Love and Schizophrenia; someone come and give me a how-to

ok so...

I love someone with schizophrenia. I courted her when we were teenagers, she came to me and sucked me in. It was so sweet, for all of a week. Things became so twisted and warped, its probably not important to mention. So that had done its dash. It messed me up for a while, I got over it, life went by...

This girl has suffered from abusive relationships and home life, a miscarriage from beating beaten by a boyfriend, a bunch of terrible and unfortunate things. She doesn't like to talk about these things with anyone, though occasionally will open up to me... right before I get bombarded with abuse. It helps me to understand why she is the way she is, and I honestly don't blame her most of the time.

So as of some time last year, we began talking again. She was down in a hole and I realised I still care about this person regardless of the mess that happened previously. I had some idea that if I went down this road again, it would be messy, and that I would have to grin and bear it, without snapping and retaliating in anger.

She began to draw me in again with the flirting and promises of running away together some time. Me being who I am, was suckered straight in. She was with her abusive boyfriend of 4 years still and I didn't think that would ever happen. A little more recently, they got into a fight and he pushed her over and hurt her arm. Now she has a restraining order on him and the relationship is over. She often mentions how much she she is hurt by not having him any more, and how she has never trusted anyone else. Once again, I understand, or try very hard to.

we talk often, go to the beach together and have some nice times. I am not perfect, but I have been very good to her. Im not seeking to use her for sex or to tie her down and make her be with me only. While there are some beautiful times when she seems happy, the closer I get the more chaos is rearing its head. She will pick a fight over absolutely nothing, and I swear, nothing at all. No matter what I say, she says i'm being too emotional or I'm lying or I'm trying to gain something from her and she will bombard me with a lot of abusive crap. I've dealt with it well for the most part, all things considered. I haven't resorted to torrents of abuse, though I have pointed out that she is being unfair and I am not guilty of the things she says I am

She says she doesn't want me to love her, she just wants me to be her friend, so then I will try. I will listen to her as she peels back layer upon layer of things that trouble her and hold my tongue. Occasionally I will give her advice, this starts the abuse again. Then she will draw me closer, tell me that she's falling for me but needs more time to get over her ex and her current diagnosis of an episode of psychosis (she tells me these things, I'm no expert myself). She tells me not to give up. So then everything is ok, my patience increases 10 fold and I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. Then again, she will push me away, tell me that I'm trying to gain something from her and she doesn't want it, she just wants me to be her friend.

From my point of view.... '___'JFLksdfkljsdfk!!!!!!!
Frustration.
I try so hard to be her friend, but I'm abused for no reason.
Then I try so hard to be the perfect gentleman and court her when she wants me to.
Then I try so hard not to care when everything good I've done is thrown at me and my feelings are stomped upon.
Honestly, I just care about this girl. I feel her pain and I just wish for her to be happy one day.
Her friends have told me that she is always like this, that she won't be told advice and that you can't help her.
A part of me refuses to believe this. I've seen her happy, and she's absolutely beautiful. She's fine, she is connected with reality and deals with life well. But that is only part of the time.
I would not mind if were never got together in a relationship. I don't need sex from her, I don't need someone to look after me, I'm strong now unlike I have been in the past.

I just want to be her friend, though she then seems to be begging me not to give up on trying to be her lover too.
Today we just had a big bust up again, over nothing. She started to play a weird mind game and tell riddles, saying some very nasty things to me. Eventually I snapped and I gave it back in spades. It drove me right down into a hole and I didn't think I would come out of it. Then she called me up. Changed my mood in seconds, from one thing to another over and over, just to prove that she can manipulate me any way she wants.
She says I am like putty and that no matter what she says or does she can always win me back. I've had to be like putty, soft and pliable, to handle all this crap and not use force against force. I've tried to be yielding and not engage in mind games. She knows that she can get the better of me. She's done this to perhaps a dozen other men before my time that I know of.

So tell me, am I a fool for thinking I can do the seemingly impossible and stick by this person? That I can somehow sit through it and in the end, she'll find some happiness? How do I deal with this? Can a schizophrenic person ever trust? Can they ever go for a day without abusing and hurting your feelings? Can a person such as this have a meaningful friendship or relationship with another person? Will the mind games ever stop?

