"beautiful" LCA

To say the truth, I think the LCA is a really ugly plane. In the pictures I can see RUST, that shows how good the project is going.

Originally posted by drfunk
easily one of the must ugly jets to be constructed in modern times. The J-10 looks way better than that thing.

drfunk

As I said if looks could kill then maybe you had a point! The starfighter looked all sleek and "space-age" at the time..but now we dont want me telling you all the "indian" version of the starfighter story again do you?!!

Originally posted by COWlan
To say the truth, I think the LCA is a really ugly plane. In the pictures I can see RUST, that shows how good the project is going.

...couldn't find anything else to ridicule the LCA so now its 'rusting'...?? Lame, REAL lame!!

Well, looks are irrelevant. The stinkbug is not exactly a handsome AC, but it's effective.

The LCA was a good idea for India, who is losing Mig21's at the rate of one a month, they just got too overly ambitious in trying to do everything themselves. They just need to step back and rethink their philosophy.

Great looking airplane!! I love the smaller jets like the US Navy's "SKYHAWK". Gotta love the classic delta wing too. It really does resemble a small Mirage or F-106. India should be able to cram alot of these on a carrier. I would buy one, but it would be better if they could give me one to "beta test".

India successfully flew its first indigenously developed fighter plane for the first time on Thursday.
The test is the culmination of a 17-year project aimed at ending the Indian Air Force's dependence on foreign jet manufacturers.

The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which took off from a testing base in the southern city of Bangalore, conducted a successful 20-minute sortie, a Defence Ministry official reported.

A pair of French-made Mirage 2000 planes, drawn from the Indian Air Force, escorted the LCA on its first flight, with Indian Air Force chief AY Tipnis on board one of the Mirages.

Originally planned to fly in 1991, the project was beset by constant delays, with the sanctions imposed by the United States after India's nuclear tests in 1998 taking an especially heavy toll.

It was finally completed at a cost of 25bn rupees ($536m).

Military experts say it will still take at least a decade before the LCA enters service to replace the ageing Soviet MiG-21s, which the Indian Air Force currently relies upon.

The engine and the flight control systems on the prototype LCA were manufactured in the US.

But an indigenously developed Kaveri engine is planned for later aircraft.

Full story:news.bbc.co.uk...

There.Thanks for your load of crap stealth spy and any other Indians,it is just a PROTOTYPE,with many MALFUNCTIONS,which means it will probably not go into service until 2010.

The Chinese J-10 on the other hand,is being produced at the rate of ONE A MONTH,being a lot cheaper while able to do the same things.As for the Chinese planes being pathetic copies,look at your own damn LCA,It is a modified Mirage which is expensive and has a lot of problems compared to the J-10 which flies smoothly and is cheap.

PS:I had some other sources,but were lazy to list them out

[edit on 2/11/04 by W4rl0rD]

I have had an oppurtunity to work with Indians who were deputed to LM in the US. I have been in touch with several of these folks after their return to India.They have come to speed with modern Aircraft design. They now have full understanding of the control laws of aerodynamics. Last several years ago I happen to visit their National Areospace Laboratory (NAL) in Bangalore. They have a well developed program for Aerospace research. I was even impressed by their latest Shock tunnel called Neelakantan High Speed Wind Tunnel laboratory, they have got the latest equipment. They claimed that this lab was the third best after US/Russia. These guys completed their own FCS for their LCA after US denied a F-16 FCS. I happen to talk and meet the head of the Gas Turbine Research Center GTRE which is developing the Kaveri Engine for LCA. He mentioned that they had hiccups intially, and things have been ironed out now. Many different versions of Kaveri already are under development. Aeronautical Develoment Agency which is the prime contractor for LCA design has had extensive colloboration with Lockheed for some time. We infact were using some of the CFD code and composite manufacture software called Autolay from ADA. Some Professors from Indian Institute of Science have joint faculty positions at Georgia Tech and MIT which both have strong Aerospace research interests. I also happen to gather that their initial design for the MCA has been finalized. As far as I can see these folks have taken help in Areas they lacked expertise from leading Aircraft manufactures. LCA is a truely 4 the Generation plane. As I read the lit above, 70% of it is manufactured in India, may be become totally indeginezed by its production time. I was totally amazed by their futuristic Digital design studio which was setup with help of Silicon Graphics & LM Aerospace. They have followed a careful path towards design given their situation, lack of experience, funding. The results are phenomenal. They have produced five prototypes simply out of $20 million funding. My departmental funding itself is around $20 Million anually which is primarily in R&D with very little accountablity and tangiblity to the LM bottom line. I would not discount their capability to design and manufacture a modern aircraft. They have had delays being that they had to work from scatch and the lack of experience. The Intermediate Jet Trainer was developed withing 22 months. From LCAs design experience MCA should come out quite fast. There were rumors of having HAL build F-16s in India, and to outsource some JSF work as well to India. I dont know much about that stuff. They are working with the Israelis with EW and Avionics and have gained considerable experience in designing, developing and manufacturing state-of-the-art Avionics. They right now are colloborating with Russsia on a fifth generation fighter to compete with F-22 & F-35.

