Teen Charged in Fatal School Bus Shooting Can Attend School: Judge

Originally posted by Quyll

Originally posted by dc4lifeskater
If I were the dad of the girl this would be perfect so I can just figure out the time the bus lets him off so that I would be able to shoot him for killing my daughter.. Its no accidental shooting when a kid has a gun on a school bus. First he shouldn't have had it, second even if he did def should be at school or on the bus. He deserves life in prison and we wont have to worry about there being a next time.

Violence is not the answer.

What makes you any better than him if you did that? You killed my daughter so I'll kill you. It's not the answer and it's not the way things should be.

Human beings think that violence would solve the problem. It would not bring your daughter back and it won't make things any better. Taking his life is not the answer.

People must learn to forgive.

Well God forbid anyone ever put a bullet in your child's head but if it happens I would love to see how forgiving you are. I don't think that the father should kill him only because that would land him in prison for a long time and put the rest of the family under that much more duress. But no, forgiveness is not the answer, and treating this boy as a victim only insults the real victims of this crime.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Majiq1

 

That's not justice. That's revenge. What if this kid was being bullied to the point that he was afraid for his life (like that other kid in florida that was being beaten up by a bully and stabbed him and the bully died) and the gun accidentally went off and killed the girl. Nothing is black and white.

You are trying to paint this kid as a victim which there is no evidence of firstly, and second of all as I stated above trying to paint him in some way as a victim only insults the memory of the real victim. Is what I described revenge, yes, and sometimes revenge, and justice go hand in hand. If the father were to harm the boy justice would be served on him for breaking the law as well, but it would be a few years in prison that most fathers would be happy to take.

At very least this kid should be tried as an adult. A couple of years in juvenile hall and a sealed record would be a complete and utter injustice, and slap in the face to the victims.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

And as far as the Florida kid goes I am not familiar with the case, but if that kid chose to take a gun to school as his way of dealing with the bully, and a girl died then yes, he should be prosecuted fully, and also as an adult. When kids try and make adult decisions that go bad then they should pay adult consequences for those actions.

I wonder if a grown man walked onto that bus with a loaded gun, safety off, and it went off and killed a kid, would you still be so understanding, and forgiving of the criminal?

reply to post by Majiq1


His life has no doubt already been forever altered.

reply to post by Majiq1


No I am not. I am just painting him as exactly what he is a kid who accidentally killed someone being stupid.
Based on how the judge is treating him, it seems to me that others feel the same way.

You along with another in this thread HOWEVER are painting him as a ruthless killer or sociopath deserving of the harshest possible punishment.

reply to post by Majiq1


Ok, now I realize how pointless it is to argue with you. That was the most idiotic reasoning I have ever heard.
If a kid chooses to make an adult decision they deserve to pay an adult price. That is so stupid I almost laughed. What is an adult decision? It's so stupid I don't even really know how to respond. A kid is a kid, there is no such thing as an adult decision and a kid can't make one because an adult decision has to do with adult reasoning. It's impossible for a kid to make one.

the judge needs to consider the other kids first

is it legal to order home schooling or a tutor ?

it that's an option that would be my call

For those who took the time to read the actual story, the shooting was clearly accidental; the victim was even playing with the gun before and pulling on the trigger, according to witnesses, without the gun going off. Following suit, likely thinking that the gun wouldn't go off, the shooter pulled the trigger while the gun was pointed at the girl.

Do people really think that this justifies life in prison? It's an accident, manslaughter, not murder.

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy


That's what I've been saying, but apparently some people think he should be tried as an adult for some inexplicable reason and given the harshest sentence possible. It would be hard to face the parents of the victim, but I can't imagine charging this kid with much. The parents should lose their right to own a gun if the kid got it from them not locking it up, and the kid should get a probation and fine, but what do you really do? Also this kind of thing can be DIRECTLY solved by teaching kids firearm safety.

If both kids knew how to check to see if the gun was loaded and knew about the safety and KNEW you ever fired it or pointed it at another person even if you think it was empty then this wouldn't have happened. We would be hearing about a boy bringing a gun to school and being expelled and sensationalized, but the girl would be alive. We need to demand gun safety courses be taught. It should be mandatory for any nation with a civilian right to bear arms.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Majiq1

 

His life has no doubt already been forever altered.

So because he is sad that he killed her, and might need some counseling that is enough of a punishment right? It is people who think like you who have caused an increase in the Adam Lanzas of the world. Let's just pat 'em on the head and tell them it's okay, it wasn't really their fault.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Majiq1

 

No I am not. I am just painting him as exactly what he is a kid who accidentally killed someone being stupid.
Based on how the judge is treating him, it seems to me that others feel the same way.