I think I know the answers, I'm prepared to stick by her anyway, just because the good times are so beautiful, and the bad times seem to make me stronger as a person

Someone please advise me.

Before you can help her she needs to help her self.

Her previous abusive relationship can half be sympathised with, but it takes two to tango, and she volunteered to be in that situattion.

People like this can need years of reflection to be able to rise above abusive drama, is she ready, and are you?

reply to post by ObservingYou


I am ready. She is not. That's how I feel. I know she does care, or else she wouldn't keep in touch with me. But yes, I think you're right, this is the sort of thing that will take years. I would wait years if I knew there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes I think there is, sometimes I think there isn't. This could just keep happening for years and she could get bored of playing games with me and find others to do the same with. She can be very cruel, and she may just enjoy the feeling of control over me and watching as I get hurt over and over again. Still, my patience has reached a point that even then, I still want the best for her

I swear i've been in the same situation. Just walk away. You're dealing with a sociopath.

reply to post by Donahue


the only thing is, walking away is what everyone else has ever done to her.
She says I'm just like all the rest, and I know that I'm not.
Do I stay because my little ego wants to prove its proud point,
or do I stay because I'm just that caring?
or do I take your advice and just walk away


I'm a whiny little sook aren't I. I just needed a place to throw this out there. Walking away is the sensible option, but I'm walking away from someone that just may need the kind of care and patience that I can give. Walking away would hurt me, and it would hurt her too. If I stay, we'll both tear each other apart, but maybe not forever?

if there is true love between you 2
you 2 are powerless to it

through time this will be tested
actions will out trump any words

I can tell you now, that's not Schizophrenia, not at all.

I live with a Schizophrenic, my mother, and that is NOT the symptoms. You're describing a Psychopath/sociopath. I URGE you to leave her alone, let her be. This will NOT end well for you. She's openly admitted that she likes to manipulate you and you're letting her.

One day she'll bring a big fella' to your house and tell him you've been beating her, then she'll watch as he rips your head off. These people thrive on power, not emotion. She's probably never 'felt' anything at all. That was beaten out of her, and now she's damaged. The best thing you can do is tell her to see a shrink, one that deals with identity disorders.

I fear for you. You sound naive and soft. That will work with some people but when it comes to someone whose out to get you (like this girl) they'll leave you on your ass with nothing but a fat lip and an empty wallet. Try making her pay for meal, or ask her how she feels EMOTIONALLY about a dead animal. If the response is cold and calculated, meretricious or venal, then leave and DO NOT look back.

There's a good chance she wont just 'disappear' and you've caused that, you may have to get a restraining order, this woman sounds incredibly dangerous and I hope you come to your senses.

Psychopaths are ALWAYS victims, they always come across that way but they don't feel, they don't love. They use and dispose.

A Schizophrenic does love and feel, they suffer and try their best to hurt no one. They are sometimes emotionally distant (but not emotionally dead) and can often stare into the distance for long periods of time. They might laugh at themselves or mutter things to themselves and lose their temper easily. You'll often see them chase something that isn't there with their eyes or act like they're smelling something that's not there too. They are EASILY helped though. They'll often tell you exactly how they're feeling because they don't like their symptoms. Psychopaths thrive on theirs.

You aren`t helping her by letting her act crazy.You need to hold her to the same standards and expectations that you hold your other "friends" to.If she can`t conduct herself in a manner that meets your expectations of how a friend should act then you are better off not getting involved in her problems.

reply to post by Tasmanaut


As hard as it may seem, you really do need to walk away. She obviously doesn't want to help herself because she doesn't see herself as the problem. She see's everyone else around her as the problem. Which could be part of her schizophrenia. My brother haves schizophrenia, also. So i can see where its hard to see the distinction between being related to schizophrenia or her showing signs of being a sociopath.

But to be flat out honest and blatant, this girl has no intention of loving you for the person you are but only loving you because she can take advantage of you emotionally. You are the only accessory in her life where she feels dominate in "her world."

The best thing you could do to help yourself and her is to walk away. She needs to learn how to deal with herself. She is quite obviously a mess and by including yourself in it you're only adding unnecessary negativity in your life. It may take a while to cope with but you really need to stand up for yourself. Not with words but with action.

