, you totally transform it, it becomes something totally different, it is not a sentient being anymore. And yet you talk of 'proper respect' for the animal ? But this animal doesn't exist anymore. So what are you talking about when you talk of 'proper respect' ? Well you're just talking about yourself, you talk of proper respect from yourself to yourself, how could it be otherwise ? It is a total non-sense and an impossibility to properly respect a life that you have taken. How can we even disagree on this ?

When I buy and eat meat, I don't lie to myself with thoughts of 'proper respect'. There can be no proper respect whether you kill it yourself or you buy it in a supermarket. I am NOT telling you that you should stop doing what you do, I am telling you there is NO respect in it, that is just a LIE. I am not saying that humans don't need to eat in order to survive, that would be crazy. I am saying we should all recognise the human condition for what it is, which consists of the capacity to reflect on our animal condition. And it is very easy to lie to ourselves, it is almost an evolutionary trait.

Your example of people that chose to fight for reason x or y is completely off the mark. They consent to what they do and they are actually aware of the potential consequences. They take informed risks.