Good luck to to them. US infact has good relations with the Indians in the Aerospace sector. I see more cooperation btw the west and the Indians in the Aerospace sector in the future. Just my two words.

Alan

Originally posted by W4rl0rD


There.Thanks for your load of crap stealth spy and any other Indians,it is just a PROTOTYPE,with many MALFUNCTIONS,which means it will probably not go into service until 2010.

The Chinese J-10 on the other hand,is being produced at the rate of ONE A MONTH,being a lot cheaper while able to do the same things.As for the Chinese planes being pathetic copies,look at your own damn LCA,It is a modified Mirage which is expensive and has a lot of problems compared to the J-10 which flies smoothly and is cheap.

PS:I had some other sources,but were lazy to list them out :p

[edit on 2/11/04 by W4rl0rD]

Modified mirage? Then any delta wing aircraft we make is a "modified mirage"

The J-10 on the other hand is a rev- engineered f-16, fact of life.. they got it from the pakis.

And making 1 a month is so awesome!! NOT!! "breaking in " a fighter requires loads of testing and retesting. But nobody knows if the chinese have done that. They won't say. All they say is we got new jet. We mass produce. What are you going to do with all those J-10s if theres and inherent flaw in them . And don't tell me theres no flaw, the aircraft flies smoothly etc etc..because you cannot prove that. Why? No freedom of information exchange on the J-10. The only info thats been "released" is positive and "success oriented."

The 'flaws' you point out on the LCA are publicised so everyone knows. Mass producing an aircraft doesn't mean anything until there's a consensus that its proven and there can be no consensus on the J-10 because its not transparently exhibited. no chinese military products are transparent. Thats why you can claim them to be "hi-tech" because they've never been actually matched aginst rivals. Same with your armed forces' training, and skill level. No mock-exercises with other AF , navies and armies.

All I can say is 'unproven'. Unfortunately theres an international consensus on 'unproven' factor though, nothing else...

And thanks alan jones for displaying your faith in indian aerospace!!
I would like to know in what capacity you worked with the indians..

@ W4rl0rD
See transparency helps prove that something is actually what its claims to be. Unless you have something to hide...

[edit on 3-11-2004 by Daedalus3]

I'm sorry,but they are "pathetic copies"



[edit on 3/11/04 by W4rl0rD]

Hi:

My background is in CompScience and Math, I worked with the Optimization methids group in LM CA. I was at LM site in Bhinghamton NY for a while where LCA flight dynamics was being tested. As far as I can think the Indians knew what they were doing, infact they had to do everything on their own after they returned back o India. If LCA looks like a copy well most prove aircraft designs are Dleta winged like Mirages, Eurofighter etc. Delat wings are the asieet to make and are suitable for supersonic speeds, Double delta wings are good for large AOA. I feel the small size and extensive use of composites make its quite stealthy. F-22A FB is going to be a delta wing too. LCA could also fly without a tail, like the future MCA. The chinese have also taken help from the Russians, Israelis and even US with airfact design & manufacture.

Originally posted by AlanJones
Hi:

My background is in CompScience and Math, I worked with the Optimization methids group in LM CA. I was at LM site in Bhinghamton NY for a while where LCA flight dynamics was being tested. As far as I can think the Indians knew what they were doing, infact they had to do everything on their own after they returned back o India. If LCA looks like a copy well most prove aircraft designs are Dleta winged like Mirages, Eurofighter etc. Delat wings are the asieet to make and are suitable for supersonic speeds, Double delta wings are good for large AOA. I feel the small size and extensive use of composites make its quite stealthy. F-22A FB is going to be a delta wing too. LCA could also fly without a tail, like the future MCA. The chinese have also taken help from the Russians, Israelis and even US with airfact design & manufacture.