This is only my opinion so take it however you like but to me i see this situation progressing towards a disaster for the both of you.

reply to post by Joneselius


I hear what you say, and I do suspect you may be right, thought one thing stands out. She is very kind to animals, she has a few cats and a puppy and is very sweet with them. I've never seen a person relate to a cat in such a way. We were driving and a hedgehog was on the road. she made me stop so that she could get it off the road. Whenever there is road kill, she tells me how bad it makes her feel. So she has an affection for animals. I know that she does feel, she is just very distant about it, and doesn't like to talk about it. She says she has a bottle, and its full of everything she feels. I tell her that I understand, she says I have no idea and cannot handle it. I'm not saying you are wrong, just these few points

reply to post by lasvegasteddy


I hear what the others are saying and they are speaking sense. I'm the kind of person that throws that out the window, and I feel drawn towards what you say

reply to post by Joneselius


you hit the nail on the coffin.

I study eastern philosophy, Zen, Taoism etc. and I also study Tai Chi Chuan. I have found these to be of much use in dealing with this, in a way that is finally applicable to a real life situation. In Tai Chi we yield to incoming force rather than oppose it. If I seem soft and pliable, that is because I am. There is great strength and power in that, if you can understand it.

I feel that maybe, If I yield to her pressure and don't let it affect my centre, I cannot be hurt, so long as I do not tense up and stay relaxed. I haven't done this perfectly so far, but I feel that I am getting better at it. Her pressure is also growing. There is an exponential learning curve here, I am learning but perhaps It is not possible to learn at the rate it would require to do the impossible. I do hear what you are saying and I'm taking it on board

reply to post by Tasmanaut


usually when you encounter a person with a severe mental disorder or psychosis something usually happens..

this is usually caused by traumatic events that occur during that persons early life. what happens is that the mind actually splits into multiple personalities to cope with the current trauma..

for example in order to survive the abuse, her mind has to shut down and put up a defensive emotional "wall" ..this explains why sometimes she randomly gets defensive when you start getting too "close"

somewhere deep down she is still there...VERY deep down, but before you get to the "real" her you have to go through different "layers" or emotional personalities..one day she might seem childish and playful thats her innocent side still locked inside her somewhere.. then she might become abusive and unreachable and this is usually done to people she actually cares about, its just that her brain doesn't know how to express her love in any other way.

i suggest you stay as friends no matter how much you like her. sadly this will probably get worse and might not end well for both of you. she really doesn't love her abusive ex. the only part she likes is the "abusing" .

be there for her. be her friend. but DONT try to figure her out. let a professional do that.because if you try to figure her out you will make her feel like she is some sort of freak

dont take the relationship further than friends, find yourself another woman or you might fall into the same deep hole as your friend, with no escape

reply to post by k1k1to


thank you for stopping by, friend. That made a lot of sense to me. The concept of a 'wall' is something I understand very well. I've had my own issues and my own psychosis from time to time. Pink Floyd's The Wall helped me through many a time. I too have pushed away my closest friends and family. I know she is there deep down. Its really not so deep or hard to figure out.

I don't want to get into it too much here, but I've had some painful events to deal with and I came to understand myself very well through it all. I've come to understand her and see through all the crap, through pondering on my own pain I believe I have a gift of being able to see a persons core. She tells me things when she's drunk and then regrets it later and becomes mad about it. She hates the fact that I can see through the act at times. I believe i've seen her, in moments when she's happy, or drunk and playing with the cats. Sometimes I think though, there is more too it than I realise.

I'm really just trying to be her friend, and I tell you true. She has got me down in a hole already, but its ok. I've been in that hole many a time and whenever I hit the bottom, I just fall right out of it again and end up back on top. I'll be fine no matter what, I know that. I can take the crap.

on the topic of holes, a peom by the great Townes Van Zandt;

The old woman finally caught me
Sneakin' 'round her cave
Her hair looked just like barbwire, boys
And her smile just like the grave

She asked me could I stay awhile
I said, I'd better go
She slid her arm around my neck
And sweetly whispered no

It's cold and dark and lonely here
As soon enough you'll see
I'm oh so glad you stumbled in
I've been cravin' company

