Georgia man guns down immigrant after GPS sends him to wrong driveway

Originally posted by kosmicjack

Originally posted by randomname
the wrong thing to do is crap your pants in fear and start shooting every unarmed person that pulls up to your drive way.

that's murder.

No doubt.

From the linked article.

Friends who were in the car with Diaz told WSB-TV that they were trying to pick up a friend on the way to ice skating on Saturday but their GPS directed them to the wrong address. The friends said that they waited in the driveway for a few minutes before Sailors emerged from the house and fired a gun into the air. Gandy Cardenas, who was in the car, recalled to WAGA that the homeowner made no effort to speak to the group before opening fire.

“He didn’t talk to them, he just started shooting,” Cardenas explained. “The first shot was in the air.” At that point, Diaz tried to turn the car around to leave, but Sailors fired another shot, striking the immigrant on the left side of the head. The group, which included a 15 and an 18 year old, said that Sailors held them at gunpoint until police arrived.

That is just insane. He could have called 911. He could have stayed in his house.

And NONE of it would have happened without a gun.

This is the point that I'm trying to make!

Why did he come outside? Why did he feel that it was necessary to shoot the driver of the vehicle, but only hold the other three at gunpoint, until the police arrived? Why was the one deemed a threat, but not the other three?

It's right there!....

So this guy finds someone parked in his driveway, and rather than sauntering over and asking if they were lost and need assistance, fires his gun in the air?

WOW.

It's this sort of guy who gives ammunition (pun intended) to the gun control supporters, and he's not a rarity in America.

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
reply to post by xedocodex

 

A 69-year-old war veteran

This was all I needed to read. We train our soldiers to kill then we just expect them to turn it off after they return to being a civilian and expect them to never turn it on again.

Why aren't you blaming the GPS company for sending him to the wrong door. The gun wouldn't have been an issue if wasn't for GPS.

What's the saying "Gun's don't kill people..GPS sending you to the wrong house where the 69 war veteran lives kills people." It's something like that.

If someone arrives at your drive way for whatever reason you shouldn't murder them, that's why the GPS isn't to blame.

If the man just snapped, or if the evidence proves to be overwhelming, that the shooting was NOT justified, then he should be prosecuted to the letter of the law.

But let's look at some of the undisputed facts...

It was late in the evening. A carload of youngsters, shows up unannounced, to an ederly couple's residence.
There were reports of recent crimes in the neighborhood. Some sort of altercation took place and the elderly veteran allegedly shot the driver of the car in the head, with a .22 revolver, and then held the others at gunpoint, until "help" arrived...

Now, let's look at the unknowns....Language barrier? Low light/limited vision? Frame of mind of the shooter? Frame of mind of the driver? Layout of the scene? Witness' testimony? Accused's testimony? Wife of the accused's role or testimony? Neighbor's testimony? Investigating officer's frame of mind? Who called 911, first? What was said?

How on earth, can people look at ALL of this, and assume to know what really occured?

I'm listening....

Those "undisputed facts" do not justify anything. You can't justify this, it's unjustifiable murder. Guns shouldn't even come in to this situation, but if they do then at least just hold them all at gun point and give them the option to leave. Why couldn't he do that? He held the others at gunpoint, why did he murder the driver first? There are no excuses. It's pretty disgusting that you're trying to justify it.

When did I say that those facts "justified" anything? Did you even read my first sentence?
The point I was trying to make, is that we simply DO NOT know what happened! WHY are you so quick to condemn the man, unless it's just the perfect compliment to your obvious agenda?

Now, let's examine your question...
Why didn't he just persuade them to leave??? What would have caused him to shoot the "driver" of a potential weapon, and just hold the passengers at bay???

Think about it.

edit on 1/29/2013 by GoOfYFoOt because: added text...

He shot him in the head without any communication when the driver tried to leave. He shot an unarmed man without a reason. That's why I'm so quick to condemn him.