You along with another in this thread HOWEVER are painting him as a ruthless killer or sociopath deserving of the harshest possible punishment.

edit on 31-1-2013 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

The harshest punishment would be 1st Degree Murder with a death/life sentence. I didn't say that he should get that, and from what I have seen of the case it doesn't seem that 1st degree is in order in this case. I do however see his actions as plenty enough to charge him with Criminally Negligent Homicide, or manslaughter and minimum. Tried as an adult he would spend about 10-12 years in prison, and lose his rights as all felons do.

I don't think that is too harsh for his crime, and I think that letting him off too easy will only show him that he can get away with acting in a negligent manner that puts peoples life at risk.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Majiq1

 

That's not justice. That's revenge. What if this kid was being bullied to the point that he was afraid for his life (like that other kid in florida that was being beaten up by a bully and stabbed him and the bully died) and the gun accidentally went off and killed the girl. Nothing is black and white.

I don't want the father to take revenge either, but if the kid brought a LOADED gun to school, he intended on shooting SOMEONE. If it was just for defense/intimidation, he would have brought an UNLOADED gun to school. The kid fully deserves the law thrown at him.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Majiq1

 

Ok, now I realize how pointless it is to argue with you. That was the most idiotic reasoning I have ever heard.
If a kid chooses to make an adult decision they deserve to pay an adult price. That is so stupid I almost laughed. What is an adult decision? It's so stupid I don't even really know how to respond. A kid is a kid, there is no such thing as an adult decision and a kid can't make one because an adult decision has to do with adult reasoning. It's impossible for a kid to make one.

Yes, we have laws that prohibit the carrying of a firearm by minors therefore he made a decision to act as an adult by carrying the gun, and therefore should be treated as one by the courts. You can lower yourself to the usual name calling that is always used by people who have no real argument but it doesn't change the facts. He acted as an adult by carrying the weapon in the first place. Even if no one was hurt he was guilty of felonies by having the gun on the bus. His decision to carry that gun, and his negligent use of it cost a girl her life. So he should absolutely be tried as an adult in a court of law.

Now just to be clear I will add this. His father/mother/friend whoever the gun belonged to (I can't remember if it was stated) should also be looking at repercussions for allowing a minor to have access to that gun.

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
For those who took the time to read the actual story, the shooting was clearly accidental; the victim was even playing with the gun before and pulling on the trigger, according to witnesses, without the gun going off. Following suit, likely thinking that the gun wouldn't go off, the shooter pulled the trigger while the gun was pointed at the girl.

Do people really think that this justifies life in prison? It's an accident, manslaughter, not murder.

You are right, it doesn't seem to be a case of cold blooded murder, and I can't see that a life sentence from the court would be in order, and I don't think that a murder charge would even hold up in court. I do think that he is guilty of Criminally Negligent Homicide, or manslaughter at very least, and should be tried as an adult.

Regardless of what some in this thread believe a 15y/o does have a mind, and can think for themselves. If this were a case involving a 10 y/o I probably wouldn't feel that such a strong punishment should be in order, but this is no preteen child, this is a boy that is just a few years from being a legal adult.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy

 

It would be hard to face the parents of the victim, but I can't imagine charging this kid with much. The parents should lose their right to own a gun if the kid got it from them not locking it up, and the kid should get a probation and fine, but what do you really do?

So let's say the courts follow your recommendations. What good will probation do? You have already stated that as a 15y/o he is not responsible for his actions, because he has no ability to reasonably think. So probation would be pointless.

More importantly this boy is at an age to get a drivers license. What happens when he is sixteen and gets his hands on a bottle of vodka and decides to go joy riding and mows down a pedestrian? Is he to be slapped on the wrist again? I mean the court would have already showed him that he does not need to be responsible for his actions because he has not turned 18 and magically had his ability to reason inserted.

I do agree with one thing you said and that is the parents need to be teaching their kids about gun safety, but they shouldn't stop there. They also need to teach their kids responsibility. Kids who do this need to know that they will be held responsible for their actions. Maybe if that starts to happen then more kids won't have to learn the hard way, like this one, what responsibility entails.

Originally posted by Majiq1
reply to post by Unity_99

 

Well you pray to whatever God you want for his forgiveness and healing, and I will pray to the God I call justice that her father catches him on the way to school.

Well I don't believe in the God they have coded in teh bible, the trap, for it seems more the one behind your idea of vengeance. I believe in the real Spirit of Peace and Light and Family and our own souls, Higher Self too, and have had prayers answered. Love and Goodness. Christ, metaphor or real, still gives the way back home and he also didn't stand for what they made him stand for afterwards, Rome. He told them who their real daddy was, not God but the opposite.

Prayers work. This world is like snakes and ladders test. It takes Love, Forgiveness, Understanding others, walking in their footsteps, Mercy, Sharing, Caring, Going the Extra Mile for others, to leave this realm.