WHAT?An Indian aircraft is stealthy even though only the Americans have info about stealth technology that are used in aircrafts currently

I have shown this link to six person I know and all I have heard is "wow aren't those two the same planes?" To me the exterior is the same but a little shorter but that doesn't make it the same inside though. LCA is a plane with a good goal but Indians were over ambitious on this project.
Plus, J-10s are being produced at 3/month not 1/month but I believe it is at five/month but the government is hiding the production rate.

Originally posted by COWlan
I have shown this link to six person I know and all I have heard is "wow aren't those two the same planes?" To me the exterior is the same but a little shorter but that doesn't make it the same inside though. LCA is a plane with a good goal but Indians were over ambitious on this project.
Plus, J-10s are being produced at 3/month not 1/month but I believe it is at five/month but the government is hiding the production rate.

I hope that's ALL its hiding for the aircraft sake!!

Originally posted by W4rl0rD

WHAT?An Indian aircraft is stealthy even though only the Americans have info about stealth technology that are used in aircrafts currently

The sheer smallness of its makes it look like a bird on radar. Composite metals make it lighter and are more translucent to radar waves.

Also i'd like to knwo more about co-operatoin between the chinese and various countries like Israel and russia. Pardon my ignorance but i thought that the chinese claimed that they were self-sufficient in design methods!!..

Links to such info would help ....thanks

LCA's smallness plus RAM coating and some of its advances in EW instruments & KAveri Engine design will considerably increase it stealthiness. LCA is not a structural stealth as F-22. Advanced use of composites reduce radar sign. I hear that Indian swere interested in accquring Rafael Radar cancellation technology?. Here are a few links about J-10 development. You can google ATS fro more on J-10

1. www.jamestown.org...
2. www.jamestown.org...
3. www.fact-index.com...
4. encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...

I dont know much about J-10 FCS. I also believe several J-10s crashed during development. You can research more.

Alan

LCA's smallness plus RAM coating and some of its advances in EW instruments & KAveri Engine design will considerably increase it stealthiness. LCA is not a structural stealth as F-22. Advanced use of composites reduce radar sign. I hear that Indian swere interested in accquring Rafael Radar cancellation technology?. Here are a few links about J-10 development. You can google ATS fro more on J-10

1. www.jamestown.org...
2. www.jamestown.org...
3. www.fact-index.com...
4. encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...

I dont know much about J-10 FCS. I also believe several J-10s crashed during development. You can research more.

Alan

LCA's smallness plus RAM coating and some of its advances in EW instruments & KAveri Engine design will considerably increase it stealthiness. LCA is not a structural stealth as F-22. Advanced use of composites reduce radar sign. I hear that Indian swere interested in accquring Rafael Radar cancellation technology?. Here are a few links about J-10 development. You can google ATS fro more on J-10

1. www.jamestown.org...
2. www.jamestown.org...
3. www.fact-index.com...
4. encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...

I dont know much about J-10 FCS. I also believe several J-10s crashed during development. You can research more.

Alan

LCA's smallness plus RAM coating and some of its advances in EW instruments & KAveri Engine design will considerably increase it stealthiness. LCA is not a structural stealth as F-22. Advanced use of composites reduce radar sign. I hear that Indian swere interested in accquring Rafael Radar cancellation technology?. Here are a few links about J-10 development. You can google ATS fro more on J-10

1. www.jamestown.org...
2. www.jamestown.org...
3. www.fact-index.com...
4. encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...

I dont know much about J-10 FCS. I also believe several J-10s crashed during development. You can research more.

Alan

LCA's smallness plus RAM coating and some of its advances in EW instruments & KAveri Engine design will considerably increase it stealthiness. LCA is not a structural stealth as F-22. Advanced use of composites reduce radar sign. I hear that Indian swere interested in accquring Rafael Radar cancellation technology?. Here are a few links about J-10 development. You can google ATS fro more on J-10

1. www.jamestown.org...
2. www.jamestown.org...
3. www.fact-index.com...
4. encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...

I dont know much about J-10 FCS. I also believe several J-10s crashed during development. You can research more.

Alan

Sorry I dont know how I replied this many times, How can I delete extra postings?