That's hearsay!!! There is NO proof, that there was no communication!
Unarmed? The driver was in control of a 4,000 pound weapon! Versus a .22 revolver...

Come on...You can do better. I have faith in you!

I'm pretty sure ALEC and the NRA wrote
legislation that puts the shooter in a perfect
situation to not be charged with a thing.

www.prwatch.org...

reply to post by GoOfYFoOt


Because he's a loony toon?

Because he was paranoid, jumped the gun, then realized he was screwed and better not make it worse?

There was evidently enough evidence at the scene to haul him and book him with murder.

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt
Wow....

I wish I was as good at remote viewing the past, as some of the posters on here are!

What happened to, "innocent until PROVEN guilty"?

You read a few paragraphs about what the Media and the police THINK happened, and you are ready to strap this fellow to the table and push the button yourself?

A guy, who is a Veteran, who has NO criminal record, who has dedicated his life, to helping others....?

If this was just cold blooded murder, then why didn't he kill ALL of them? Why did he hold the others at gunpoint, until the police arrived, if he was just a psycho racist with a gun?

And, WTH is a "faulty" GPS? Last I checked, it's a computer. It must be programmed.

Something is wrong with the whole story. It doesnt add up! A 69 year old, who is in fear for his life, hits a moving target with a headshot, with a .22 revolver? The kids in the car, go to school, locally, according to one of the stories, but they need an interpreter?

I think the police are afraid of some kind of backlash, from the cuban or latino community, and that is the main reason that they are crossing all of their I's and dotting their T's....

edit on 1/29/2013 by GoOfYFoOt because: added text...

He's apparently dedicated his life to helping others, but when someone pulled into his driveway he reacted by shooting a gun into the air?

The guy was an army veteran, trained in weapons techniques, absolutely could hit a moving target with a headshot with a .22.

Many kids going to school in the USA can't speak English.

GPS's send people the wrong way all the time. They can definitely be faulty. Just ask the BC couple who were driving to Vegas and followed their GPS, only to wind up in the desert. When the husband tried to walk out, he died.

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
The reason being is that you can duck and dodge and a bullet fired from a typical home defense gun is no bigger than the end of your pinky finger at the largest. That leaves a lot of room to miss a moving target.

Wow, someone needs to stop watching movies. That is complete and utter bs.

If they took guns away today this is what people would be facing tomorrow.



It doesn't take a vivid imagination to replace the airsoft pellets with something else.

Taking guns away won't stop violence.

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt

That's hearsay!!! There is NO proof, that there was no communication!
Unarmed? The driver was in control of a 4,000 pound weapon! Versus a .22 revolver...

Come on...You can do better. I have faith in you!

Why are you trying to hard to defend him? It's obvious that they were unarmed, the passengers have no reason to lie, he made no attempt to use his "4,000 pound weapon", the murderer didn't even attempt to talk to them, he came straight out and shot the gun.

This was a cold blooded murder, plain and simple. An old nutter got caught up in all the gun hysteria going around the US since the recent tragedies, the irrational belief that the president's men were going to come a'knocking and take his gun(s) away gave him an itchy trigger finger. Stand your ground, right? By golly, as a 'Murican he has the right given to him by God himself and his messengers, the founding fathers, to use his rifle to defend his driveway.

So when some suspicious looking confused brown people get the wrong address and sit in their car in his driveway waiting for a friend, gul'durnit, the Founding Fathers expect nothing less than for him to shoot to kill.

Thankfully, the police felt differently. This 69 year old man will spend the rest of his natural life in prison, will probably die behind bars. I wonder if it was worth it.

Events like this give responsible gun owners like myself a bad name. It pisses me off, this notion that you can shoot first and ask questions later, if you even bother to ask questions.

It's not the wild west any more, people.