Otherwise its Groundhog Day the movie, until you get it right.

And that boy has everything sad in his eyes, he needs prayer, love and help to recover.

Thats what earth is about: Family and helping everyone you can to recover from this hellzone and overcome the difficulties.

You don't walk away from people who have made train wrecks of their lives or others have made them either.

This boy is easy to pray for, there are some blood thirsty heartless adults, like some of our leaders and corporate heads that are alot harder, because they are like the Joker, dripping in the blood of innocents. In their case you have to reach back until you see the boy, like this one, and feel so sorry for his life collapsing, his soul being harmed, and pray for the child within everyone.

If you could have, but didn't, and only loved when it made you feel good, you'll be sorry afterwards when its your own Soul that is the taskmaster wanting to be perfect. Family/God/Goodness just forgives, but your own Soul, wants that facet of itself, cleared up, not faulty anymore. So we're very hard on ourselves. And we would feel really bad at the lost love, lost moments to help another, lost healing, the things we didn't do.

Unless this child personally hurt your family, where forgiveness could be a very long process, there is no excuse to not seek everyones healing.

Originally posted by Unity_99

Originally posted by Majiq1
reply to post by Unity_99

 

Well you pray to whatever God you want for his forgiveness and healing, and I will pray to the God I call justice that her father catches him on the way to school.

Well I don't believe in the God they have coded in teh bible, the trap, for it seems more the one behind your idea of vengeance. I believe in the real Spirit of Peace and Light and Family and our own souls, Higher Self too, and have had prayers answered. Love and Goodness. Christ, metaphor or real, still gives the way back home and he also didn't stand for what they made him stand for afterwards, Rome. He told them who their real daddy was, not God but the opposite.

Prayers work. This world is like snakes and ladders test. It takes Love, Forgiveness, Understanding others, walking in their footsteps, Mercy, Sharing, Caring, Going the Extra Mile for others, to leave this realm.

Otherwise its Groundhog Day the movie, until you get it right.

And that boy has everything sad in his eyes, he needs prayer, love and help to recover.

Thats what earth is about: Family and helping everyone you can to recover from this hellzone and overcome the difficulties.

You don't walk away from people who have made train wrecks of their lives or others have made them either.

This boy is easy to pray for, there are some blood thirsty heartless adults, like some of our leaders and corporate heads that are alot harder, because they are like the Joker. In their case you have to reach back until you see the boy, like this one, and feel so sorry for his life being collapsing, his soul being harmed, and pray for the child within everyone.

If you could have, but didn't, and only loved when it made you feel good, you'll be sorry afterwards when its own Soul that is the taskmaster wanting to be perfect. Family/God/Goodness just forgives, but your own Soul, wants that facet of itself, cleared up, not faulty anymore. So we're very hard on ourselves. And we would feel really bad at the lost love, lost moments to help another, lost healing, the things we didn't do.

Unless this child personally hurt your family, where forgiveness could be a very long process, there is no excuse to not seek everyones healing.

edit on 31-1-2013 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

I am not saying that this kid should never be forgiven. I think he should be prosecuted, serve his time, and come out hopefully a better, and more well informed person. Then the forgiveness can begin. I do not however feel that he should be slapped on the wrist and taught that it wasn't his fault because it IS his fault that this girl is dead, and he should pay the price for the crime he committed.

We are not talking about a young boy who got caught shoplifting or broke a kids leg fighting in a schoolyard. We are talking about a 15y/o who brought a gun to school knowing that it was illegal to do so, and used that gun in such an irresponsible manner that it left a 13y/o girl dead.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


What "accident"? He had to purposely bring the gun onto a school bus. That's not an accident.

he killed someone, he shouldnt be out on bond, he should be in a holding cell until his trial. Heres my simple reason. MURDER/MANSLAUGHTER IS ILLEGAL there should be no ifs ands or but's about this.

He's too young to own/posess a gun legally -but he had one anyway..im not sur what state hes from, but usually you get 8 months just for having the gun illegally and if it is loaded it is a mandatory year for every bullet.

reply to post by Majiq1


But you think "his time" is 30 years! And you think people come out of our prisons better? After that much time with hardened criminals, surviving, he isn't going to come out better. They never do. If you want to turn his life around you don't send him to a prison for any amount of time. He never had any intention of comitting the crime. He is no more guilty really than the girl. She played with the gun and pulled the trigger too, it just happened to go off when he had it.

If you send him off for a life sentence like you suggest by charging him as an adult he will be nearing middle age when he gets out and will have lost his entire life. Yeah it's sad that the girl was killed, but it was 100 percent an accident. I am glad the judge apparently has more sense than most of the posters calling for him to go to prison.