I cannot stay too long you know
I left some friends at home
Don't you fret about your friends
Down here we're all alone

What about my mother
I can't just leave her there to mourn
You don't have to think about her
Just forget you were ever born

I'll disappoint my father
You know he worked so hard for me
If you have to pay your father back
Just send him some misery

I'll miss, I said, a girl I know
I can't just leave there to pine
She's still got plenty of men to go
I'm sure she'll do just fine

What about my little boy
She said, he's just like you
Let a few short years roll by
He'll end up down here too

Then her pale green eyes began to glow
She placed her hand on mine
She smiled and said don't worry
You'll get used to me in time

As her cold tongue flickered toward my throat
I spun myself around
Made a dive for the passageway
But the walls come crashing down

Now her eyes were the only light
My fevered brain could see
But I tore myself away from them
And fell down to my knees

I've come too far, I can't get back
I beseeched the Gods of men
Fame and fortune just laughed at me
Then silence once again

A whisper deep within
Embrace the God of love
I lifted my face and through the tears
I saw light fall from above

I hurled myself into the wall
I ripped and clawed my way
Through the stinkin', clingin' loam
Back to the light of day

I crawled out into the wind again
The sky upon my face
I heard the earth sigh patiently
As it slid back into place

Now I'm back among the ones I love
I'm loved by them in turn
And it's only on the darkest night
That green eyed memory burns

So walk my friends, in the light of day
Don't go sneakin' 'round no holes
There just might be something down there
Wants to gobble up your soul

reply to post by Tasmanaut


beautiful poem,

very deep

reply to post by k1k1to


oh heck yeah, he was the greatest songwriter in my opinion, not sure if anyone has ever heard of him, I'm going to guess probably not. Townes Van Zandt combined with insomnia, plus this girl, has resulted in me writing a bunch of songs myself. 11 of them in 2 weeks

Originally posted by Tasmanaut
I study eastern philosophy, Zen, Taoism etc. and I also study Tai Chi Chuan. I have found these to be of much use in dealing with this, in a way that is finally applicable to a real life situation. In Tai Chi we yield to incoming force rather than oppose it. If I seem soft and pliable, that is because I am. There is great strength and power in that, if you can understand it.

I feel that maybe, If I yield to her pressure and don't let it affect my centre, I cannot be hurt, so long as I do not tense up and stay relaxed. I haven't done this perfectly so far, but I feel that I am getting better at it. Her pressure is also growing.

This is the path I would advise, but you have to be relentless in it. If you succeed, the pressure in her will reach a point where she is forced to make a decision. Whatever that may be. She may break down and connect to you on a deeper level, or give up and find another victim.

I have been through this with a woman and it was a very slow process. It was a huge challenge, but in a way, that is what made it so attractive. I understand what you wrote earlier about how a woman like that can make you grow as a person.

If I read you correctly, my sense is that your attraction to her is on a deep spiritual level. Whatever the case, you need to stand your ground if you want to find out.

soulwaxer

yes, yes, yes! You seem to understand.
This path is a paradox, it sounds so easy and at times it is, but it is also the most difficult thing to accomplish. At times I have stayed true to it and balanced on the edge of that blade, other times I have strayed and fallen off it. If I remain steady 99% of the time and stray 1% of the time, I have failed 100%. I have had a lot of growing up to do very fast but I feel this is a worthy task, and this person is worthy despite the temptation to think otherwise.

Everyone person is worthy of being cared for, no matter how dark their past and how they have behaved some times. I am hoping that a little bit of unconditional love can go a long way towards helping this person. This is what I used to believe, then I believed that no longer. Since knowing this person again, I've begun to believe it again

Soulwaxer, please give me some advice here. How can I maintain the mind-state necessary and not compromise my position when she becomes hostile towards me. To yield is one thing, but there is also to collapse and to allow yourself to be controlled and manipulated. This isn't the path at all. I feel that when I have yielded, I have done so forcefully or I have allowed myself to be compromised. I feel that I must be softer and more effortless

reply to post by ObservingYou


I think your thread said it all. She was answering you... treating you as two different people would. And without long long term treatment, counseling and prob a lot of meds....you'd have to deal with both sides day and night. And thats not fair to you. Without help, your life would be in turmoil.

Good luck. It's not impossible.