And really this story doesn't add up. I am going to go ahead and say I think the kids in the car are lying about what they were doing there. So they were on their way to ice-skate and were headed to pick up a friend....strange as usually when I consider someone a friend and am going to do something with them I have been to their house before and know where they live. And I guess none of these kids had a cell phone to call their friend and say where is your house exactly, but they did have GPS? Something doesn't add up to me....I will be watching for this story on the news as I live in GA.

Originally posted by PsykoOps

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
The reason being is that you can duck and dodge and a bullet fired from a typical home defense gun is no bigger than the end of your pinky finger at the largest. That leaves a lot of room to miss a moving target.

Wow, someone needs to stop watching movies. That is complete and utter bs.

Really...which part? I am not saying a matrix style maneuver, I am saying that the average person with a gun will not hit a moving target if they are indeed running away, or even towards the shooter. And sorry....I did not include a shotgun in my "size of a pinky finger" statement....a shotgun obviously has a much wider impact zone.

reply to post by xedocodex


A similar thing nearly happened to some members of my family whilst visiting friends in Florida a few years ago. They got the address wrong and went knocking on the door of a guy who almost shot my 23 year old sister with a 12-gauge. She had gone around the back of the house to see if anybody was at home because there was no answer at the front door. This was in the broad daylight of the afternoon, not at night. My family are not Americans and were only in the US on holiday, they had no idea that they could be on the receiving end of gunfire for calling to the wrong house, where they live in rural Ireland, people walk right into your yard unannounced all the time. I guess they got a big fright when they realized how close they came to getting shot at. The house owner was scared too, and was repeatedly thanking God he held his fire.

I'm not anti-gun, I'm just glad my sister didn't get killed, she was lucky.

Turns out they were right next door to the house they were looking for too.

Originally posted by babybunnies

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt
Wow....

I wish I was as good at remote viewing the past, as some of the posters on here are!

What happened to, "innocent until PROVEN guilty"?

You read a few paragraphs about what the Media and the police THINK happened, and you are ready to strap this fellow to the table and push the button yourself?

A guy, who is a Veteran, who has NO criminal record, who has dedicated his life, to helping others....?

If this was just cold blooded murder, then why didn't he kill ALL of them? Why did he hold the others at gunpoint, until the police arrived, if he was just a psycho racist with a gun?

And, WTH is a "faulty" GPS? Last I checked, it's a computer. It must be programmed.

Something is wrong with the whole story. It doesnt add up! A 69 year old, who is in fear for his life, hits a moving target with a headshot, with a .22 revolver? The kids in the car, go to school, locally, according to one of the stories, but they need an interpreter?

I think the police are afraid of some kind of backlash, from the cuban or latino community, and that is the main reason that they are crossing all of their I's and dotting their T's....

edit on 1/29/2013 by GoOfYFoOt because: added text...

He's apparently dedicated his life to helping others, but when someone pulled into his driveway he reacted by shooting a gun into the air?

The guy was an army veteran, trained in weapons techniques, absolutely could hit a moving target with a headshot with a .22.

Many kids going to school in the USA can't speak English.

GPS's send people the wrong way all the time. They can definitely be faulty. Just ask the BC couple who were driving to Vegas and followed their GPS, only to wind up in the desert. When the husband tried to walk out, he died.

Did he admit to firing the "warning" shot? I didn't see that anywhere...

You can't just assume that the fatal shot was intentional! That's a tough shot for a much younger man with a more accurate weapon.

My point with the language comment, was that if there was a barrier between the witnesses and the investigators,
then a translator might just add to it! Spanish has many, many dialects! And, I would understand if they were much younger, but they were teenagers. And the article stated that the deceased had only been in the US for a short time. It didn't mention the status of the witnesses.

I've seen GPS's that were not properly updated, that would show roads that weren't there, and vice-versa. But, a GPS is a tool! I would never put my complete faith in a tool. Especially, one that is so prone to error. I just noticed how the articles tried to downplay how the kids ended up at the gentleman's residence.

reply to post by benrl

OH wait thats because the majority of private gun owners are responsible and "sane"

You have any proof of that?

Go ahead, ask people why they own a gun on this board. You will get some very common answers of "The cops won't get there in time if some thugs show up to my house"...or even the more illogical and paranoid "I have my guns to fight off the Government".

Yes...a lot of gun owners are paranoid...everyone is out to get them, and they are Rambo.

There was zero reason for this man to start firing at a car parked in his driveway. Even if they kids got out of the car and went to knock on the door...still no reason to bring a gun in the situation at all.

I have ample proof that many gun owners are extremely paranoid, what is your proof that most of them are "sane"?

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt

That's hearsay!!! There is NO proof, that there was no communication!
Unarmed? The driver was in control of a 4,000 pound weapon! Versus a .22 revolver...

Come on...You can do better. I have faith in you!

Why are you trying to hard to defend him? It's obvious that they were unarmed, the passengers have no reason to lie, he made no attempt to use his "4,000 pound weapon", the murderer didn't even attempt to talk to them, he came straight out and shot the gun.

I'm trying to defend LOGIC! And, the rule of LAW!

Why are you so quick to condemn him? The only thing that is obvious, is that a young man is dead! And, a 69 year old man is in jail!
How can you be so sure, that this story is cut and dried?
Were you there?

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
Your wasting your time OP.

If Ive learnt anything from this site its that gun owners dont care and everyone else already knows.

If your American join whatever you have in the way of the Anti NRA, if your not American just be thankful there arent a 100+ million armed extremists walking around your country.

Telling armed Yanks guns are bad is like telling a hardcore Muslim that the Koran is BS, best case scenario is a pointless argument with someone who has made up their mind regardless of common sense.

S&F anyway

Yes, I am an American and I'm doing everything within my Constitutional power to make sure some logical gun control gets passed.

I know it seems like a futile action, but one of the things those of us that see the errors of wanting to live in the Wild West is to make sure we point out whenever someone is gunned down for absolutely no reason except that gun owners are paranoid and think everyone that pulls up in their driveway, or is walking in their neighborhood with a hoodie, or knocks on their door is out to kil them.

This happens more than people talk about...and even when it is brought up (as you see here) all the pro-gun people defend the shooter and make excuses. Little do they know, this just gives more reasons for gun control.

reply to post by retirednature

Extreme illogical paranoia is not common among gun owners.

Sure seems like it is.

Gun owners are very adamant about wanting to defend themselves from some unknown boogeyman....robber, terrorist, government, invading Russians...you name it....they are extremely paranoid about a completely unknown person plotting to kill them.

Agreed, and every responsible gun owner knows this. Just because an individual owns or carries a gun, does not imply some notion that to "shoot them" is the answer. Not worth addressing further.

This makes me laugh, there most not be many responsible gun owners...because whenever there is a gun topic...they answer seems to always end up being "shoot them".

And even when the person does shoot them, but doesn't kill them....they usually comment about killing them next time.

Why choose this story, and make a 'gun control' hit piece out of it?

Gun Control is an important topic and it is currently a very hot topic, why shouldn't we discuss it?

Why is it that you and other pro-gun folks want to suppress stories like this?

I don't think anyone is trying to suppress the story. The fact is we don't have the facts. The anti-gun crew is jumping on this story from only reading a very brief news blurb about it and it is completely one-sided. If you really want to make a post about this story without knowing any of the facts then you should expect the reaction that has occurred.

reply to post by xedocodex


Have not waded through the whole thread, so if this idea has been brought up I'm sorry for repeating it.

This kind of incident puts forth the the idea that we need more gun ownership in America. Just think if the wrong GPS guy and friends had been armed then upon seeing the old guy approach their car , they then could have defended themselves by blowing away the old guy. After a neighbor seeing the above action would take some shots at the Cubans, with the Cubans firing back, maybe another dead neighbor and a few Cubans. If such a thing happened, under the 'no retreat' defense, who would be at fault if anyone? The GPS maker?